[minavanhelsing]

He and my ENFP are going to tear each other limb from limb sometime soon because they both always get really emotionally invested in their arguments and resort to calling one another names. She hates how idealistic he is, and he's hurt by her bluntness. They're both easily frustrated and easily hurt.

It doesn't really work to explain to them that "it's just politics and what's the big deal, damnit?" because that coolness seems to be more of an INTJ-thing.

Pretty much my/our entire group of (mostly mutual) friends thinks he's too clingy. (Hey, I don't really think so, and I'm the girlfriend, here, aren't I?) It's difficult and frustrating to explain that he means well, has a good heart, and just cares about me a very great deal. According to them, it looks like he thinks they're not close to me, as well. (I honestly don't think that's the case, and it's not like he's stopping me from seeing them or anything; he just tends to tag along when I do, and I've given the okay. Because I'm an insensitive NT, I wish my friends would just tell me when they're not okay with him being there and not make me try to do emotional guesswork.) And I wish he would be a little more diplomatic when he argues with my friends. Argh.

I'm about ready to go into one of my infrequent fits of INTJ-style anger and smack everyone within reach. Has anyone ever had a situation like this and what do I do?

 

[Nexus6]

He and my ENFP are going to tear each other limb from limb sometime soon because they both always get really emotionally invested in their arguments and resort to calling one another names. She hates how idealistic he is, and he's hurt by her bluntness. They're both easily frustrated and easily hurt.

It doesn't really work to explain to them that "it's just politics and what's the big deal, damnit?" because that coolness seems to be more of an INTJ-thing.

Pretty much my/our entire group of (mostly mutual) friends thinks he's too clingy. (Hey, I don't really think so, and I'm the girlfriend, here, aren't I?) It's difficult and frustrating to explain that he means well, has a good heart, and just cares about me a very great deal. According to them, it looks like he thinks they're not close to me, as well. (I honestly don't think that's the case, and it's not like he's stopping me from seeing them or anything; he just tends to tag along when I do, and I've given the okay. Because I'm an insensitive NT, I wish my friends would just tell me when they're not okay with him being there and not make me try to do emotional guesswork.) And I wish he would be a little more diplomatic when he argues with my friends. Argh.

I'm about ready to go into one of my infrequent fits of INTJ-style anger and smack everyone within reach. Has anyone ever had a situation like this and what do I do?

Hm my closest friend is an ENFJ, some people may term behavior as "clingy" which is actually just an ENFJ being emotionally invested. When my friend cares about people, she looks after them, checks in on them. It's not clingy in my opinion though, it's caring. ENFJs also have their opinions and will stand by them, so perhaps just decide not to discuss politics. I have a close INTJ friend as well who disagreed with my other friend, the ENFJ, and I was often in the middle of a political dispute. They are adults, I don't let it affect me.

Also, since when does an INTJ care what the "group" thinks? :wink:

 

[minavanhelsing]

Hm my closest friend is an ENFJ, some people may term behavior as "clingy" which is actually just an ENFJ being emotionally invested, When my friend cares about people, she looks after them, checks in on them. It's not clingy in my opinion though, it's caring. ENFJs also have their opinions and will stand by them, so perhaps just decide not to discuss politics. I have a close INTJ friend as well who disagreed with my other friend, the ENFJ, and I was often in the middle of a political dispute. They are adults, I don't let it affect me.

Also, since when does an INTJ care what the "group" thinks? :wink:

I don't care what they think; it's their constant childish bickering that's getting on my nerves. If they're going to try to get me to participate or choose sides, then I'm just going to walk away---and then I'd find myself with no people skills and in need of a new boyfriend and friends. xD I really do care about these people and am trying to get over my inclination to say "Screw this; this is childish." Unfortunately, I don't have many natural skills in the "smooting-things-over" department. I did say, in a joking voice, "Guys, please never discuss politics again" and I've been trying to get each of them to take a look at the way the other person thinks. ...Unfortunately, this seems to be more of an INTJ skill than an ENFP or ENFJ one. I get responses like, "...Well, that way of thinking is stupid. He/she should stop."

The point is that, stupid as it may be, the other person is not going to just stop because it's the fundamental way they are. :crazy:

AAAAAHHHHH.

And thanks for commenting on him being emotionally invested...I've been trying to explain to others that that's just the ENFJ way of showing he cares and not an intentional desire to be obnoxious or take me away from other people.

 

[Silas the Idealist]

He and my ENFP are going to tear each other limb from limb sometime soon because they both always get really emotionally invested in their arguments and resort to calling one another names. She hates how idealistic he is, and he's hurt by her bluntness. They're both easily frustrated and easily hurt.

It doesn't really work to explain to them that "it's just politics and what's the big deal, damnit?" because that coolness seems to be more of an INTJ-thing.

Pretty much my/our entire group of (mostly mutual) friends thinks he's too clingy. (Hey, I don't really think so, and I'm the girlfriend, here, aren't I?) It's difficult and frustrating to explain that he means well, has a good heart, and just cares about me a very great deal. According to them, it looks like he thinks they're not close to me, as well. (I honestly don't think that's the case, and it's not like he's stopping me from seeing them or anything; he just tends to tag along when I do, and I've given the okay. Because I'm an insensitive NT, I wish my friends would just tell me when they're not okay with him being there and not make me try to do emotional guesswork.) And I wish he would be a little more diplomatic when he argues with my friends. Argh.

I'm about ready to go into one of my infrequent fits of INTJ-style anger and smack everyone within reach. Has anyone ever had a situation like this and what do I do?

Who throws the first punch when it comes to emotional blows?

 

[minavanhelsing]

Who throws the first punch when it comes to emotional blows?

The problem is that I'm never there for the actual arguments, so I don't know. =/ I would say that the term "emotional blow" is subjective when it comes to them. She (the ENFP) claims it's him, because when they're arguing, he uses value judgements and takes things personally--and consequently phrases his counterarguments in a personal manner. He (the ENFJ) claims it's her right off the bat because of her blunt and somewhat caustic manner of discussion...but then again, he takes emotional hits where she didn't intend to make emotional hits. They're both over-sensitive! What the heck! xD

So, I would say both of them, depending on your version of "emotional blows". The ENFJ is the first to resort to actual illogical insults, but the ENFP is the first to phrase logical statements in what one might term an insulting manner. I might also add that the ENFJ doesn't see his statements as insults, just value-based assessments of her behavior, which insult her because they aren't based in the actual facts of her arguments. The ENFP doesn't see her delivery as insulting; she just believes that he needs to "grow up" and focus on the practical instead of the personal.

...Wow, I'm making them sound like a lot worse people than they really are. They bring out the worst in each other sometimes. ^.^

 

[Silas the Idealist]

...Wow, I'm making them sound like a lot worse people than they really are. They bring out the worst in each other sometimes. ^.^

And that's okay. Have they actually sat down and had this conversation with someone moderating it? I think each of them knowing that they mean no harm and that it's simply a conversation, might do them some good. From what you've stated, it doesn't sound like they genuinely hate eachother, it just sounds like they're miscommunicating emotions quite frequently.

 

[Jojo]

How long have you been going out? I think sometimes we just grow on people. I always either you hate then grow to like me or you like me from the start no middle ground.

 

[minavanhelsing]

And that's okay. Have they actually sat down and had this conversation with someone moderating it? I think each of them knowing that they mean no harm and that it's simply a conversation, might do them some good. From what you've stated, it doesn't sound like they genuinely hate eachother, it just sounds like they're miscommunicating emotions quite frequently.

That's just it...They always do this whenever they're unsupervised! xD I don't like being with them both at the same time anymore, because when I try to calm things down and stop them from arguing, they just end up accusing each other of making me unhappy...which is annoying...because it's both of them. So I'm thinking the solution may be to tell them I'm not going to pick a side and keep trying to explain that the other really doesn't mean any harm? Does this sound like it will work on NFs at all? -has no idea how the heck Feelers function- :crazy:

How long have you been going out? I think sometimes we just grow on people. I always either you hate then grow to like me or you like me from the start no middle ground.

We've been "together" for two months--and been called anything from "adorable" to "disgusting" by various parties--but we've known each other a lot longer than that. Come to think of it, we didn't like each other at all at first, but then we grew to respect one another. xD

My group of friends and I have known each other for about six years, and we've all known him about three years. I think the situation is deteriorating rather than getting better. =/

 

[Jojo]

Well it sounds like your ENFP friend is over protective which is fair but Your friend in my opinion is exceeding their boundary. I would suspect your ENFJ may feel threatened by them. I think ENFJ need affirmation and insured loyalty. Not choosing our side may give us a sense of abandonment and no loyalty. We need positive reinforcements in a relationship which can label us high maintainence. I will bet you 5 gold that he feels you should side with him more because he is your bf.

In this case, may I recommend a nice game of laser tag if you have one. 1. You'll have fun together 2. You can shoot the hell out of each other and no one gets hurt.

 

[SuperDuperMan]

For me, I'd kind of twist words and try to re-manipulate them only because they're trying to get me to do something I don't really want to be involved in or if I'm not getting something that I think I deserve if I go along with their scheming. If I can't, I just pretty much walk away.

Which is also why FJs may dislike TPs in this sense.

 

[Silas the Idealist]

I think letting them know that both of them are making you feel upset and unhappy would work pretty well. At least for the ENFJ. I know that I've been in situations like that before, where I'd want to "protect" someone way too much, and what would end up happening was that I was doing more harm than good. It took the person distancing themselves from me for a little bit to realize it.

 

[minavanhelsing]

Ah, but the problem is I always feel so guilty letting my ENFJ know I'm unhappy. It's something I use sparingly to say the least. xD Even a concerned frown when he tells me he's sick makes him anxious to make sure I'm happy again. It's so sweet and endearing--but sometimes it makes me feel manipulative when I'm really not being manipulative.

Thanks for all the input, guys. They realized that she was arguing facts and he was arguing principles and made up with each other. He says he'll try not to argue about politics with her if it makes me unhappy (but principles are still the most important!), and she says that she won't argue with him if he doesn't say stupid things (but facts are still the most important!).

I just shook my head at them. ^.^

 

[Shadow1980]

Good to hear people are passionate enough about politics to be fighting. Even if it probably means they are immature. Sounds like they need to grow up.