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Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?

The drive for mastery, fulfilling my own personal image of success, and freedom to assert myself as I please. I look for security in my beliefs and actions.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?

I want to be successful enough to have ample free time for my passions.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?

I don't want to be bitter about my failures. Honesty is an important virtue. Acceptance about my position in life is intolerable until I know I'm unable to change it.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?

I fear waking up and being known as someone who knows little. I fear losing those I care for most.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?

As a person with rational ideas. I want other to value my input and to take my thoughts seriously. I see myself as a work in progress, always.


6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

I feel my best when I am unchallenged in my view points. I feel sick every time my worldview is broken. (Which isn't a bad thing to be honest. I don't mind a challenge, but some topics just make me questions my entire basis for thought) This sounds so petty.


7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.

Anger: Explosive and Violent
Shame: Private, a rare event, something I mask in public
Anxiety: When I feel unable to explain my ideas or I am being tested mentally or physically.


8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.

Stress: I take it like a champ. I tend to go philosophical. Tell myself I'd be weak without stress. If it becomes too overwhelming I'll avoid it. Look for a good time to get my mind off things.

Change: Well, if it's positive? I'll be thankful and fairly excited. For negative change see the part about anger above.

Conflict: I tend to dislike conflict some times. If I'm not very confidence in my actions I'll tremble a lot during conflict. If I walk into a situation fully supportive of my position I feed off the conflict.


9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?

Authority: Like all humans, I tend to support authority if I believe their methods are logical and humane. If I have a disagreement with authority I'll be very outspoken about it. I'll do my best to not surrender to the iron fist by any means.

Power: I'm not sure I trust myself enough to be in control of too many lives. I'm not very receptive to the whim of popular opinion so I'm afraid I'd turn into a dictator too fast for my soul to catch up.




10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?

The world is a cold place. The faster you move the more lonely you'll be. Follow the fast track, don't take love lightly, and never stop exploring the shadows. Humanity is horrid, but humans can be great.


 

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To me, I detected a lot of 8 in you, except for you response to Power, because usually 8's want to be in power and control, so maybe a CP(counterphobic) 6? Sorry if this is no help to you, but I would look into those two types, definitely!
 

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Depends on which definition of type 8 you buy into. He doesn't fit RH's The Challenger typing of 8, but his response to stress actually seems in-line with it, as he tells himself to toughen up to endure and achieve. 8s tend to welcome conflict and almost take it for granted, but I don't know if the trembling thing is just a side effect from uncertainty and is not connected to a dislike of conflict. 8s aren't always the best at introspection, so when asked to describe themselves it doesn't always get illustrated best.

Many CP6s don't seem as grounded as him in some way... They normally have a character about them that tries to show a lighter side to themselves, as he does not.

He mentions an image of success, which almost screams 3 but at the same time most 3s focus differently upon achieving and act far different. 3s are pretty distinct on these questionnaires, and past the opening I didn't pick up a bit of 3.

Mpobrien was probably right that you're most like an 8, but the other types mentioned should be researched.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
To me, I detected a lot of 8 in you, except for you response to Power, because usually 8's want to be in power and control, so maybe a CP(counterphobic) 6? Sorry if this is no help to you, but I would look into those two types, definitely!
I was thinking of political power. I've always been a very informed person on these matters and I've had a goal to achieve that level of success one day. In some ways, I'm afraid I'll be a misunderstood politician that does more than a workaholic father, yet still feels neglected and disrespected by those he represents. In a smaller setting, I have no problem with leadership and control.

Depends on which definition of type 8 you buy into. He doesn't fit RH's The Challenger typing of 8, but his response to stress actually seems in-line with it, as he tells himself to toughen up to endure and achieve. 8s tend to welcome conflict and almost take it for granted, but I don't know if the trembling thing is just a side effect from uncertainty and is not connected to a dislike of conflict. 8s aren't always the best at introspection, so when asked to describe themselves it doesn't always get illustrated best.

Many CP6s don't seem as grounded as him in some way... They normally have a character about them that tries to show a lighter side to themselves, as he does not.

He mentions an image of success, which almost screams 3 but at the same time most 3s focus differently upon achieving and act far different. 3s are pretty distinct on these questionnaires, and past the opening I didn't pick up a bit of 3.

Mpobrien was probably right that you're most like an 8, but the other types mentioned should be researched.
It took a decent thirty minutes to find the right way to express these thoughts. You might be onto something in regards to my failing at descriptive works such as this lovely thread.

I tend to start conflict for the fun of it, but the trembling tends to happen out of extreme anger not the dislike of conflict. I tend to be angry at myself for failing to think through my positions. Hence the lack of confidence in what I'm arguing.
I tremble when I'm conflicting with those I'm on good terms with and or someone with authority over me. Usually because I place a high value on relationships and I know others don't share my enjoyment of conflict. Also, I have people to think about and authority figures threaten more than myself. I tend to tremble at the vile feeling of being controlled and at the horrid possibility of failing those I care about.


"In fact, beneath their imposing exterior, Eights often feel hurt and rejected, although this is something they seldom talk about because they have trouble admitting their vulnerability to themselves, let alone to anyone else. Because they fear that they will be rejected (divorced, humiliated, criticized, fired, or harmed in some way), Eights attempt to defend themselves by rejecting others first. The result is that average Eights become blocked in their ability to connect with people or to love since love gives the other power over them, reawakening their Basic Fear."

Out of all the paragraphs in your link this was the closest to expressing my basic fears.
 

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It took a decent thirty minutes to find the right way to express these thoughts. You might be onto something in regards to my failing at descriptive works such as this lovely thread.

I tend to start conflict for the fun of it, but the trembling tends to happen out of extreme anger not the dislike of conflict. I tend to be angry at myself for failing to think through my positions. Hence the lack of confidence in what I'm arguing.
I tremble when I'm conflicting with those I'm on good terms with and or someone with authority over me. Usually because I place a high value on relationships and I know others don't share my enjoyment of conflict. Also, I have people to think about and authority figures threaten more than myself. I tend to tremble at the vile feeling of being controlled and at the horrid possibility of failing those I care about.

From your link, "
In fact, beneath their imposing exterior, Eights often feel hurt and rejected, although this is something they seldom talk about because they have trouble admitting their vulnerability to themselves, let alone to anyone else. Because they fear that they will be rejected (divorced, humiliated, criticized, fired, or harmed in some way), Eights attempt to defend themselves by rejecting others first. The result is that average Eights become
blocked in their ability to connect with people or to love
since love gives the other power over them, reawakening their Basic Fear."

Out of all the paragraphs in your link this was the closest to expressing my basic fears.
From this I see no reason to doubt you're an 8. I do not promote Timeless' article on 8s (found in the 8 subforum) because it is supposed to be linked to a loss of innocence, and you would probably get typed by followers of that belief as a 3 of some sort, a pretty odd one from the norm without a fixation on building your image via performance. You're not the first who was pretty obviously an 8 by RH's standards that got pointed in other directions because you're not a amoral bastard, but last time I wasn't certain of myself to stop it. 6s, 8s, and 3s are very susceptible to amorality due to a bad learning experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
From this I see no reason to doubt you're an 8. I do not promote Timeless' article on 8s (found in the 8 subforum) because it is supposed to be linked to a loss of innocence, and you would probably get typed by followers of that belief as a 3 of some sort, a pretty odd one from the norm without a fixation on building your image via performance. You're not the first who was pretty obviously an 8 by RH's standards that got pointed in other directions because you're not a amoral bastard, but last time I wasn't certain of myself to stop it. 6s, 8s, and 3s are very susceptible to amorality due to a bad learning experience.
Would you mind elaborating on this point?
 

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Would you mind elaborating on this point?
Like the kid on stage in front of his parents the 3 is looking to gain recognition and be viewed as more successful and capable. It is a focus on others' perspective in which they build themselves upon, and being a failure is the greatest fear. The type is based around the principle of an image to achieve, so many will emphasize looking the part.

8s seem driven to succeed, but it is in the way of challenging self that RH speaks of. The 8 I've experienced does very much chest pounding without ever noticing it. Toughening themselves up seems to be a way of life.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Like the kid on stage in front of his parents the 3 is looking to gain recognition and be viewed as more successful and capable. It is a focus on others' perspective in which they build themselves upon, and being a failure is the greatest fear. The type is based around the principle of an image to achieve, so many will emphasize looking the part.

8s seem driven to succeed, but it is in the way of challenging self that RH speaks of. The 8 I've experienced does very much chest pounding without ever noticing it. Toughening themselves up seems to be a way of life.
I partly relate to the three description. Mostly in regards to my parents growing up. As I am today, I still try to impress upon those I respect the most, an image of success. This may sound shallow, but if people can be a benefit to my goals I try to impress them.

As I age, I find myself competing less with the external world. I find myself trying to impress others less and focus more on my personal happiness. The need to impress remains, but it isn't as extreme today in contrast to my early teenage years. There are many reasons for my waning need to impress others: I know my limitations more absolutely, people can be frustrating to interact when they don't acknowledge my achievements, I have lived in the same area for so long; people know my abilities, and I have more personal friends impress and compete against.
 

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I partly relate to the three description. Mostly in regards to my parents growing up. As I am today, I still try to impress upon those I respect the most, an image of success. This may sound shallow, but if people can be a benefit to my goals I try to impress them.

As I age, I find myself competing less with the external world. I find myself trying to impress others less and focus more on my personal happiness. The need to impress remains, but it isn't as extreme today in contrast to my early teenage years. There are many reasons for my waning need to impress others: I know my limitations more absolutely, people can be frustrating to interact when they don't acknowledge my achievements, I have lived in the same area for so long; people know my abilities, and I have more personal friends impress and compete against.
Hmm... how central the desire to impress must be to be a 3 is the question because it must be a fixation.
Fixation - A persistent and pervasive pattern or practice.
Someone who knows more about the 3 and their image may have to help you to verify you being a core 3.

Would you mind going into the misidentification article in those subforums and find the 3-8 comparison and either come to a conclusion or show which you identify with?
 

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Hmm... how central the desire to impress must be to be a 3 is the question because it must be a fixation.
Fixation - A persistent and pervasive pattern or practice.
Someone who knows more about the 3 and their image may have to help you to verify you being a core 3.

Would you mind going into the misidentification article in those subforums and find the 3-8 comparison and either come to a conclusion or show which you identify with?
I might have to sleep on this one. I'm not as power hungry as this description of eight seems to be, and I do tend to compare myself to others often.

I'm having a hard time removing my ego from the situation. I prefer the image of Eight over the image of Three because I don't like appearing weak and so dependent on others. Yet, the will of popular opinion does truly control my actions. The only aspect of the Eight description here that I have no objection to is, "
The difference is that average Eights are self-assertive and want others to give them their way immediately so they do not have to waste time and energy fighting with people–not that they are afraid to do so."

Could wings be an aspect of my confusion or is this description from a more balanced look?

Maybe my MBTI thread will give you more clarity if you're willing to read it? Not to impose or anything. My answers might relate to this system, but I'm not sure if it will be of any help.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/93441-there-no-tomorrow.html


 

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1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
I'm a red power tie. My personality is who I'm with to make the impression I desire. I like to collect the minds of interesting people. I try to conform to the traits of those that succeeded. I'm sort of a power hog. I believe in working hard to achieve the freedom to never have to work hard again. Now, having taken upon myself the images I desire, I tend question who I really am underneath.
A fluid identity to achieve, 3.
 

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I'm a core 3, and based on everything I've read about you, I would definitely say you're more of a 3 than an 8. (My opinions coming up) 8s are more based on honesty, while 3s can be considered "deceitful." You never get a true picture of who they are because they always change themselves to fit an ideal they believe others want to see. If you have any questions about 3s you can feel free to ask me, but I think @Jawz (sorry to drag you in haha!) is the "expert" on 3s who can probably answer your questions better than I could. As Wake said, fluidity to achieve=3.
 

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I'm a core 3, and based on everything I've read about you, I would definitely say you're more of a 3 than an 8. (My opinions coming up) 8s are more based on honesty, while 3s can be considered "deceitful." You never get a true picture of who they are because they always change themselves to fit an ideal they believe others want to see. If you have any questions about 3s you can feel free to ask me, but I think @Jawz (sorry to drag you in haha!) is the "expert" on 3s who can probably answer your questions better than I could. As Wake said, fluidity to achieve=3.
Thanks for the help @Wake and @mpobrien

My only other questions tend to be about wings and subtypes. How do they function? Where is the best place to start if I want know my wing and subtype theme?
 

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Well if you are indeed a 3, your wing will either be a 2 or a 4. I'm a 3w2, and I'm more people oriented than someone who would be a 3w4. I do things for people to notice it, and I want to achieve things and be successful, but most of what I want to do involves being in the public eye constantly. I want to help people and be known for helping people. I think of Oprah Winfrey, she's my 3w2 example. 3w4's, I can't say I know much about personally. On the 3 forum there are plenty of stickied threads describing the wings in detail.

By subtype do you mean your head and gut fixes, or instinctual variants?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
@mpobrien

Instinctual variants. Is there anything in my posts that leads you to an opinion on my wings/IVs?


In regards to your description, I have tendency to act in a similar way, but I'm more picky about those I want to impress. I can be highly aloof to a person or group if they don't catch my attention.
 

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Well, Wake linked everything I was going to quote... I guess I'll just throw this in too

Self-Preservation: Security. In their obsession for security they make themselves sure of themselves. These Threes are too sure of themselves. They reject the experience of insecurity. They seem to be 2
more selfish, more demanding of "This is what I want!" They are less pleasing, Even in relationships
there may be a sexual issue but beneath it is a search for security. Very cautious. Over-confident, the
image of the person who "has it all together." The first time I saw this type I was in bed with a married
woman whose husband came home and began to walk along the corridor toward the room, and she said,
"Take it easy, he never comes into this room" and I was surprised she could be so at ease.

Sexual:
Masculinity/Femininity. Sex appeal, attractive image (more a physical image). The man is
"strong" but not the same strength of impulse, more "looking" rough, like the Marlboro Man. As if the
more the person is dependent on the image or identifies with the image, the less freedom there is to be
something else; e.g., being so attached to lipstick you could not go out on the street without it. Because
of the connection with the Six Strength and Beauty subtype, those issues will show up also. Seeks to be
attractive to the other.

Social:
Prestige. Here you might say that prestige is the wish that your values are acknowledged, seen,
recognized. That's normal; every child has a need for his or her value to be seen; if there's a wound there
so that would develop into a passion, vanity is a distortion. It's not only driving you because you have to
work for love, but that you are pursuing values that are not your own values; e.g., in societies where "fat"
women are more marriageable. The Little Prince said, "Grown-ups always ask 'How much money do you
make?' They never ask 'Do you like butterflies?'" Seeking to be attractive to the whole world
(conspicuous consumption). If you spend enough you will be known as a rich person, a successful
person. Attracts more money—money is tied to "reputation." It is said of Jacque Onassis that her G-spot
was in the shopping mall! Another woman at a furrier's trying on a mink coat and saying, "Don't you have
another coat? This one is below my means."
From your posts, I kind of got a SP vibe...but I'm really not the best at these.

I also think you're a 3w2, just because I didn't see any "I'm so different from everyone else" from you, nor a need for authenticity that (I suspect) a 4 wing would have. Definitely look into them both thoroughly.

I hate to be a self promoter (well... not really) but this is my "type me" thread. I'm, apparently, a "textbook 3w2" so seeing the world through my perspective may help you, so you can see where you relate to me.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/95567-am-i-3-im-not-sure.html
 

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Thanks for the help @Wake and @mpobrien

My only other questions tend to be about wings and subtypes. How do they function? Where is the best place to start if I want know my wing and subtype theme?
Definitions vary on all of the wings and subtypes. For me, 1/2 the definitions I'm a 1w9 and the other half I'm a 1w2. People tell me I'm a 1w2, but the 1w2s think I'm too harsh and unfeeling to be a 1w2. That is my story.

Here is one take on instinctual variants: Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings
Here is another: Enneagram Test, Instinctual Subtypes, Enneagram Subtypes | Enneagram Worldwide

This site has some of the best wing descriptions, but it doesn't match some others that you may find. Make what you will of all of it: Typewatch Enneagram
 
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