Personality Cafe banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
During job interviews, if you're working in customer service or anything where you have to work with a lot of people, do you present yourself as having Soc traits during interviews or when you're filling out questionnaires? Do you have a sense of what they want to hear from you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
Ha! Great question. I often feel like I struggle in this sort of area of life... because I very much do NOT have many Soc traits. Yeah... I do sort of try to mention things that would suggest I ~play well with others~ so to speak. But I don't play it up too much because I feel like they'd be able to tell it was fake. So instead I try to find ways to make my actual strengths sound appealing or applicable to social situations and networks. It's hard to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
During job interviews (in general), I do try to manipulate my image to seem like I am more SO-dom than I am (since it's last in my instinctual variant stacking). I despise this. . .but if I want a job, this is the way the world works (or at least the United States is a very SO-dom oriented culture).

I don't have a good grasp of SO type culture, or what an interviewer might want to hear from me. So, like any good actor, I do my research! :)

www.TheMuse.com has some Great articles to help with interviews! Then I just practice in the mirror ("big smiles! like you mean it!") and BAM! I usually, kind of, sort of, get the job! :laughing:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quernus

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
I don't really even know that Soc traits would necessarily always be a huge help in an interview. It would really depend on the type of job you are interviewing for. If it's team-oriented, or in the service industry, then sure, interpersonal awareness is helpful. But some other positions really don't benefit much from Soc traits IMO (speaking as Soc dominant). Some interviewers are going to be looking for if you can read them and give them what they're looking for; others are going to be more impressed by drive and knowledge.

o0india0o said:
at least the United States is a very SO-dom oriented culture
I don't know that I agree with this. Maybe Soc/Sp, but I think there's a heavy amount of Sp in US culture. The "American Dream" is very Sp/Soc. I find the US overwhelmingly opinionated, political, and every-man-for-himself for my Soc/Sx tastes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
I don't really even know that Soc traits would necessarily always be a huge help in an interview. It would really depend on the type of job you are interviewing for. If it's team-oriented, or in the service industry, then sure, interpersonal awareness is helpful. But some other positions really don't benefit much from Soc traits IMO (speaking as Soc dominant). Some interviewers are going to be looking for if you can read them and give them what they're looking for; others are going to be more impressed by drive and knowledge.



I don't know that I agree with this. Maybe Soc/Sp, but I think there's a heavy amount of Sp in US culture. The "American Dream" is very Sp/Soc. I find the US overwhelmingly opinionated, political, and every-man-for-himself for my Soc/Sx tastes.
I agree that SP ideation is rampant in the United States (as a group), but SO-dom traits are valued/coveted in individual citizens.

We care about which schools our kids get into, how many friends an individual has, what kinds of connections, awards & honors, the news and politics, our career development,. . .stupid sh*t in my opinion.

I feel like SX-dom is shunned in this culture;;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
I agree that SP ideation is rampant in the United States (as a group), but SO-dom traits are valued/curveted in individual citizens.

We care about which schools our kids get into, how many friends an individual has, what kinds of connections, awards & honors, the news and politics, our career development,. . .stupid sh*t in my opinion.

I feel like SX-dom is shunned in this culture;;
That status/comparison stuff... it's not "Soc" exactly. The Soc perspective is about seeing and understanding how everything fits together, so that does entail comparison, but the Soc instinct doesn't determine how you judge the value of what position you or others have. I wish people would look deeper into Soc before dismissing it as superficiality; IMO superficiality lies on another axis entirely, better grouped with health/unhealth than with any variant. It is a Soc "fact", I suppose, how many friends one has, but that's just one data point among many: how many friends someone has, whether they are close or distant emotionally, whether they are close or distant physically, whether you have a large family or a small family, whether that family is close emotionally and physically, what kind of things your friends and family are into, whether they are all one large social group or several smaller groups or both or mostly individual friendships, whether they are all from the same ethnicity/religion/politics/SES/gender, all those sorts of people facts... But that someone is high in Soc instinct does not mean they value mainstream status indicators. They will just be aware of what those status indicators are.

Soc may be a group-oriented mentality, but at its best it seeks for each individual to be healthy and happy, because each individual is a part of the whole, and if any individual is downtrodden, that brings down the health of the whole. At its best, Soc supports, not undermines, the other instincts, opening doors for Sx engagement and Sp comfort. I believe that it is the same for all the instincts: that, at their best, they support one another. As for Sx, I think it is fairly valued in my culture - at least in terms of its traits. "Cutting edge", "passion", "drive", "fire": these are positive terms. At least in this generation we are encouraged to pursue our passions as our careers, and to seek a deeper happiness than just security. I understand that Sx can come with a bucket of torment and longing, but I don't see it as shunned in its entirety. I think it is just more relegated to specific realms, like art, music, and so on. But I suspect there are probably many Sx entrepreneurs out there. I don't think it can be as diffusely valued as Soc is because Sx is inherently focused. Soc is inherently diffuse. And Sp values itself!

But to bring this all back to the point of the thread - I think that for Soc-lasts in people-oriented job interviews, I don't think you necessarily even should try to have Soc traits... My Sx/Sp brother is currently working a customer service job that he got because he really clicked with the boss about biochemistry (the operations side of the company). He talked about what he was interested in, so he lit up and was interesting and knowledgeable. My Sp/Sx dad is a congenial and intelligent person without having any Soc traits; he's astute and talented at his job, which involves constant interpersonal interaction. He's a 5w6 and could barely give less of a crap about Soc stuff - and yet he's in a fairly status-high position, I can only assume because his competence and interpersonal skills shine through when he interviews. Point being, I really don't think you need any Soc traits to be an appealing candidate during an interview. Better to just shine in whatever way you do than to try to fake being someone else.

Though you should definitely lie your ass off on those stupid HR assessments. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
That status/comparison stuff... it's not "Soc" exactly. IMO the Soc perspective is about seeing and understanding how everything fits together, and what "place" things are in, so that does entail comparison, but the Soc instinct doesn't determine how you judge the value of what position you or others have. I wish people would look deeper into Soc before dismissing it as superficiality; IMO superficiality lies on another axis entirely, better grouped with health/unhealth than with any variant.

It is a Soc "fact", I suppose, how many friends one has, but that's just one data point among many: how many friends, whether they are close or distant emotionally, whether they are close or distant physically, whether you have a large family, whether that family is close emotionally and physically, what kind of things those friends are into, whether they are all one large social group or several smaller groups or both or mostly individual friendships, whether they are all from the same ethnicity/religion/SES/gender, all those sorts of people facts... The form doesn't determine the content - that someone is high in Soc instinct does not mean they are driven by mainstream status indicators. They will just be aware of what those status indicators are.

Moreover, Soc may be a group-oriented mentality, but at its best it seeks for each individual to be healthy and happy, because each individual is an important part of the whole, and if any individual is downtrodden, that brings down the health of the whole. At its best, Soc supports, not undermines, the other instincts, opening doors for Sx engagement and Sp comfort. I believe that it is the same for all the instincts: that, at their best, they support one another.

As for Sx, I think it is fairly valued in my culture - at least in terms of its traits. "Cutting edge", "passion", "drive", "fire": these are positive terms. At least in this generation we are encouraged to pursue our passions as our careers, and to seek a deeper happiness than just security. I understand that Sx can come with a bucket of torment and longing, but I don't see it as shunned in its entirety. I think it is just more relegated to specific realms, like art, music, and so on. But I suspect there are probably many Sx entrepreneurs out there.
Feel better now that you got that off your chest? :)

Anyways. . . :rolleyes:

I'm just saying, I personally believe that SX-dom is not widely accepted in United States culture. When you say "my culture" are you talking about the United States also?

I still think America is more SP/SO-ish.

Yes, I agree that all the instincts working in harmony would be healthiest/best. I'm just bitter due to what feels like a culture that upholds "norms" that don't fit with me;; make me mask myself, and act SO-dom. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quernus

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
I don't really even know that Soc traits would necessarily always be a huge help in an interview. It would really depend on the type of job you are interviewing for. If it's team-oriented, or in the service industry, then sure, interpersonal awareness is helpful. But some other positions really don't benefit much from Soc traits IMO (speaking as Soc dominant). Some interviewers are going to be looking for if you can read them and give them what they're looking for; others are going to be more impressed by drive and knowledge.



I don't know that I agree with this. Maybe Soc/Sp, but I think there's a heavy amount of Sp in US culture. The "American Dream" is very Sp/Soc. I find the US overwhelmingly opinionated, political, and every-man-for-himself for my Soc/Sx tastes.
I think the US is very SP/SO. SO traits are valued, for better or worse, at least in some abstract way. Probably in a real way too since the people I see getting ahead are usually the ones who can dominate social situations or know how to navigate them properly... often crushing others, so yeah, SP and SO.

As someone with very little SO traits, I have NEVER had a job or interviewed for a job where the image of SO wasn't necessary or desired. Even stuff that's more... art related, less corporate, more independent. If there are other people involved, there are a ton of buzzwords they look for such as "team player" and ...god I can't even remember the other ones off the top of my head, this is how unnatural it is to me, but I always do research in advance. I think certain people would be able to see through it, if I'm just throwing those words out there without substance, but the more by-the-book people .....eat it right up. So I have to kinda quickly assess what kind of person they seem to be based on their initial reactions and interactions.

Ummmmmmmmmm. I would like to know where in the world SP/SX or SX/SP gets ahead. I haven't travelled nearly enough but I would like to not live here anymore, anyway. Ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
Feel better now that you got that off your chest? :)

Anyways. . . :rolleyes:

I'm just saying, I personally believe that SX-dom is not widely accepted in United States culture. When you say "my culture" are you talking about the United States also?

I still think America is more SP/SO-ish.

Yes, I agree that all the instincts working in harmony would be healthiest/best. I'm just bitter due to what feels like a culture that upholds "norms" that don't fit with me;; make me mask myself, and act SO-dom. Nothing more, nothing less.
No, I don't feel better, because instead of actually learning something from what I've said it sounds like you just dismissed it. And I'm bitter that my instinct keeps getting blamed for greed, superficiality, and spiritual emptiness. If you read my post, you'd get that society doesn't "want to make you a Soc dom", because you'd understand that all that negativity has little to do with the Social instinct.

I live in the Southern US; down here I think it is So/Sp. Northern East Coast I would say Sp/So. I can't speak for the rest of the country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
As someone with very little SO traits, I have NEVER had a job or interviewed for a job where the image of SO wasn't necessary or desired. Even stuff that's more... art related, less corporate, more independent. If there are other people involved, there are a ton of buzzwords they look for such as "team player" and ...god I can't even remember the other ones off the top of my head, this is how unnatural it is to me, but I always do research in advance. I think certain people would be able to see through it, if I'm just throwing those words out there without substance, but the more by-the-book people .....eat it right up. So I have to kinda quickly assess what kind of person they seem to be based on their initial reactions and interactions.
Again, I'm not even convinced that's Social stuff. I don't even know what I'd classify buzzwords/lingo as. I hate it just as much as you do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
No, I don't feel better, because instead of actually learning something from what I've said it sounds like you just dismissed it. And I'm bitter that my instinct keeps getting blamed for greed, superficiality, and spiritual emptiness. If you read my post, you'd get that society doesn't "want to make you a Soc dom", because you'd understand that all that negativity has little to do with the Social instinct.

I live in the Southern US; down here I think it is So/Sp. Northern East Coast I would say Sp/So. I can't speak for the rest of the country.
I can understand being upset that SO-dom's get labeled as: greedy, superficial, and spiritually empty. That would be frustrating, especially if you feel it does not correctly represent a group you associate with.

I have only been on Personality Cafe for a month or so now (at least according to my achievements), but I have heard similar complaints from other SO-dom Perc members. I have also come under the impression that SO-dom is not common in these parts (Personality Cafe), and that it has led SO-dom members to feel a bit isolated or thereabouts.

The thing is, it's going to be hard for us to "learn" about SO-dom, when you start policing our feelings on a forum thread asking SO-last members about their thoughts and feelings. (lol) We are entitled to our feelings. The question was not philosophical in nature, it was about opinions and personal experiences. I'm not saying you cannot put your two-cents in the mix, but maybe creating your own forum thread or sticky about SO-dom would be a more productive (and peaceful) use of your time if you want to educate us about SO-dom?

I understand you're going to respond and tell me you're not "policing anybody's feelings";; can we skip that stage? & move straight to productivity?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
During job interviews, if you're working in customer service or anything where you have to work with a lot of people, do you present yourself as having Soc traits during interviews or when you're filling out questionnaires?
I'm so-last.

No, I don't have to fake the presence of my social instinct, because I actually developed my social instinct. "So-last" or "So-blind" does not mean "So-non-existent". You realize that, by dividing each type into "sx-type", "sp-type", and "so-type", and then continuing to straight up ignore your blind spot, means at best, you are integrating and developing 2/3 of a type, right?

Everyone has blind spots and weak points, whether that's enneatype, MB, instinctual stacking, or anything else. The idea of growth is to address those weak spots to develop them honestly, not use their weakness as an excuse to fake their presence. I mean, to me, that's easier than pretending to have something I don't.

I do well enough on interviews. It has nothing to do with my social instinct.

Do you have a sense of what they want to hear from you?
Yes. They generally want to hear that you're willing to sell your soul to the company. Other than that, every single job I've ever gotten was through people I know, and I simply ask them how their interviews went. Since they're recommending me, they probably want me to get that job, so they give me pointers on how to prepare for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
Again, I'm not even convinced that's Social stuff. I don't even know what I'd classify buzzwords/lingo as. I hate it just as much as you do.
Okay... well I am definitely talking about SO stuff to my understanding of it. I'm not saying all SO stuff is about being fake and appealing to status quo or anything -- I'm saying that can be a negative side to it (and often times you see/suffer from the more negative aspects of your last instinctual variant, since the positive things are not as natural to you). This is often what I see happening in jobs. And here is the stuff I am talking about:


------------

Social Variant

People of the social variant prefer to be in groups or teams. They are more interested than the other subtypes in the position that they and others have in a group, and are consequently concerned with status. Wanting to be accepted, they try to fit in and be nice.
Instinctual variants


Social (aka "Adaptive") Instinct

Just as many people tend to misidentify themselves as Sexual types because they want one-on-one relationships, many people fail to recognize themselves as Social types because they get the (false) idea that this means always being involved in groups, meetings, and parties. If Self-Preservation types are interested in adjusting the environment to make themselves more secure and comfortable, Social types adapt themselves to serve the needs of the social situation they find themselves in. Thus, Social types are highly aware of other people, whether they are in intimate situations or in groups. They are also aware of how their actions and attitudes are affecting those around them. Moreover, Sexual types seek intimacy, Social types seek personal connection: they want to stay in long-term contact with people and to be involved in their world. Social types are the most concerned with doing things that will have some impact on their community, or even broader domains. They tend to be warmer, more open, engaging, and socially responsible than the other two types. In their primary relationships, they seek partners with whom they can share social activities, wanting their intimates to get involved in projects and events with them. Paradoxically, they actually tend to avoid long periods of exclusive intimacy and quiet solitude, seeing both as potentially limiting. Social types lose their sense of identity and meaning when they are not involved with others in activities that transcend their individual interests.


http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/intro.asp#instincts


Social - Governs our needs for belonging and membership within the larger group and community

https://www.enneagramworldwide.com/instinctual-subtypes/

---------------------


A lot of the descriptions above sound like great things but that's not natural to me, and it is HIGHLY reinforced in every single job I've had -- at least in the initial interview stage. And when you get arbitrary status and bureaucracy involved, it's even harder for me to deal with/comply with. Now once you actually get into the job, it also takes a good deal of SP to get ahead (aka crush others... but also with SO, do it in a way that seems appealing! like be dominant, assertive, micromanaging in a way that seems 'oriented' towards building a better community!)

I'm not saying there's something wrong with SO more than the other instincts or that "SO things" SHOULDN'T play a part in job performance. I'm just saying I think it is very heavily enforced/fixated on here, even if just in kind of a fake/appearance-oriented way.

This is similar to how extroverts do often have an advantage over introverts in the US -- though there are differences.

If I go into an interview and tell them quite honestly that I am a compassionate, creative, independent worker --- that can be great. But then they also ask how do I work in a team environment, how do I handle conflicts, how do I mediate, blablabla. These are good skills to have -- I am not completely inept --- but I think the focus is disproportionately on these things. And it's hard for me to know the right things to say because tbqh I'd rather be left the hell alone, I have no interest in climbing ladders in companies I don't care about (if I'm just working to make a living), and if I do actually care about my company then my motivation will be more driven by my passion for the work itself.

If you'd like examples for every single job I've had or interviewed for, I'd be happy to talk about it, lmao. I'm just not sure that's really something anyone would be interested in.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
I'm so-last.

No, I don't have to fake the presence of my social instinct, because I actually developed my social instinct. "So-last" or "So-blind" does not mean "So-non-existent". You realize that, by dividing each type into "sx-type", "sp-type", and "so-type", and then continuing to straight up ignore your blind spot, means at best, you are integrating and developing 2/3 of a type, right?

Everyone has blind spots and weak points, whether that's enneatype, MB, instinctual stacking, or anything else. The idea of growth is to address those weak spots to develop them honestly, not use their weakness as an excuse to fake their presence. I mean, to me, that's easier than pretending to have something I don't.

I do well enough on interviews. It has nothing to do with my social instinct.

Yes. They generally want to hear that you're willing to sell your soul to the company. Other than that, every single job I've ever gotten was through people I know, and I simply ask them how their interviews went. Since they're recommending me, they probably want me to get that job, so they give me pointers on how to prepare for it.
That must be very nice for you! Congrats on learning how to develop your SO instinct better. I must admit I have little interest in SO-type things which makes it hard for me to be motivated to develop the skills -- however I do recognize that it would behoove me to do so.

However since I have severe social anxiety, this *can* make it difficult (I am sure plenty of people with SO first or second also have social anxiety, I'm just saying it personally has somewhat deterred me from developing skills for something I already don't naturally care about, since it takes so much damn energy to deal with it).

I also think I suck at job interviews because of anxiety and low confidence in general -- I can prepare all the livelong day and still fail -- that has nothing to do with being SO-last. But if my SO instinct WAS stronger or more natural, I really really think I would fit in a lot better or know the correct things to say more often in this regard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
That must be very nice for you! Congrats on learning how to develop your SO instinct better. I must admit I have little interest in SO-type things which makes it hard for me to be motivated to develop the skills -- however I do recognize that it would behoove me to do so.
I do too. I did it because I'm motivated by my survival. For example, I fear being controlled, and social situations very easily trigger it. So at the minimum, I develop those skills so that I can both benefit from it and won't be subdued by it.

However since I have severe social anxiety, this *can* make it difficult (I am sure plenty of people with SO first or second also have social anxiety, I'm just saying it personally has somewhat deterred me from developing skills for something I already don't naturally care about, since it takes so much damn energy to deal with it).
I never said it was easy. My anti-social behavior is my biggest barrier, but I'm internally ruthless enough to resort to drugs/alcohol if I must.

I also think I suck at job interviews because of anxiety and low confidence in general -- I can prepare all the livelong day and still fail -- that has nothing to do with being SO-last.
Exactly, me being a friendless loser has nothing to do with me having so-last, as much as I'm just difficult to get along.

But if my SO instinct WAS stronger or more natural, I really really think I would fit in a lot better or know the correct things to say more often in this regard.
The instinct stacking is also a double-edged sword. If it was higher in your stack, problems in your SO-arena would also cause you a disproportionate amount of problems compared to whichever theoretical instinct is now in your blind-spot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
I can understand being upset that SO-dom's get labeled as: greedy, superficial, and spiritually empty. That would be frustrating, especially if you feel it does not correctly represent a group you associate with.

I have only been on Personality Cafe for a month or so now (at least according to my achievements), but I have heard similar complaints from other SO-dom Perc members. I have also come under the impression that SO-dom is not common in these parts (Personality Cafe), and that it has led SO-dom members to feel a bit isolated or thereabouts.

The thing is, it's going to be hard for us to "learn" about SO-dom, when you start policing our feelings on a forum thread asking SO-last members about their thoughts and feelings. (lol) We are entitled to our feelings. The question was not philosophical in nature, it was about opinions and personal experiences. I'm not saying you cannot put your two-cents in the mix, but maybe creating your own forum thread or sticky about SO-dom would be a more productive (and peaceful) use of your time if you want to educate us about SO-dom?

I understand you're going to respond and tell me you're not "policing anybody's feelings";; can we skip that stage? & move straight to productivity?
I will leave this thread alone, and I am genuinely sorry if I have taken away from anyone's personal sharing or if I have detracted from the topic as a whole.

My initial intention was simply to point out that I think it would be more useful to mimic a corporate PR person than a Social-dominant during an interview! And for Social-lasts I imagine that does entail acting more Social-y, but I think it is more complex than just that. I change who I am for interviews, too.

However, I also feel the right to speak up when I see misinformation or feel like I am being misrepresented. You listed a number of attributes that I do not value, called them "stupid sh*t", and attributed them to the Social instinct, and I do not feel that it was wrong to call that out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
I will leave this thread alone, and I am genuinely sorry if I have taken away from anyone's personal sharing or if I have detracted from the topic as a whole. It was not my intention to threadjack.

However, I also feel the right to speak up when I see misinformation or feel like I am being misrepresented. You listed a number of attributes that I do not value, called them "stupid sh*t", and attributed them to the Social instinct. I do not feel like it was wrong to call that out.

I am entitled to find stuff stupid (none of which had to do with you). There is nothing to call out. Those are my feelings.

I have tried to be incredibly patient with you, but blaming me for your temper tantrum is really irritating.

How about you sit on one side of Personality Cafe, and I'll sit on the other. & Let's not talk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,610 Posts
I never said it was easy. My anti-social behavior is my biggest barrier, but I'm internally ruthless enough to resort to drugs/alcohol if I must.
...lmfao.


The instinct stacking is also a double-edged sword. If it was higher in your stack, problems in your SO-arena would also cause you a disproportionate amount of problems compared to whichever theoretical instinct is now in your blind-spot.
This is true, and I know that, and there are areas of life that would be affected differently if my stacking was different (none totally out of my control as I can develop to be a fuller human, more or less). I just really find it hard to imagine many common situations where someone with SO higher in their stacking would have a harder time with career success, in ways that relate specifically to their instinctual variants. Of course there's more to a person and this isn't the overriding factor. People with no knowledge of enneagram can recognize these weaknesses and develop skills to be better at things. But... career success is... very much valued/praised/exalted/wtfever in the US, so when talking about Enneagram and Career Success In Particular, I think it's interesting and relevant.

Not as an excuse "yes, I'm doomed because I am SO-last" but just in terms of understanding experiences and gaining insight.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top