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The Imaginative INFp




If the INFp had a theme song, it would go thusly:

“Vado, ma dove? Oh dei!
Se de’ tormenti suoi, se de’ sospiri miei
Non sente il ciel pietа.

Tu che mi parli al core
Guida I miei passi, amore;
Tu quel ritegno or togli
Che dubitar mi fа.”

**
“I go – but where, o gods
since for his torment and my pleas
Heaven offers no pity?

You who speak to my heart,
Guide my steps, dear love;
Ease that uncertainty,
That urges me to doubt.”

- LORENZO DA PONTE (1749-1838)
The INFp is perpetually caught within that “pondering repose of If” that Herman Melville wrote of in Moby-Dick. He is forever in doubt. He never truly feels at ease with the ways of this world, its people and its circumstances. It is not that he does not understand things – but that he doubts his own understanding. In fact, he is capable of an understanding on a far more visceral level than his peers are. He “feels” that he has understood something rather than “knows” that this is the case. True understanding for an INFp is forever linked with the word “revelation.” He will never claim to have deduced an understanding, but will instead say that the truth was “revealed” to him.

INFps are distinguished by their sense of humor. Their humor is spontaneous, cutely ironic, and oftentimes rather random. They may put on a faзade of being under the influence of any number of substances, and as a result may appear childish, out-of-touch, and spacey. This is actually a defense mechanism to distance themselves from a contrived existence. When acting like this, they are most likely thinking: “You people take yourselves way too seriously.” They may seem estranged from reality, but they in fact dwell on a far more significant plane in their own minds. Internally they understand full well the gritty undertones of life, but see the world within the context of an overarching, transcendent framework that liberates him from the trappings of the workaday world. They have their eyes on “bigger issues” at hand.

At their core, INFps cannot bear being disliked – they would rather die beloved than live despised. In social situations, they tend to take on the role of a pacifist – averting conflict, to the point of putting themselves in the middle of an argument. They rarely like taking sides unless they truly believe they are acting nobly. They want to be thought of as wise beyond their years (and they often are), sometimes taking on the role of a learned sage come down from the mountaintop after having spent fifty years observing the ways of his fellow men. They can become great at debate if the topic is one they care about, but will often turn to impressive and pensive rhetoric as opposed to solid factual evidence when making their case.

Sometimes, they fall prey to annotating their own life in their heads. In their own minds, they are the stars of an eternal epic. When they aren’t acting stoned, they want to appear elegant and important. Their entire demeanor will reflect this. Their speech and movement will often be impressive and exciting. Because of this somewhat dramatic notion, they can be quite sensitive. Offending an INFp is equivalent to offending no less than a prophet of God! (Not really, but you get the idea.) A spurned INFp will not usually concentrate on ways to hurt the offender. They are fundamentally gentle souls. However, they may brood for quite some time on how they themselves have been hurt. These people truly make an art of wallowing in their own misery. In fact, it can lead them to beautifully creative measures: INFps will often write poetry or create music and art when in these moods.

The INFp cannot abide formality when it estranges people from their own human nature. When confronted with such an environment, they revert to the old adage: “No one’s shit smells better than anyone else’s.” Pomposity annoys them for the same reason people who “take themselves way too seriously” do. INFps can take to rebelling against the contrived establishment, but their rebellion will usually manifest itself in less traditional ways. Instead of picketing and protesting, the INFp will write scathing poetry and prose, or turn to the truth and transcending power of music and art.

The habitations of INFps are, more often than not, visibly disorganized – messy even. However, they can be quite good at cleaning up when expecting company. They will not only clean up, but place impressive objects (oftentimes, their own artwork) “on display.” This is an extension of the elegance they wish to convey.

In appearance, they may become preoccupied with the emotional situation, and can often neglect the physical situation. As a result, inactive INFps can look “underdeveloped.” However, INFps generally do not dislike maintaining well-built bodies – they can take on a fondness for physical activity, especially when it promises a more attractive figure. (This applies to both male and female INFps.) It must be noted, though, that they will not focus on their physical health. Physical well being is merely a small facet of life – it will never become a focal point for an INFp. Despite this, they will often pay special attention to the way they dress. They don’t “dress to impress” exactly. They dress in order to convey – they are fond of wearing solid colors but will settle for anything that can be described as “striking” – in an understated way, of course! Their own insecurity forbids them from making an ostentatious show of dress. They are often attracted to countercultures, but will tend to create their own aesthetic interpretation of the fashion. “Hippie chic” and “ghetto fabulous” need no better model then an INFp.

The INFp is subtle in movement and speech. They desire to get under your skin, as opposed to forcing themselves upon you. They use their eyes as a vehicle of expression. Their smile often betrays what they really feel – it is shy, slightly sly, but warm and significant. They may appear unsure of themselves, but have a very charming shyness about them. Though INFps are quite shy, they are not internally anti-social. Deep down, they want to be at the center of an interesting, exciting social circle of bohemians, artists, and like-minded people. Among introverts, they can become restless when others will not take the initiative. Among extroverts, they can feel overwhelmed and reclusive.

A key word for this type is “empathy.” INFp children will often be the ones to ask their parents why they did not give the homeless man his spare change, or why that woman is crying. They are quite nurturing as parents – often because they can so clearly remember their own parent’s insensitivity. They are remarkably affectionate, but will never smother their children. INFp parents tend to be the most open-minded and tolerant of parents. They are not the type of parent to set down hard and fast expectations of Ivy League colleges and high-paying clerical jobs. An INFp child is devastated if their parent expresses disappointment and many INFps have horror stories of their own unhappy upbringing. For this reason, they tend to identify with their children rather than with their own role as a parent. Their credo on this subject: “The greatest thing I can hope for as a parent is that my child is content with himself, and noble in character.” The fact is, the INFp parent hopes for their child what they hope for themselves, but never seem to achieve (though, doesn’t everyone?).

INFps are genuinely selfless in relationships – if they love you, they will never act on it unless they are sure you want them to love you. As a result, dating can present many stumbling blocks (especially for the males of this type). True hopeless romantics, they want a storybook love life. However, they can be incredibly insecure. As a result, most will never take the first initiative. (Or the second, or the third, or the… you get my drift.) The INFp desire to be romanced, to be taken into love gracefully, rather than wandering in tentatively like everyone else. They desire strong partners, who love them genuinely, who will practice tolerance, and will not be afraid to lead the way when they themselves are unsure. They enjoy their sexuality – but with a fragility unlike others in the “Dramatic” category. They secretly want to be dominated, but only if their partner genuinely desires to dominate.

INFp by Function


Ni: The first function of the INFp is Ni, by which the essence of ideas arrive and insights into their development arise. With this function, it is possible index from within ones self an active belief system developed and derived through time, experience, knowledge, and the patterns of ones own personal life as entered through what could be considered a living journal. Every day and every hour and every minute of a person’s life is catalogued within this journal for future considerations and also for review of past successes and mistakes in order to make stunning predictions into the development of various concepts. Being an introverted function, Ni has an active ability to self-sustain itself and moves actively between an abstract theoretical world located in the future and past in order to sustain itself as an active function.

Ne: The seventh function of the this type is Ne. Strong and lacking, it remains to the INFp something to be loathed. Though some use may come from this function in the tracking of events, patterns, and simple gauging of current potential, this function remains the vehicle by which tradition establishes itself and the foreign get thrown out. For the INFp, Ne truly represents all that inferiority is and the uselessness of false potential, and so long as old beliefs remain and there remains something to be cherished, traditional belief stands before the new! Disloyalty to a cherished, strong, and qualified belief system will never interest an INFp!

Fe: The second function of the INFp is Fe, by which subjective feeling substantiates itself through various ethical processes. With this function, it is possible to collect multiple feelings, modes and trends of emotion in order to register them into a structured and growing databank of strong, ethical knowledge. Fe also maintains an active neutral stance on the entire whole of its inputs, even if the whole of the input of one emotional process conflicts with any of the other core processes it remains non-biased and registers them all as equals. Probably the most powerful aspect of Fe is the ability to not only stay well informed of new feelings, trends, and the changing moods of others in ways that may be utterly critical to survival in cooperative atmospheres, but the ability to convince through ethical implementations subjectively designed to reorganize and even direct the emotions of others into certain modes of ethical reasoning. This often includes the ability to cheer up others who are down, instinctual knowledge of the degree of tactful politeness to display to strangers, and influencing others to be kind to each other. Being an extroverted function, Fe cannot derive data from within and must amass information from outside of itself and in the here and now to survive as a function or at all.

Fi: The eigth function of the this type is Fi. Strong and lacking, it remains to the INFp something to be loathed. Though some use may come from this function in the analysis of moods, feelings, and ethics, this function remains the vehicle by which the old becomes abandoned and the new comes about. For the INFp, Ti truly represents all that inferiority is and the uselessness of false potential, and so long as new ways of emoting emerge and there remains something to be considered, out with the old and in with the new! Loyalty to a strong qualified ethical value system will never interest an INFp!

Si:
The third function of the INFp is Si, by which the essence of experiences arrive and insights into their development arise. Since the INFp type thrives in a world of abstract and non-concrete theoretical principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to maintain from within an active index of all experiences developed and derived through time, and the patterns of ones own personal life as gauged through the senses. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include losing track of ones own physical state and a deterioration of healthy physical practices, avoiding surrounding details or noticing too much detail and obsessing about it, suspicion or defensiveness about personal appearance, distant physical look in eyes and appearing to others as though unaware, walking or looking past people, objects, and things as though they were not there, static taste and inflexible habits, unsure of aesthetic understanding, or an obsession with cleanliness.

Se:
The fifth function of the INFp is Se, by which the essence of experiences arrive and insights into their development arise.Though be this a weak, unconscious, and influential function, it should find itself most active within the presence of one whose dominant function coincides, for it it seeks to be strong and may pretend to be such. At other times, an expression of this function may find itself in place of the weak and conscious Si function. Manifested bahaviours expected of this function should include demonstrating a tendency to exagerrate the effects of current experiences to seem better or worse than in reality, tending to accept the outcomes of negitive experiences or to tolerate bad reoccuring situations, ignorantly leaving good or bad experiences for bad or worse ones, tendency towards manipulating statistics into a favorable direction, and prone to biased onesidedness.

Te: The fourth function of the INFp is Te, by which objective logic substantiates itself through various thought processes. Since the INFp type thrives in a world of ethical and non-logical and subjective principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple thoughts, modes and trends of thinking in order to register them into a structured and growing databank of strong, factual knowledge. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include inflexibility to changing life situations, extreme formality or informality, not keeping promises, unable to concern themselves with keeping track of math related life skills, such as bookkeeping, income and living expenses, falling into temptation without calculating the cost, and misunderstanding or unaware of new modes of thinking and ways of doing things.

Ti:
The sixth function of the INFp is Ti, by which objective logic substantiates itself through various thought processes. Though be this a weak, unconscious, and influential function, it should find itself most active within the presence of one whose dominant function coincides, for it it seeks to be strong and may pretend to be such. At other times, an expression of this function may find itself in place of the weak and conscious Te function. Manifested bahaviours expected of this function should include a failure to research facts and giving off an aura of intellectualism, beginning with pure logic and ending in pure fantasy, misrepresenting knowledge to the point of embarassment, attempts at logical analysis produce childish results, exagerration of the truth to the point of storytelling, speaking in a factual tone with content that seems contradictory or out of context, continuous debate over subjects that are not worthy of debate, disappointment if not allowed to substantiate own logic.

________________________________________
Because of the structure of various function, it is not uncommon for a person to be confused or undecided between various types and even between the usage of various functions. The following is a functional description of various types that an actual INFp may become confused or undecided between.


ENTp
- An INFp may find him or her self activelly undecided between the ENTp type and his or her native INFp type. Because the sixth function of the INFp is Ti, it is not uncommon for one to confuse the second creative function (Fe) for that function. When this occurs, an INFp may have problems deciding between those ethical and logical functions. In even more complex situations, an INFp may demonstrate what appears to be a false lack of Fi, which corresponds to the fourth weakest function of the ENTp. In this instances, the way to discern between these two types and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you activelly use Ni or Ne. If you use Ni more than you use Ne, you are an INFp. If you use Ne more than you use Ni, you could really be an ENTp.

INTj - An INFp may confuse him or her self for a INTj for the same reason that one would confuse his or her self for an ENTp. If you use Ni more than you use Ne, you are probably an INFp. If you use Ne more than you use Ni, you could really be an INTj.

INTp - An INFp usually becomes confused between this type and his or her native INFp when he or she has decided upon being an introvert, determined self as a perceiving type, and has been having some influence from the sixth function, while not really being sure if that function is introverted or extroverted. In this senerio, instead of a INFp confusing his or her self for an ENTp the extroverted or introverted type has been substituted. In this instance, the way to discern between these two types and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you activelly use more Ti or Te. If you use Ti more than you use Te, you are probably an INFp. If you use Te more than you use Ti, you could really be an INTp.

ENFp
- Because of the influence of MBTI, some new to socionic's theory may ignorantly think that the correct way to switch between introverted and extroverted types is to simply switch an E to an I or an I to an E. This is not the correct way to switch back and forth between the two in socionics. If you are an ENFp in MBTI with an emphasis on expressing Ni and Fe, your actual socionics type is either an INFp if you choose to stay a perceiving type or ENFj if you find that you might want to consider being a socionic's judging type . On the otherhand, if the above INFp description does not relate to you and you functionally express Ne and Fi, ENFp is still an option, though be warned that socionics does not totally follow the same logic as MBTI does when determining J and P nor do the same stereotypical rules apply when attempting to determine introversion and extroversion. If you are familiar with MBTI, the possibility of having to type yourself totally diffrent than MBTI should be a definite expectation.
 

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MOTM Dec 2011
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This is a great description. There's no fluffy bunny here ;). It hits on a lot of good points that many profiles miss. Some of the details are amusingly accurate for me, especially regarding dress & ideally wanting to be in a bohemian social circle.

The "INFp" with the small p usually means it is Socionics though....? I find Ni Fe descriptions in Socionics to fit me better than Fi Ne in Socionics, but I firmly feel I am Fi-dom. In MBTI, INFP (Fi Ne) profiles suit me better than INFJ (Ni Fe). It's weird how the functions change, yet the descriptions feel similar....

A few exceptions for me:

-INFps are distinguished by their sense of humor. Their humor is spontaneous, cutely ironic, and oftentimes rather random.


I wouldn't say that my humor distinguishes me. It can be unusual, but it's not a defining aspect of my personality.

-At their core, INFps cannot bear being disliked – they would rather die beloved than live despised.

I don't like this part.....well, it's not true for me anyway. That cheesy quote, "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not" is more true for me. (Is that the INFP Kurt Cobain I am quoting? I think so....hahaha!). I also occasionally take a perverse delight when people dislike me - it's a little bit of an elitist attitude: "They just cannot understand me".

-They may put on a facade of being under the influence of any number of substances, and as a result may appear childish, out-of-touch, and spacey.

I may appear spacey, but it's not a facade I put on, and I definitely don't want to appear intoxicated. Rather, I almost feel intoxicated, as I can get overwhelmed by stimuli and my head starts to swim.

-A spurned INFp will not usually concentrate on ways to hurt the offender.

I can be pretty revengeful, but I try to not let that petty side of me get the best of me. Wallowing is what I call "steaming", meaning I let the emotion evaporate before acting so I don't make rash decisions. I suppose this is true of me at my best then.
 

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Taking sides

Is it just me, or has anyone else realised that MBTI and Socionics are completely, totally, mutually exclusive? These two systems of personality typing are totally incompatible from their fundamentals upwards.

All the groundwork - that's ALL the groundwork - for personality typing was done by Jung. His 8 personality types categorised people on the basis of their dominant function alone. So ISFPs and INFPs actually found themselves as the same 'type' under Jung's system, because introverted feeling is their dominant function. Personality type theory was a system devised by Jung to help him better understand his patients/clients as a counsellor, and it represents, by volume, a very tiny percentage of his total life's work. The 16 types of the MBTI, derived by Myers and Briggs from Jung's original 8 types, further categorised people by making the secondary function an attribute of type. At this point people sharing a dominant function but having different secondary functions became members of different types, as in ISFP/INFP, for example.

Fast forward a few decades to the point where personality typing is now a revenue earner and... cue Socionics, the great pretender.

Socionics has taken Jungs work and the later work by Myers and Briggs, it has re-labelled everything, swapped things around, bastardised it, and then presented the stolen, reworked ideas as if Socionics is some new and original system. Oh yes, and they charge for it, something Jung, Myers and Briggs never did.

As long as Socionics asserts that

(quote)
Ni: The first function of the INFp is Ni

and

Fi: The eigth function of the this type is Fi. Strong and lacking, it remains to the INFp something to be loathed

-- then as far as I'm concerned, Socionics is just a load of 'me-too' crap, a bandwaggon jumping, money spinning blowhard system trying to muscle in on what has become a lucrative market.

It isn't possible for someone to have Fi both as their dominant AND 8th (loathed) function. Unless somebody simply renamed all the functions, maybe?
Socionics and MBTI are completely, totally and absolutely incompatible.

As for the Socionics description of INFP, posted at the start of the thread, it might, just might, at a stretch, describe some adolescent INFPs in rich western countries. However as an INFP with a bit of life experience under my belt, I can vouch for the fact that it barely scratches the surface of many post-adolescent INFPs, and when the cultural assumptions are removed, it's just a generic appeal to people who like to have their existing notions about themselves confirmed and validated.

Since I aren't prepared to pay Socionics for access to the main body of their 'work', maybe someone who does have full access to their site can answer the following question?

Some years ago, before Socionics adopted their current fiscal policy, they claimed that (quote from memory) "INFPs are the type most likely to marry for money".

Do Socionics still claim this for INFP? And if not, why not? Surely their 'truths' aren't mutable?
 

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The Imaginative INFp was discussed here @ PC in November. Some may remember the responses at that time about the difference in MBTI INFP and Socionics INFp. It was recommended by Tree Bob that this description NOT be pinned, yet it is pinned now and called "The Best Description of INFP". Huh? I soooooo agree with what whisperycat says "has anyone else realised that MBTI and Socionics are completely, totally, mutually exclusive? These two systems of personality typing are totally incompatible from their fundamentals upwards."

Ray Bradbury, the American science fiction writer was an Socionics INFp ( source ).

Celebrities of this type (INFp):

Hugh GRANT (actor, US)
Liza KUDROW (actress, US)
Edward NORTON (actor, US)
Chulpan KHAMATOVA (actress, Russia)
Jennifer ANISTON (actress, US)
Frederic CHOPIN (composer, Poland—France, XIX century)
Jean Jacques ROUSSEAU (philosopher, Switzerland, XVIII century)
Friedrich Wilhelm SCHELLING (philosopher, Germany, XIX century)
Ray BRADBURY (writer, US)
Romain HARY (writer, FRANCE, also known as Emile AJART)
Nikolai GOGOL (writer and Christian philosopher, Russia)
Marceilles PROUST (writer, France)
Paul CELAN (German poet, lived in Romania and France)
Nikolai BUKHARIN (politician, Soviet Union),
Laura BUSH (president's wife, US)
Yuri GAGARIN (cosmonaut, Soviet Union)
Georgi MALENKOV (politician, Soviet Union)
Nikolai RYZHKOV (politician, Soviet Union)


Per this description of the INFp, these are supposed to ring true:

INFps mainly have slim figures
Their gait is usually graceful and full of poise as they like to project an image of self-worthiness
During conversation INFps have a tendency to maintain eye contact and to touch their interlocutors hand.
INFps have a very good understanding of harmony and know well how to successfully combine clothes and accessories, resulting in their characteristic, elegant appearance.
They are also inclined to small talk.
INFps have a good instinct for commercial and business matters
INFps are inclined to make empty promises
They like an extravagant style of life which is why their demands often outweigh their resources.
INFps more than any other type are inclined to marry because of wealth instead of love.


hmmm.. doesn't sound like my preferences, but maybe it is yours?
 

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MOTM Dec 2011
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Is it just me, or has anyone else realised that MBTI and Socionics are completely, totally, mutually exclusive? These two systems of personality typing are totally incompatible from their fundamentals upwards.
This is very true.

I personally like this description, but it's really describing Ni Fe. In socionics, the J/P refer to the dominant function, not the main extroverted function. Some people say that you can just switch the J/P (ie. INFp = INFJ in MBTI), but others say it's still not a clean translation. I'm with the latter; Socionics seems to deviate too far from Jung to combine with MBTI. Where MBTI built on the foundation of Jung's theory, Socionics seemed to tear it up & build something entirely new out of it. Because of that, I greatly prefer MBTI, even if it is also guilty of generalizing in its profiles and over-simplifying the theory. I realize that was done to get it to the masses, but I still hate when people think P/J are functions :tongue:.

I've also read some Socionics descriptions which are truly awful, like that one on socionics.com. That site is just a joke to me - entertaining, but frivolous in its information. However, I've read a few descriptions on other sites that had less strange stereotypes and that were pretty good.

Even though I feel the OP is one of those pretty good descriptions, I can see how it sometimes describes some very specific behavior, and that is not a good thing to do when describing a personality type. Noting patterns in tendencies is one thing, but pigeon-holing is another. It does focus on trivial, shallow behavior in parts and not on larger patterns shown in a type. I've seen MBTI profiles do that also though. I appreciate that this profile is not too fluffy, and I do think it makes some good points about the general behavior of the type. I admit it's uncanny for me in some of the trivial details it hits on. However, the fact that it is describing Ni Fe and yet sounding closer to an MBTI Fi Ne profile is annoying and exactly why I tend to dismiss Socionics. Based on Jung's theory, I am convinced I am Fi-dom, but Socionics seems to have changed what that means.
 

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I was once asked by somebody if I was a pot head. When I asked her why she said "your sense of humour is really strange."

Ive never smoked pot in my life... its just the way I am.:crazy:
 

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It is hard to just see the conclusions of the research and decide what to believe... we have not done the research therefore don't really understand it too well.
 

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Socionics vs MBTI

Hello...this is my first post but I've been reading forums like this and about personality types for over a year now.

Anyway, the reason I'm finally posting is because this Socionics vs MBTI argument has been driving me crazy for a long time. I would love someone to prove me wrong, but I actually think Socionics is closer to Jung's original theory (I have his 'Psychological Types' book). Here's why:

  • Jung calls the Ni and Si types the 'Introverted Irrational types"
  • He makes it clear that these types 'lack judgement'. So this would mean that Ni and Si types are perceivers.
  • But in MBTI, these types would be Judging types!
Here is a key description Jung gives of these 'Introverted Irrational Types':

"As their main activity is directed inwards, nothing is outwardly visible but reserve, secretiveness, lack of sympathy, uncertainty, and an apparently groundless embarassment" -sounds very INFP to me.

Depressingly, he also says that these types' "efforts to be forthcoming are, as a matter of fact, of an inferior character". In other words, Jung is saying that other people only see their weaker secondary function (Fe in the case of an INFP).

Oh, and one more thing. If every 'INFP' on this forum took the Socionics test, there would be a split of INFjs and INFps. Doesn't anyone else see that there seems to be two types of people here? The more value oriented people (Fi dominant INFjs), and the more imaginative people (Ni dominant INFps).

I need other people's opinions of this, because as an INFP, I'm typically unsure of any conclusions I come to. :confused: Sorry if I haven't explained it well -I don't expect many replies very soon!
 

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Hello...this is my first post but I've been reading forums like this and about personality types for over a year now.

Anyway, the reason I'm finally posting is because this Socionics vs MBTI argument has been driving me crazy for a long time. I would love someone to prove me wrong, but I actually think Socionics is closer to Jung's original theory (I have his 'Psychological Types' book). Here's why:

  • Jung calls the Ni and Si types the 'Introverted Irrational types"
  • He makes it clear that these types 'lack judgement'. So this would mean that Ni and Si types are perceivers.
  • But in MBTI, these types would be Judging types!
Here is a key description Jung gives of these 'Introverted Irrational Types':

"As their main activity is directed inwards, nothing is outwardly visible but reserve, secretiveness, lack of sympathy, uncertainty, and an apparently groundless embarassment" -sounds very INFP to me.

Depressingly, he also says that these types' "efforts to be forthcoming are, as a matter of fact, of an inferior character". In other words, Jung is saying that other people only see their weaker secondary function (Fe in the case of an INFP).

Oh, and one more thing. If every 'INFP' on this forum took the Socionics test, there would be a split of INFjs and INFps. Doesn't anyone else see that there seems to be two types of people here? The more value oriented people (Fi dominant INFjs), and the more imaginative people (Ni dominant INFps).

I need other people's opinions of this, because as an INFP, I'm typically unsure of any conclusions I come to. :confused: Sorry if I haven't explained it well -I don't expect many replies very soon!
Ni & Si dominants in MBTI are called "judgers" because their extroverted functions are judging (ie. for an INFJ, their auxiliary function is Fe). The face they present to the world is a judging one, so yes, the weaker auxiliary function is how people see them. That's why MBTI has introverted perceiving dominant types called "J" and introverted judging dominants called "P". The J/P determines which function is extroverted, not which is dominant.

Socionics labels them by their dominant function, not their extroverted function, so INFP should equal INFj in Socionics, but it doesn't, because Socionics has deviated from Jungian theory, where MBTI has mostly "built" on it.... Have you read "Gifts Differing" yet? That's the book that started the MBTI system. It explains how the letters relate to the functions and why the system was made the way it is.

Jung's description of Fi describes a person who is also somewhat passive, inexpressive of their complex inner world, and not showing much positive emotion.

Jung on the Introverted Feeling Type said:
'Still waters run deep' is very true of such [a person]. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and their temperament is inclined to melancholy. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. As they are mainly guided by their subjective feelings, their true motives generally remain hidden.

If this outward aspect is more pronounced, it arouses a suspicion of indifference and coldness....

.....strangers are shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but are met with apparent indifference or a repelling coldness.

Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly...
Jung on Fi said:
[Fi] seldom appears on the surface and is generally misunderstood. It is a feeling which seems to devalue the object, and it therefore manifests itself for the most part negatively. The existence of positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly.

It makes people silent and difficult of access; it shrinks back like a violet from the brute nature of the object in order to fill the depths of the subject. It comes out with negative judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference as a means of defense.
 

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Thanks, I was hoping you would be the replyer -you seem to know a lot about the functions.

I am aware that in MBTI, Judging or Perceiving is determined by the extraverted function. But this is where it seems to differ from Jung's original idea -he makes it pretty clear that Ni & Si dominants are perceivers.

Is this where you're saying that MBTI 'has mostly built on it', and that Jung was originally wrong about typing people by their dominant function alone? Has Myers understood the types better than Jung did?

Jung's description of Fi describes a person who is also somewhat passive, inexpressive of their complex inner world, and not showing much positive emotion.
But could this be a description of an INFJ/ISFJ?

Have you read "Gifts Differing" yet?
I actually just got the book this morning! Hopefully that will organise my mind. I think my main problem is that (as far as I know) I've never met another INFP or an INFJ in my life, so it's hard for me to compare with anyone and work out what functions they use.
 

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Thanks, I was hoping you would be the replyer -you seem to know a lot about the functions.

I am aware that in MBTI, Judging or Perceiving is determined by the extraverted function. But this is where it seems to differ from Jung's original idea -he makes it pretty clear that Ni & Si dominants are perceivers.

Is this where you're saying that MBTI 'has mostly built on it', and that Jung was originally wrong about typing people by their dominant function alone? Has Myers understood the types better than Jung did?


But could this be a description of an INFJ/ISFJ?



I actually just got the book this morning! Hopefully that will organise my mind. I think my main problem is that (as far as I know) I've never met another INFP or an INFJ in my life, so it's hard for me to compare with anyone and work out what functions they use.
Ni & Si doms ARE dominant perceivers, as Ni & Si are perceiving functions. In MBTI, IxFJs are given the letter J because of the face they present to the world (the auxiliary function). EVERYONE perceives & judges though, but one function will be preferred & thus be dominant. As said above, MBTI labels based on the extroverted function, not the dominant function, which is why an INFP is a P even though the dominant function is a judging one (Fi). However, it's the definitions of the functions themselves in MBTI that are closer to Jung's prototypes; Socionics seems to create its own definitions. Jung's Fi-dom IS both imaginative and value-oriented, but Socionics seems to reduce Fi to simply being "ethical".

Jung's idea stopped at the dominant functions though - he did not go on to make a system which paired it with an auxiliary function and inferior functions, although he made small comments that implied he believed that people had use of the other functions (and how those functions may be determined). So Jung never made full personality types, but rather created descriptions of a "pure" type who is one function, and of course, no real person amounts to one function. As you read Gifts Differing, you will see how MBTI expounded on Jung's theory and made a typing system, but did not change what his function definitions are. That is why the MBTI INFP is an imaginative person with a strong sense of inner values.

No, I don't think that could be a description of an IxFJ because it is a description of a Fi-dom, so it would apply to an IxFP in MBTI. Since Socionics labeling is different, it may apply to an INFj, since INFj is Fi-dom, but I notice that Socionics seems to define Fi differently than Jung does. That's why mixing MBTI and Socionics is like mixing oil & water :wink:.
 

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Originally Posted by OrangeAppled
Jung's idea stopped at the dominant functions though - he did not go on to make a system which paired it with an auxiliary function and inferior functions, although he made small comments that implied he believed that people had use of the other functions (and how those functions may be determined).
The part of the book that explained this was the answer I was looking for, so I'm back to preferring MBTI! Jung's "one function" definitions were what confused me. He typed Ni and Si dominants as perceiving types, but obviously this is because he wasn't taking the other functions into account. Most of the other information in 'Gifts Differing' I already knew, but it does organise my mind.

I would still like to know how INFJs/ISFJs 'perceive' their inner world. It just seems odd to me that someone can be inwardly uncertain but outwardly judging. Wouldn't someone's inner world affect how they act in the outside world?

Originally Posted by Raakakaakao
Personally I couldn't give F**k less about some tart with a huge fortune.."inclined to marry for money" I would go as far as to say big money makin' might be exactly why I wouldn't marry someone.
I agree that this socionics description is ridiculous, but the whole of socionics . com seems wrong. Seems like it's been translated badly from the Russian language.
 

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I really don't see eye to eye with a lot of this. The function order is wack as well. Ni?....yea right.
socionics is a whole other systemmm....

The part of the book that explained this was the answer I was looking for, so I'm back to preferring MBTI! Jung's "one function" definitions were what confused me. He typed Ni and Si dominants as perceiving types, but obviously this is because he wasn't taking the other functions into account. Most of the other information in 'Gifts Differing' I already knew, but it does organise my mind.

I would still like to know how INFJs/ISFJs 'perceive' their inner world. It just seems odd to me that someone can be inwardly uncertain but outwardly judging. Wouldn't someone's inner world affect how they act in the outside world?

ok... I quoted the wrong thing... but you mentioned INFP's being split into a fi dominant and Ni dominant groups...
yeah! I think that happens with the INFJ's too because we get into some crazy debates from misscomunication...
I noticed it... and noticed socionics and was like... wwelll hey... this connection makes sense...
so I have thought the same thing. you are not crazy...

I agree that this socionics description is ridiculous, but the whole of socionics . com seems wrong. Seems like it's been translated badly from the Russian language.
also.. yeah... ha ha... I was reading the descriptions and laughed a bit... cause the spelling mistakes were quite funny. but so are my own. lol
I think socionics is more accurate for me.
but hey doing both could help too ya know...
especially if you are not sure about function use.
I am INFp and INFJ
but relate more to socionics version... rather than the semi-psychic INFJ.
and I really REALLY love this description... describes me pretty well.

a lot of INFP/INFj and INFJ/INFj don't like it because of the looks part...
anyway... I thought it was pretty cool.
 

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Originally Posted by GreenCoyote
but hey doing both could help too ya know...especially if you are not sure about function use.
I've taken the socionics test and turn out INFp in that as well, which means I'm Ni dominant in socionics and Fi dominant in MBTI. But I don't think this means much because the functions themselves have different meanings.

Perhaps Socionics is just about how we act, because its main use is for seeing how different types get on with each other. This would lead us to relate to the decription here more, because we can actually see how we act.

MBTI is supposed to measure how our brains function, so I guess this would be harder for them to write more detailed descriptions of. Anyway, I hate how I always have to over-analyse everything!
 
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