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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. Just made the socionics test a few minutes ago (if you know it.)

Welcome to socionics.com!

its a russian personality test, more based on Jungs Theoreys then MBTI (if I understood right..)

at the test you have to pick the adjectives who describe you well, and then pick them wich dont. (it was hard to understand the most words for me..)

and well: i scored: at E / I : I
S / N : N
F / T : F

but at J / P:
Code:
Normal mode	                 Reversed mode	                Combined mode
conscious  	unconscious	conscious	     unconscious	conscious	       unconscious
      p 	                 j 	               p 	              j 	               p 	                j
so, i want to be P, but am J? (lol)


Scoring Factor:


Code:
Normal mode	Reversed mode	Combined mode
        0.93 	          0.97 	                 0.95 

The Scoring factor shows how much you are aware of your type and/or the testing procedure. Anything close to and above 0.8 is considered high and could interfere with authenticity of the test outcome.

This summarises your type as one of the following (in alphabetical order):

INFj a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath",
INFp a.k.a. Intuitive-Ethical Intratim "The Romantic".


And i got a decision question:

[click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your physical and spiritual self.

[click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your intellectual and emotional self.


A hard question for me, and I dont know, both fit to me.. I guess
But i picked the first one intuitive..

and got then:

Although the test results show that your type could be either of the above, you think it is:

INFj a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath".


"
Code:
By preference	                    By function	                       MBTI® Type Dynamics
          INFj                                       Ethical-Intuitive                                  Fi,Ne,Si,Te

If your type is INFj a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath", you are confident and concrete regarding how you feel about something or someone, creative and inventive regarding your ability to recognise common tendencies and possibilities, delicate and insecure regarding the necessities and sensations of your body, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your expertise in know-how and how-to."


But isnt INFJ at MBTI: Ni,Fe,Ti,Se ???
and INFP Fi,Ne,Si,Te....


and INFP is discribed by socionics:

"
Code:
By preference	                    By function	                       MBTI® Type Dynamics
          INFp                                        Intuitive-Ethical                           Ni,Fe,Ti,Se
If your type is INFp a.k.a. Intuitive-Ethical Intratim "The Romantic", you are confident and concrete regarding your own beliefs and fantasies, creative and inventive regarding how excited others are about you, delicate and insecure regarding your understanding of how things work, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your physical strength or position of authority."


But the describing text seems to fit, or?

But I really dont think that i am INFJ, im too chaotic/daydreaming/spontaneous...


Can some INFP make that test too? would be interesting for me... ;)


Ahhh, and one thing i wanted to mention: the socionics more lay stress on the compatibility between the types, if i understood right..

so for INFP they suggest:

ESTp - "The Conqueror" ****
INFp - "The Romantic" ***
ISTj - "The Pragmatist" **
ENFj - "The Actor" *

("* * * * - "Relations of Duality". The partners usually appear to be very different in every respect and yet have almost ungraspable similarity, as if they were the two opposite sides of the same coin. These relations can provide a complete psychological supplement and could easily be the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations.

* * * - "Identical Relations". The partners usually appear to be very similar in every respect, having similar perceptions, views and often even tastes. These relations can offer the partners much deeper understanding of each other's hopes and intentions but may be of little help when the partners have to deal with the similar problems they have.

* * - "Relations of Activity". The partners are naturally able to fire up and motivate each other into mutual activity, which with prolonged interaction may over-stimulate and drain the partners. These relations are usually an easy starter and could be very pleasant and fun, best suitable for short leisure breaks and undemanding relationships.

* - "Mirror Relations". The partners can often amaze and surprise each other with an interesting and unexpectedly original way of thinking or dealing with things. However, the surprises can be as amazing as they can be bewildering. These relations can often help the partners to realise their creative potential, but not without the cost of a good argument.

NOTE: Intertype compatibility only shows the compatibility between the psychological types of people. The compatibility between actual individuals however, consists of many different factors, including the intertype compatibility. The best compatibility does not necessarily imply mutual attraction.")


Its interesting that ESTp is the best fitting partner... o_o


/edit: and thats my MBTI profile btw:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Okay, what are you INFPs saying to this discription of INFPs?

From the site above:
INFps are usually uneconomical in financial matters. They find it difficult to refuse their whimsical desires. This can often lead them into financial difficulties and can result in them having to borrow money if they do not have sufficient money reserves. They like an extravagant style of life which is why their demands often outweigh their resources. INFps more than any other type are inclined to marry because of wealth instead of love. INFps will often accumulate their complaints in order release them all in one go in an appropriate situation. In fact, people who show concern about INFps health and well being and who listen to their problems are very much appreciated.
Whaaaat? I never would merry couse of the wealth..

/edit:

and a second link about INFps: INFp uncovered

As far as other people are concerned, INFps can be very productive, making them good social workers, musicians, entertainers, media, etc. In contrast, INFp's ability to think logically is circumstantial and limited to memorised examples, which makes them poor experts in technological fields, especially when the situation requires non-ordinary solutions. This, however, does not stop INFps from becoming sloppy engineers, sloppy mechanics, sloppy programmers, sloppy you name it.
Thats really, really putting me down now.. :(
 

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Judging by the warning box that said "the following may unintentionally offend you in some way" when I tried to follow the INFp uncovered link, I'd say it was likely a joke.

As for the rest, J/P switch - Wikisocion should help clear it up a bit.

(I tested INTj in socionics as well.... but there's not a chance I'm an INTJ :proud:).


oh... and *high five*'s Numi for looking into it that deeply and recognizing the difference in cognitive functions before posting. I've had to explain that difference about 5 or 6 times around this forum already--and those are just the threads I've seen.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
but its a bit confusing.. when im an INFP at MBTI, and an INFj at Socionics, but the p/j means the same(1)... so only the functions are switched(2)... what am i really now?

I mean, I think im definitive P (now i mean not the charakterization of INF>P<, i mean the charakterization of P(1 again))
So.. someone has to be wrong.. not?

am I fi, ne, si, te ... or ni, fe, si, te?

Though i tend much more to the MBTI INFP one..

Awww, thats rly cracking my mind now.. xD

PS: thanks for your answers!
ah, and thanks for the flowers:
and *high five*'s Numi for looking into it that deeply and recognizing the difference in cognitive functions before posting.
;)


(1)
from socionics.com
Perceiving vs. Judging

Perceiving types are motivated into activity by the changes in a situation. Judging types are motivated into activity by their decisions resulting from the changes in a situation. The most common differences between Perceiving and Judging types are shown below:

Perceiving types

* act impulsively following the situation
* can start many things at once without finishing them properly
* prefer to have freedom from obligations
* are curious and like a fresh look at things
* work productivity depends on their mood
* often act without any preparation

Judging types

* do not like to leave unanswered questions
* plan work ahead and tend to finish it
* do not like to change their decisions
* have relatively stable workability
(2)
from the wiki
Therefore, if we look at the functional structure of an MBTI INFP, we actually see the functions of a socionics EII (or INFj):
 

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What subtype are you? I'm ILE-Ti (ENTP with stronger(or)balance Ti)
 

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but its a bit confusing.. when im an INFP at MBTI, and an INFj at Socionics, but the p/j means the same(1)... so only the functions are switched(2)... what am i really now?

I mean, I think im definitive P (now i mean not the charakterization of INF>P<, i mean the charakterization of P(1 again))
So.. someone has to be wrong.. not?

am I fi, ne, si, te ... or ni, fe, si, te?
I read once that another way of interpreting the J/P preference is that it indicates the strongest extroverting function in MBTI. In MBTI, INFP = Fi-Ne-Si-Te. The N/S dichotomy is called the "perceiving" preference, as in the Perceiving that P represents (and T/F indicates the judging preference, as in the Judging lifestyle). Therefore INFP's strongest extroverting function is their perceiving function, or Ne. I'm not familiar with Socionics, so I don't know how to explain that one to you.
 

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It's done by the dominant function. So an INTj will have Ti dominant, because Thinking is a judging function. Instead of whatever's the strongest extroverted function (MBTI), it's the strongest function in general.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I read once that another way of interpreting the J/P preference is that it indicates the strongest extroverting function in MBTI. In MBTI, INFP = Fi-Ne-Si-Te. The N/S dichotomy is called the "perceiving" preference, as in the Perceiving that P represents (and T/F indicates the judging preference, as in the Judging lifestyle). Therefore INFP's strongest extroverting function is their perceiving function, or Ne. I'm not familiar with Socionics, so I don't know how to explain that one to you.
Thanks for the information, but that doesnt answer my question (or it does, but i dont understand ;))

When now socioncs says: No! When you are INF P your dominant Function is Ni, and not Fi! couse we have another system (or whatever)

but thats just crazy! i mean, when the Functions mean the same (what i guess, they are, couse they base on Jung..) someone has to be wrong, or the whole thing is without sense..

I neither cant make now a test which says: well guys, thats INfP, the f is the same as the MBTI one, but its just switching the whole functions of INFP, now your Fe, Se, Ti, Ni .. now go and have fun.

or is it depending on which test i made first? so if i made first the socionics test i would have now NI, Fe, as Functions? o_O


@cryptonia: okay, so at socionics the INTj guy is Ti ... and at the MBTI he is Te.
So in america he is an extroverted thinker, but in russia hes an introvert one?


Sry guys, its really confusing me :(

/edit: @Th3 Bad Wolf:

What subtype are you? I'm ILE-Ti (ENTP with stronger(or)balance Ti)
subtype? huh, dont know...


/edit: okay, found a good describtion... and maybe i understand now:

from: http://www.students.meduniwien.ac.at/~n0102122/articles/jung.htm
According to Myers J/P refers to the strongest extroverted function. This means: For an introverted person, J means that the auxiliary function is a judging one - not the dominant function since that one is introverted. In other models such as the one by the School of Socionics, however, J and P always refer to the dominant function. Therefore, if you bump into the description of an introverted type in the Internet or in a book, you always ought to check what model this description is based on.
Why is Myers doing this? Why she thinks that the P/J only refers to the extroverted function?!
And becouse Jung is the psychologist, and Myers seems to be not (or?) ... it looks more that the socionic one is right, and MBTI wrong (if you could say that actually)
..maybe i should now read the INFJ stuff ^^


This means for instance: If a person takes the MBTI test and is tested as INTJ, he/she has introverted intuiting and extroverted thinking as dominant/auxiliary functions according to Myers, while according to Sonionics, he/she has introverted thinking and extroverted intuiting as dominant/auxiliary functions. Although the test was created by Myers, it's usually the description of the INTJ type according to Socionics that applies more. So you have to be careful. What's dangerous is that due to this inconsistency, introverted people are at high risk of being wrongly assessed by their potential employees.
 

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Hey Numi, I was looking at socionomics also, and had perplexion with the inter-type theory suggestions.

Some of the predictions of compatibility seem inscisive and accurate. The problems between INTps against, INTjs, ENTps, ISTps and INFPs for example rang true.
-- but then I was highly surprised to see that it recommended ESFPs as the perfect match for INTPs, the 'dual relation'.
That doesn't seem right.
It also recommended ISFPs as activity partners. Hmmm.

I kinda want to believe this stuff is valid-- because it presents a very elegant framework that claims to predict all of the possible dynamics between the various types.

Also the cognitive functions are reversed. INTPs have extraverted thinking and intraverted intuition suddenly. Ugh?

I'd like someone whose analysed the two systems thoroughly to tell me the true worth of socionics.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Kaj said:
Also the cognitive functions are reversed. INTPs have extraverted thinking and intraverted intuition suddenly. Ugh?
yea, this one bugged me too

we could argue that russians are weird people with reversed personalitys and inventing systems to create couples with the greatest possible operational capability
(have an INFP here? well lets put him with an ESTP to make him actually usefull)

lol
 

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I'm mostly an INFP in MBTI, but in socionics, I also score INFp. I guess it depends on the strength of your preferences?
 

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Just did the test and scored INFj, strong IN not so strong Fj. On the humanmetrics site (MBTI test) I score INFJ, strong INF, weak J. I think my conscientiousness is about 50-50. I also believe I use Ni every now and then.

EII = INFP
IEI = INFJ
Socionics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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wow..this does look confusing. I hadn't really looked at socionics before, so I kinda wondered.

I think what someone else said made sense for the difference in J/P
It's done by the dominant function. So an INTj will have Ti dominant, because Thinking is a judging function. Instead of whatever's the strongest extroverted function (MBTI), it's the strongest function in general.
If J or P indicates your dominant function and that function is Fi, then J corresponds with that.
If J or P indicates your dominant extroverted function then if you are Dominant Fi with Auxiliary Ne P will correspond with that Ne.

I guess that makes sense to me.
I'd just say go with whatever description you feel fits you best. The tests are just a way to help you think about and discover yourself. Go with whatever "rings true" for you.


As for those relationship suggestions....I don't know about that personally. I don't think I would be happy in a relationship with a T, and having grown up with a J I'm not sure I'd enjoy to keep living with one either.
 

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Honestly, I don't trust Socionics very much...

I took that test too. I'm definitely an INFJ, but the test said I'm either an INTJ or INTP. :p I guess it's close enough, but meh.

The type descriptions sound more like they were written with bias (ESPECIALLY the "uncovered" ones) and it just seems like the person met a bunch of people of whatever type then used their similarities to write a type description on them. ...or something.

You shouldn't be offended by the "uncovered" descriptions particularly, because those sound more like rants than "uncovering" a type. XD I just read them for the laughs (though some of it was just...OUCH), and I actually wish they had an INFJ one because I want to know what it'd say.

Anyways, if you're an INFP, you're an INFP. If socionics says no, go look at something else. :p
 

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Count me in as one who doesn't put too much weight into it, having scored both INFp AND INFj. None of their descriptions really match me (unlike INFP descriptions) and the INFp ALMOST described me (I loved the elegance part, etc.) EXCEPT NO WAY I WOULD MARRY FOR MONEY, EVER!!! No matter if I like to wear nice things. I rather be a savvy shopper than marry for money. :p
 

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Guess what?! INFJ is very complicated... if you think you are both, you are probably an infj... an infj can identify with a few other personality types :)


I am a romantic and dreamy INFJ, the other depends on circumstance.
 
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