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Lotus Jester
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Type indicator

Thanks @Abraxas


IMO, the best way to go about it is to just take the following test:

Type indicator

And then whatever MBTI type you get from that, just go straight over to the exact same Socionics type, don't flip the J/P either. Ignore the functions, they don't really matter. It's a level of detail that isn't necessary. It's like taking your car to the mechanic and explaining what's wrong by describing hydrocarbons and thermodynamics instead of just saying "I think the spark plugs are out." The dichotomies are all you need. They are the macro-scale, functions are the micro-scale and aren't that important. When you build a house, you don't need to know the particle physics that describes the molecular structure of the wood. You just bang on nails and get it done.
I didn't want to clutter up the Alpha thread with my test scores; so, for anyone who need yet another socionics tests, this is about as good as they come.

INTP
INTP: Seek to develop logical explanations for everything that interests them. Theoretical and abstract, interested more in ideas than in social interaction. Quiet, contained, flexible, and adaptable. Have unusual ability to focus in depth to solve problems in their area of interest. Skeptical, sometimes critical, always analytical.
Dominant function: Introverted Thinking.
Auxiliary function: Extraverted Intuition.


Extraversion
People who prefer Extraversion tend to focus on the outer world of people and things. E 4 17 I Introversion
People who prefer Intraversion tend to focus on the inner world of ideas and impressions.

Sensing
People who prefer Sensing tend to focus on the present and on concrete information gained from the senses. S 0 26 N Intuition
People who prefer Intuition tend to focus on the future, with a view toward patterns and possibilities.

Thinking
People who prefer Thinking tend to base their decitions primarilly on logic and on objective analysis of cause and effect. T 15 9 F Feeling
People who prefer Feeling tend to base their decisions primarilly on values and on subjective evaluation of person-centered concerns.

Judging
People who prefer Judging tend to like a planned and organized approach to life and prefer to have things settled. J 6 15 P Perceiving
People who prefer Perceiving tend to like a flexible and spontaneous approach to life and prefer to keep their options open.




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Preference clarity


I
clear

N
very clear

T
moderate

P
moderate


See more detailed information about INTP
 

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@NichirenWarrior,

Just in case, you should know that's an MBTI test, not a socionics test. So, it's only meant to give you some idea of what your sociotype might be, since there are similarities between the MBTI dichotomies and the Jungian dichotomies of socionics. But as I'm sure you've heard before, they don't quite match. So I would just take your MBTI type as a starting point for guessing, like just kind of a hint at where to begin with your sociotype. Socionics focuses a lot more on the functions/information elements and if you really want to nail it down, the best thing to do is learn about those and then pick whichever one you resonate with the best.

In fact (I don't know how much you've already read about Socionics) if you're just getting started, my advice is to avoid what is called "Model A" entirely. Start with the so-called, "Model J." Model J is the "Jungian" model of socionics developed by Ekaterina Filatova, and it is easier to learn because it only uses 4 functions instead of 8. It is still compatible with Model A and the rest of Socionics, it just focuses on the 4 most "important" functions in a person so you can really quickly and easily identify a type.

Unfortunately I don't have a link to a page or an article explaining Model J, but there is a book on Amazon you can buy that explains it. The book is great, I own a copy myself, and it actually has a Socionics test at the back of the book for figuring out your type.

Understanding the People Around You: An Introduction to Socionics: Ekaterina Sergeevna Filatova: 9780967990767: Amazon.com: Books
 

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Lotus Jester
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, I did take that test as well as another Socionics test and I also got INTP. I was confused because the socionics site said that the J and P are opposite of what you would get for introverts in MBTI but I got INTP for both.
 
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Thanks, I did take that test as well as another Socionics test and I also got INTP. I was confused because the socionics site said that the J and P are opposite of what you would get for introverts in MBTI but I got INTP for both.
I think it's because the MBTI J/P dichotomy has more in common with the rational/irrational dichotomy of Socionics than a lot of people here would care to admit. All of these websites you come across (like wikisocion, socionics workshop, socionics in the west, etc) kind of beat the drum when it comes to "MBTI =/= SOCIONICS". They put tons of emphasis on what they don't have in common, but this, I think, creates the misconception that they don't have a lot in common. They do diverge tremendously on very key and important things, but I still think one can use their MBTI type as a place to begin when investigating their socionics type.

That's just my opinion though. You'll find quite a few people who disagree and consider me an amateur who hasn't read anything (even though I'm apparently the only one I've seen so far in this sub-forum who actually had a REAL BOOK link to post that was in fact written by one of the most influential and important contributors to Socionics theory.) :|
 

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Socionics isn't based off of the dichotomies, though... :|

According to that test, I'm an ILI, which, I can assure you, is false.
 
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Well that's the beauty of it. Everyone has a different idea of what "INTP / INTJ" mean these days. If you're Ti-Ne which I seem to recall, you'd fit "INTP" so to speak.
 

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Socionics isn't based off of the dichotomies, though... :|

According to that test, I'm an ILI, which, I can assure you, is false.
Yeah, it's just a starting point for where to begin. It doesn't translate 1:1. You could get INTP on the MBTI thing, and then read about ILI and go, "eh, this seems off" and read about LII and go, "this seems more me." In the end, all you did was flip the P to a J. It's still almost the same in terms of dichotomies, even if it makes a world of difference in the IMs.

Also, are you sure Socionics isn't based off of the dichotomies? This quote (from wikisocion) seems to almost directly contradict that. I'm not sure how substantial it is (I don't trust everything I read to be fair) but it did kind of stand out to me. Not saying you're wrong, but then, if you're right, the following has to be wrong doesn't it?

the axiomatic basis of socionics consists of the principle theses which are taken for granted within socionics. Various socionists have tried to outline the axiomatic basis of socionics.

Axioms of socionics


 

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Yeah, it's just a starting point for where to begin. It doesn't translate 1:1. You could get INTP on the MBTI thing, and then read about ILI and go, "eh, this seems off" and read about LII and go, "this seems more me." In the end, all you did was flip the P to a J. It's still almost the same in terms of dichotomies, even if it makes a world of difference in the IMs.

Also, are you sure Socionics isn't based off of the dichotomies? This quote (from wikisocion) seems to almost directly contradict that. I'm not sure how substantial it is (I don't trust everything I read to be fair) but it did kind of stand out to me. Not saying you're wrong, but then, if you're right, the following has to be wrong doesn't it?

Axioms of socionics


I don't believe the dichotomies to be the an umbrella for the different combinations of IEs.

Also, how do the dichotomies decide what the base and creative is? I'd add in static vs dynamic for the sake of consistency.
 
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I don't believe the dichotomies to be the an umbrella for the different combinations of IEs.

Also, how do the dichotomies decide what the base and creative is? I'd add in static vs dynamic for the sake of consistency.
Well, like this I think >.>;


Psychological functions and Information metabolism models


Information metabolism types


On the pages of earlier publications we tried to trace the differences in details on every socionic dichotomy: extraversion – introversion, logics – ethics, intuition – sensorics, rationality – irrationality.
The dichotomies can be described in another way answering the following questions:​
Which world determines our vital activities?
The inner world – the outer world

· (extraverts) (introverts)
Which type of information do we easier perceive?
Concrete information – Abstract information

· (sensorics) (intuits)
Which world is better for us: of objective rules or human relationships?
Objective rules – Human relationships

· (logics) (ethics)
How do we arrange our life?
Steadily moving to the goal – Sensitively react to changes

· (rationals) (irrationals)
In human psyche all the four features united in pairs are represented. Nevertheless, each of us uses only one part of each pair more surely and freely, perception on the other one is inadequate and accompanied by difficulties. Here we can draw the analogy with the right and left hands. Thus, the right-handed people better manipulate with the right hand but that does not mean that they do not use the left one at all. The left-handed people do all the main work with their left hand but the right hand is a very important aid for them.
It is not by chance that we have returned to the previous material for by that we have closely come to the most important and at the same time the most complicated matter – combining together the data received in the diagnostic process and thus identifying the information Table 1.


Socionic functions

Aushra Augustinavichuite suggested using two symbols for marking the type. These symbols you can see in the last column of the table. What are these symbols and why are they used to mark the type? Now we will talk about that.
A. Augustinavichuite did not stop at describing the information metabolism type by dichotomies. She was sure that certain peculiarities of the human psyche are not described by them. That is why the Lithuanian scientist made the next step in socionicsdevelopment: she paid attention to the work of the functions described by Jung in the person’s informationsystem. Shesuggested considering first every Jung’s function in its extraverted and introverted variants. And she also introduced their symbols .

Socionic functions process information about the world. Each function is “responsible” for “its own” information. And what is the way to understand which information refers to which function? Let’s look at the table for that (table 2).



Fairy Matrix

: How are these functions reflected in the peculiarities of a psychological type? Let’s start with the initial matrix of two cells:​
1
2
There are a few rules to fill it in:

· For example, if in the course of diagnostics you have found that the person is intuit (by the axis intuition – sensorics) and logics (by the axis logics – ethics) then these two cells will be filled with the according symbols. The question arises: which of them should be put in the first place and which in the second? For that we will turn to the rationality – irrationality dichotomy.
· If the person is irrational, then the first cell of the matrix will be filled with irrational functions – either intuition or sensorics, if he is rational – either logics or ethics.
· Here we should remember that the first cell also contains the information about introversion – extraversion. If in the course of diagnostics it has been found that the person is extravert, then the first function will have a black symbol, and if he is an introvert – a white one.
That is why if you have defined the person to be an introvert, intuit, logics and irrational, then the cells will be filled in as follows:​
One more example . If the person has been defined an extravert, intuit, logics and rational, then the fairy matrix will look like this:​
Thus we can see that the name of the type is formed of two cells – intuitive-logical introvert ( ILI) – in the first case and logical-intuitive extravert (LIE) in the second case.
According to the same principle the type name can be deciphered. Having heard LIE or seen the symbols
, then it should be interpreted as logical-intuitive extravert. As logics is in the first place, then this type is referred to the irrational category.
And by analogy, if you see ILI or the symbols
, then it is about intuitive-logical introvert. Intuition is in the first place with him, then the type is irrational.
Besides the type’s name the fairy matrix shows his strongest functions. In these two examples they coincide: that is intuition of time and logics of actions.

Socionic model

One of the main socionics achievements is modeling of the human psyche structure. In Jung’s time this was beyond scientists’ power as no mathematic modeling existed then. There are no any serious models in western type watching as well coming from Jung directly but adding almost nothing to his theory. Here our scientists have turned to be “ahead of the whole planet”.
Aushra Augustinavichuite has constructed a model consisting of eight functions arranged in a certain order. These are all the eight functions described in table 2. Thus, at present the integral personality psyche is represented in socionics. The model shows how we process all the information about the world. Some functions (strong ones) process the larger volume of information, the other (weak ones) – much less. But we see, hear, perceive all of it. That is why all the eight functions are represented in the model.
Strength and consciousness of each function is defined by its place in the model.​
1
2
4
3
6
5
7
8
Constructing a type model starts the same way as construction of the fairy matrix: the strongest and conscious functions of the type are placed in the first and the second cells. Further, the law of socionic functions alternation by extraversion and introversion comes into force: if the function in the first cell is black, the second will necessarily be white, the third will be black, the fourth – white. And at the same time the second law works: alternation of the functions by rationality – irrationality: if the first function is rational, then the second will be irrational, the third one – rational, the fourth – irrational. Look at the pictures how the models for analyzed by us ILI and LIE are filled.
To construct the 5 th, 6 th, 7 th and the 8 th cells it is important to remember that they are mirror reflection of the first four only with the changed colours of the symbols. Let’s imagine. That this model is a sheet of paper. Let’s fold it by the line between the 3 – 4 th and 5 – 6 th cells. We will see that the 1 st and the 2 nd cells will be mirror to the 7 th and the 8 th, and the 3 rd and the 4 th cells will mirror the 5 th and the 6 th with the difference in colours by extraversion – introversion.
· Intuitive-logical introvert (ILI):
· Logical-intuitive extravert (LIE):
The first four cells are referred to the conscious functions, they include the things a person more often thinks and talks about. The cells from the 5 th to the 8 th are referred to subconscious. These functions are rarely shown in speech, more often they can be seen in behaviour, instinctively, without discussions. As we know, there is social and biological side in us. The first four cells are connected with our social manifestations, the second signal system (thinking and speech). The last four cells is biological in us, is connected with the first signal system (instincts).
 

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Touche.
 
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INFP: Idealistic, loyal to their values and to people who are important to them. Want an external life that is congruent with their values. Curious, quick to see possibilities, can be catalysts for implementing ideas. Seek to understand people and to help them fulfill their potential. Adaptable, flexible, and accepting unless a value is threatened.

Dominant function: Introverted Feeling.
Auxiliary function: Extraverted Intuition.

Extraversion

People who prefer Extraversion tend to focus on the outer world of people and things.

E 10
11 I

Intraversion


People who prefer Intraversion tend to focus on the inner world of ideas and impressions.

Sensing

People who prefer Sensing tend to focus on the present and on concrete information gained from the senses.

S 0
26 N

Intuition

People who prefer Intuition tend to focus on the future, with a view toward patterns and possibilities.

Thinking

People who prefer Thinking tend to base their decitions primarilly on logic and on objective analysis of cause and effect.

T 6
18 F

Feeling

People who prefer Feeling tend to base their decisions primarilly on values and on subjective evaluation of person-centered concerns.

Judging

People who prefer Judging tend to like a planned and organized approach to life and prefer to have things settled.
J 2
20 P

Perceiving

People who prefer Perceiving tend to like a flexible and spontaneous approach to life and prefer to keep their options open.


Preference clarity
I slight
N very clear
F moderate
P clear

Apparently I'm an ambiverted INFP on this MBTI (not Socionics) test.
 

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Lotus Jester
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
IEI Your result
EII These types might also be considered
ILI
IEE

:unsure:

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You can see results for all sociotypes (What is socionics?)
Posible maximum for one sociotype - 400

This is your result:

INTJ(Robespierre) - 265
INFJ(Dostoyevsky) - 210

ISTJ(Maxim Gorky) - 200

ENTJ(Jack London) - 200
ENTP(Don Quixote) - 200
INTP(Balzac) - 190

:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Traits

Individual traits

Uses imagination and reflection rather than manipulates real objects. Focuses on relations between self and the outer world. Introvert

Better perceives real objects and their relations, general principles and trends. Sees the world through the prism of rules and logical connections. Logical

Better perceives non-material side of the world — ideas, concepts, and the like. Quickly absorbs new information, but because of poor digestion doesn’t keep it in memory for too long. Intuitive

Dynamic Perceives reality as a series of interrelated events. Notices trends and changes in an object or process, but overlooks their state at a given moment

Sees what’s present rather than what’s absent. First of all, notices the positives — “The weather is good, the sky is clear.” Positive

Declaring Typically speaks in statements. Prefers monologues to dialogues. Tends to make detailed speeches, because he or she is more interested in self-expression than hearing the other person.

Tends to make local decisions based on the current state of things. Cares more about the path, which is the order of steps and actions. Finds it easier to change the goal than the chosen tactics. Tactical

Emotive First perceives the emotional implication, then the meaning. It’s typical of him or her to adjust to the other person’s mood.

First assesses the incoming information, then comes up with a response (or applies an existing pattern) to the situation using his or her experience. Rational

Focuses on a process, finds it hard to tune out of it or tune back in. It’s typical of him or her to do the work from the beginning to the end without switching to something else. Process-oriented

Obstinate It’s hard to change his or her mind — strong arguments are needed. Will use any measures and sources to achieve the goal. Isn’t usually keen on compromising.

Believes that one can’t foresee everything. Once in a new situation, only uses the information that is currently central, overlooking the previous experience. Carefree

Doesn’t rush when it comes to making a decision, takes time to think it over. Normally he or she is relaxed. Finds it hard to function on the spot without external motivation. Reasonable

Objective Considering someone else’s opinion, compares it with the real facts. Believes in objective laws being true, independent of subjective opinions.

Democratic Sees people as individuals rather than members of a group, hierarchy or social network.
 

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Lotus Jester
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Discussion Starter #16
Your result for The Quick and Easy Socionics Personality Test ...

The Inventive ENTp

Extroverted Intuition, Introverted Logic

The Inventive ENTp

Note the following description may not fit perfectly, however based on your test result, it is still your recommended personality type.

ENTps are methodically very abstract and thought driven, constantly seeking the pure potentialities of the unseen. They naturally see the big picture as others see it, while actively comparing their own beliefs without bias and consideration to their own personal belief. It is not uncommon for an ENTp to think is his mind 'A man believes this, another believes that ... I see the potentialities of them both, so what is the real deal?' Often an ENTp may logically qualify these abstractions to make personal solutions to problems, though they actively avoid solving logical problems the same as others do. Since they avoid deriving known conclusions, their ideas maintain a unique and personal originality that other may not have considered. ENTps have little loyalty to personal belief and tend abandon old inferior beliefs for newer ones with better potentialities.

Since they are creative and pensive people, ENTps can not function well in environments that demand their attention to strict schedules or have heavy expectations placed upon them. Structured environments frustrate them and routine demotivates them, causing them to break down from the stress and pressure. However, ENTps function well in environments by which they have been given a 'creative license' to move freely and to exercise their abilities to rationalize, appearing to procrastinate until the last moment to finish tasks. An ENTp does the best work in an unstructured free environment with few prohibitions or restrictions.

ENTps can have little understanding of the limits of public, personal, and private space, and can irritate others with the way they habitually manage common everyday matters. They can have limited ability to comprehend the amount of time to complete task, and can be generally irresponsible or late on occasion. They can also be very messy, and have a hard time taking care of themselves. They can become so distracted with every day matters, that they lose track of their health. An ENTp may appear to be in a hurry when he or she is not.

The ENTp gets along most favorably (especially long term) with The Peaceful ISFp.

Your Analysis (Vertical line = Average)

ENTp Distribution

You scored 100% on ENTp, higher than 81% of your peers.

ISFp Distribution

You scored 50% on ISFp, higher than 41% of your peers.

You scored 50% on ESFj, higher than 40% of your peers.

INTj Distribution

You scored 50% on INTj, higher than 37% of your peers.

INFp Distribution

You scored 50% on INFp, higher than 37% of your peers.

INTp Distribution

You scored 50% on INTp, higher than 37% of your peers.

ENFp Distribution

You scored 50% on ENFp, higher than 32% of your peers.
 

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Well that's the beauty of it. Everyone has a different idea of what "INTP / INTJ" mean these days. If you're Ti-Ne which I seem to recall, you'd fit "INTP" so to speak.
more like the ugliness and bullshit.

Ni is still Ni. Te is still Te. people fly off the wall, and start typing by the overall description that some person wrote, and then try to interpret that... instead of going by the more elementary and less open-to-interpretation concepts like information elements/cognitive functions, or dichotomies.

Even if socionics Si was unequivocally different from MBTI Si, there is no way in hell an Si Te in socionics would = Ti Se... Ni Te = Ti Ne, or Fe Si = Se Fi... etc At best, what you would have is different definitions of information elements.

You can question what is the criteria, and people throw a fit and get mad at you. they've devolved a mathematical thing into interpretation like religious texts. They can't even give you a strong reason, or build up their conclusions from first principles, but they will get mad at you for questioning.

a big fat joke. It's fundamentally the same as religion. and the resulting quarrels are the same as well.
 

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Well, I definitely am more angered by mindless quarrels resulting from inconsistency than from people having clearly defined different perspectives on things like founding principles, which they state upfront clearly. Those quarrels do indeed resemble the most mindless of religious quarrels.

At best, what you would have is different definitions of information elements.
Makes sense. I like to be careful about how I approach a discussion based on which theory it is, but that does not stop me from my own flexible interpretation that sees an underlying core.


You can question what is the criteria, and people throw a fit and get mad at you.
Yeah and as I have posted before, they might as well never learn the theory, as their understanding is subtracted from by (an excuse for) learning, which is such fail.


I do not view typology as being devoid of subjectivity, to be clear, however. Naturally, how illuminating it is depends on what the actual content is despite any present subjectivity.
 
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