[hotmustard632]

I was looking on the socionics page, and I strongly disagree that my perfect match is an ESFP. In fact, I could not think of a worse type that I would be happy in a relationship. Personalitypage.com says that the ENTJ is my perfect type, and I think that is dead on. What do you guys think?

On another note, socionics was describing how INTP's don't like to be led or controlled, but I definitely have no problem with it so long as I can see that it makes the most sense and that I am not being taken advantage of.

 

[Promethea]

There is no such thing as an INTP in socionics. Socionics is not in any way mbti. They are two completely different systems created from jungs theories, but different nonetheless. The functions between the two systems are different. For example Te in mbti is different from Te in socionics.

There does exist an INTp in socionics, and the two main functions for it are: Ni Te. Now, even if those functions meant the same thing in mbti as they do in socionics (and they don't) -- then it would be an "INTJ" and its not. The Ti Ne type in socionics is the INTj -- and as far as I can discern, these are different flavours of NTs than the mbti INTP and INTJ.

I clear up these misconceptions a lot on the forum, so I'm going to quote myself here:

The types don't translate over, because the functions between types are different. mbti is better off seen as mostly a dichotomy, because the functions are defining stereotypes more than anything of substance, and the things they are defining don't always work within a framework of assigned combinations of functions.

Here is an example: Te is a different thing in mbti than it is in socionics. In mbti I am closer to Ti, but in socionics I am most definitely Te -- because they are different things. In mbti I relate more to Ni than any other function. Ni is -similar- but not exactly the same in socionics, and I happen to identify with it more strongly than the other functions too -- but this will not be the case for everyone who identifies most strongly with Ni in one system. There are a lot of differences and it won't always line up. The two models were developed from tons of nebulous theory, and they went in different directions. Just because some of the types share a similar four letter label doesn't mean that they mean the same thing. And I will add that I refuse to ever use a 4 letter label in socionics, as the three letter one is more correct.

And:

The functions in socionics are different from the functions in mbti. Te in socionics is not the same as Te in mbti for example. Some of the functions are -similar- but still not exactly the same thing. Others are extremely different, like the Ss..

You can be a different type in mbti than you are in socionics, even with different functions. I have known people who were Ti in mbti to be Te in socionics, for example. (I am one of those too.)

The socionics tests are a waste of time. A huge waste of time. They do not take into account quadras, and I doubt this test takes into account functions. You can't look at socionics as a dichotomy. Its so even to a lesser extent than the stereotypical watered down mbti model.

I have never seen a good socionics test, and I doubt most who took this test got their score correct.

As far as the tacky use of 4 letter labels in socionics -- its just bad, and it causes confusion between socionics and mbti. -Some- of the types have different uses of p, and j. For example, the ili in socionics is the Ni Te type, but its called an INTp. This isn't so of every type though. "Ok, then an ili is an mbti intj?" No it isn't. Look at it as a different flavor of NT entirely -- because it its. If you mostly fit that in socionics, and you also mostly fit intj in mbti, cool. But not everyone will have scorings that consistent.

You said something that I do agree with however, and here are my thoughts on their shitty intertype relations bullshits:

I personally don't think much of its intertype relations because its only a typology model. What that means to me is that it is only highlighting something about the individual, but not nearly the whole of the individual, because human beings are just way more complex than that.

Can Fe valuing people and Fi valuing people often grate on each other? Sure. But in other cases they become best friends, or fall madly in love and it works out great.

For me personally, I am an introvert who prefers to date other introverts. I have had terrible exp with every extrovert I have been with. It just doesn't work for me.. however in intertype relations, you always have introverts paired with extroverts. And to be blunt, the type of extrovert they would have me paired with drives me up the wall, annoying me, if we get close enough.

So, does intertype relations work? Sometimes, sometimes a little, not so in many cases. Lol. As with anything, it depends on the person, the individual consisting of all these vast complexities (with what fits into a typology model as this one tiny part).

 

[hotmustard632]

So in your opinion, is socionics useful at all? Or is MBTi the better conceived theory?

 

[billymark]

Just to be fair, my best friends have been esfp's. They don't judge anything from my experience. I've never read anything on socionics though.

 

[hotmustard632]

And I am not sure if we are supposed to ask this or not, but do you identify with one type as far as MBTi is concerned?

 

[hotmustard632]

I had an ESFJ best friend one time: TERRIBLE idea.

 

[Promethea]

So in your opinion, is socionics useful at all? Or is MBTi the better conceived theory?

I do prefer socionics, however, I reject its intertype relations.

 

[hotmustard632]

Interesting. Thanks! I'll have to digest it when I am not supposed to be studying for finals

 

[Promethea]

I'm going to expand on this actually. The theory behind intertype relations is that we are all babies stuck in one gear, and we need other people to pull us out of that gear. I personally don't need an Se dominant to teach me how to .. anything. Sure, I have seen some people stuck in the mud, but if they had an ounce of chutzpah, they could self-develop, and learn on their own as I did to zomg, talk to strangers, remember to pay the bills, etc.

I personally prefer someone who is similar to me. I want a mind-mate, not some entertaining extrovert who can encourage me to not be myself long enough to be more like them -- (then suddenly 'holy shit, I'm whole?' no.)

I think that every individual is equipped with what it takes to self-actualize without the influence of others pulling or pushing on them.

And I really can't think of anything better than being with someone who just.. 'gets you.'

 

[Laertes]

Amen to the above. I'm slightly different, because I find extroversion desirable, but S or J? Hell no. Communication is far more important in a relationship than silly stuff about "completing each other".

Besides, people have multiple relationship in their lives, not just romantic. You can be with someone similar and keep balance in your environment by having friends of different types. My ESFP friend has tremendously helped me grow as a person thanks to our differences, yes, but as a couple we'd most likely end up hating each other's guts.

 

[hotmustard632]

I tend to gravitate towards E because everyone I have ever known is E, and I must have an NT. For me personally however, I need a J to ground me because I forget EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. And I do understand that people are not a collection of four letters and that each and everyone of us is developed in our own unique way.

 

[cyamitide]

I was looking on the socionics page, and I strongly disagree that my perfect match is an ESFP. In fact, I could not think of a worse type that I would be happy in a relationship. Personalitypage.com says that the ENTJ is my perfect type, and I think that is dead on. What do you guys think?

Socionics INTp is not same as MBTI INTP. Socionics INTp is Ni-leading and Te creative while MBTI INTP is Ti-dominant and Ne-auxiliary. The last letter in Socionics is written lower-case to designate that it is different from MBTI.

As for intertype relations they are averages and as such should not be used to dictate one's relationships because you never know what will happen in your individual case. It is not a good idea to use them to dictate your personal life.