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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious, is this something that a lot of INTJs struggle with?

What I mean is, does your drive for efficiency or vision of the future sometimes edge you closer to just saying "fuck people's feelings" entirely and just going dark side? There are times I think that I function so much better when I can shut my emotions off, or just ignore them entirely.

But I actually like feeling emotions. Even though they 'get in the way' or seem to at times, I wouldn't want to sacrifice them just to accomplish my goals or see the future I want happen.

Still, it is a constant conflict inside of me, always either forcing myself to repress what little emotions I feel, or the opposite - trying to stir up some semblance of a human feeling so I can believe I'm not just a sociopath.

When I seriously stop to consider the things I might do under certain circumstances, and I contrast my restraint versus the restraint of most people I know, I start to think most people would consider me a monster.
 

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No. I know how easy it would be to go entirely to that side and how it would be extremely difficult to ever come out so I do not even tempt myself with doing it. I don't feel I'm a sociopath for feeling differently than everyone else, I just feel...different.

But really it's not a matter of what you think, it's what you do. I can think of killing babies but I am not my thoughts.
 

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In the past I struggled with trying to understand WTF people were on about and had very little respect for people who dramatised emotions.

I have a moral code rather than consider what others are feeling. I try to put myself in their shoes and figure how it would feel for me in the same situation. I try to act how I'd want others to act towards me.

Here's something on psychopathy which might be interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
But really it's not a matter of what you think, it's what you do. I can think of killing babies but I am not my thoughts.
Okay, this seems to be where I am at as well. Thank you.

Basically, I tell myself that I'm not a sociopath otherwise I would do all the things I restrain myself from doing. Like I said though, it's a constant struggle... and sometimes it seems really unreasonable - like I'm holding back for no reason, because the repercussions could be avoided or something like that.
 

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Things are always only a reflection of what you do. If you do not do things that make you a sociopath, you are not one. Sometimes I think it's just a matter of not taking life so seriously. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Things are always only a reflection of what you do. If you do not do things that make you a sociopath, you are not one. Sometimes I think it's just a matter of not taking life so seriously. :)
Could be.

It's something that has caused me problems in the past, however. My lack of empathy for others has gotten me into trouble with my parents numerous times as a kid, or in school with teachers and other students, or at different jobs where I had to work with customers, or everywhere in my life generally speaking. While I haven't done anything that would get me sent to prison, prison is really the only reason I haven't done those things. Not empathy.

People expect you to at least frown when they say certain things, or to smile when they go out of their way for you. This kind of thing always frustrated me and felt like a stupid expectation of me to perform some kind of social ritual, and after learning about MBTI I just assumed it was Fe.

EDIT: @bethdeth

You know, I spent a bit thinking about it just now and I think I actually live by a similar rule, the Golden Rule right? Basically "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" as it was taught to me. I kind of do that without even stopping to think about it actually, since I was just raised that way by my grandmother and it comes naturally being a 9. It's just easier to adopt that kind of policy really, it avoids so much having to explain yourself later when you can say you are just mirroring.

But of course, being honest with myself, I do slip and do selfish things quite often. I think I have a tendency to avoid feeling guilty or responsible to myself by accepting a blow from the other person though. Like I play this game of punishing myself to make up for my selfishness. That introspective crap is what stresses me out the most. I have to make sure I'm being fair, both to myself and them, and then my perfectionism steps in and I take it way too seriously, and then I'm wondering if I am a sociopath, haha.
 

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It's a struggle to repress my thoughts everyday. Lately I've been feeling like to obtain my goals I have no choice but join the dark side. I know I'm a monster and I embrace it on the inside yet live a diguise on the outside.
 

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Could be.

It's something that has caused me problems in the past, however. My lack of empathy for others has gotten me into trouble with my parents numerous times as a kid, or in school with teachers and other students, or at different jobs where I had to work with customers, or everywhere in my life generally speaking. While I haven't done anything that would get me sent to prison, prison is really the only reason I haven't done those things. Not empathy.

People expect you to at least frown when they say certain things, or to smile when they go out of their way for you. This kind of thing always frustrated me and felt like a stupid expectation of me to perform some kind of social ritual, and after learning about MBTI I just assumed it was Fe.

EDIT: @bethdeth

You know, I spent a bit thinking about it just now and I think I actually live by a similar rule, the Golden Rule right? Basically "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" as it was taught to me. I kind of do that without even stopping to think about it actually, since I was just raised that way by my grandmother and it comes naturally being a 9. It's just easier to adopt that kind of policy really, it avoids so much having to explain yourself later when you can say you are just mirroring.

But of course, being honest with myself, I do slip and do selfish things quite often. I think I have a tendency to avoid feeling guilty or responsible to myself by accepting a blow from the other person though. Like I play this game of punishing myself to make up for my selfishness. That introspective crap is what stresses me out the most. I have to make sure I'm being fair, both to myself and them, and then my perfectionism steps in and I take it way too seriously, and then I'm wondering if I am a sociopath, haha.
Yeah, I didn't think you were a psychopath. That's why I posted that link.
 

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I have a online ethics class and from my sarcastic devil advocate post they think I am a psychopath.

OPs first paragraph pretty much explained it. lol
Life is always entertaining with sarcasm.
 

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I'm curious, is this something that a lot of INTJs struggle with?

What I mean is, does your drive for efficiency or vision of the future sometimes edge you closer to just saying "fuck people's feelings" entirely and just going dark side? There are times I think that I function so much better when I can shut my emotions off, or just ignore them entirely.

But I actually like feeling emotions. Even though they 'get in the way' or seem to at times, I wouldn't want to sacrifice them just to accomplish my goals or see the future I want happen.

Still, it is a constant conflict inside of me, always either forcing myself to repress what little emotions I feel, or the opposite - trying to stir up some semblance of a human feeling so I can believe I'm not just a sociopath.

When I seriously stop to consider the things I might do under certain circumstances, and I contrast my restraint versus the restraint of most people I know, I start to think most people would consider me a monster.
That is a debate i am all too familiar with
 

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i think a distinction should be made in regards as to how all of this affects the individual with those thoughts.

if one can see the socio/psychopathic actions akin to thinking, "hey, the grass is sorta green... what'd ya know?", instead of it causing them some level of discomfort (in whatever form it may take), then yes, that does sound like the label. now, having thoughts pop into your head or being aware that you may not fully (if at all) adhere to societal norms and therefore could entertain thoughts/actions that would be "sociopathic", and then feel guilt or uneasiness, then no, that wouldn't fit the definition as far as i understand it. a sociopath/psychopath wouldn't understand the emotional pain/anguish in another person as being in any way the same as in how it occurs in them--that link would be missing entirely.
 

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I'm curious, is this something that a lot of INTJs struggle with?

What I mean is, does your drive for efficiency or vision of the future sometimes edge you closer to just saying "fuck people's feelings" entirely and just going dark side? There are times I think that I function so much better when I can shut my emotions off, or just ignore them entirely.

But I actually like feeling emotions. Even though they 'get in the way' or seem to at times, I wouldn't want to sacrifice them just to accomplish my goals or see the future I want happen.

Still, it is a constant conflict inside of me, always either forcing myself to repress what little emotions I feel, or the opposite - trying to stir up some semblance of a human feeling so I can believe I'm not just a sociopath.

When I seriously stop to consider the things I might do under certain circumstances, and I contrast my restraint versus the restraint of most people I know, I start to think most people would consider me a monster.

I don't struggle with either. I am not sadistic. I think I would know if I tortured animals. Psychopaths/sociopaths are not just INTJs. I could name 5 serial killers that are not INTJs

Andrei Chikatilo- Way too animated to be an INTJ. Smiled too much.

Larry Eyler- Cable guy mentality. Red neck.

John Wayne Gace- How many INTJs dress like a clown and perform? He doesn't even look like an INTJ.

Ed Gein- Too much of a momma's boy

Jeffery Dahmer- Definitely an extrovert. Frequented bars, enjoyed dancing. Made his decision to kill lovers and eat them based on fears of abandonment. Probably was an "f-type"
 

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No, definitely not something I struggle with.

One person has told me he thinks of me as one of those few people who are honestly good and always trying to do "the right thing". Which is kind of true, with the modification that I am the one who decides what is the right thing. Most of the time, my morals and ethics end up being compatible with society, so that's fine.

I guess I do "intellectualize" such things more than the next person. I think I could completely cut off the emotional part of morals, and rational thoughts would keep me doing just the same in the overwhelming majority of situations.

That one time comes to mind when I tried to explain to someone on the internet that I find it impossible to really completely absolutely trust other people - but if I know them well enough, I can trust myself to predict their reactions reasonably well. And then, if I expect them to be trustworthy under certain circumstances, I can trust my expectations, which roughly ends up at the same place.
The other person believed in real, utter, complete trust. They proceeded to give me their e-mail-address and ask me to contact them again. I told them I had no intention to. They told me they trusted me to contact them. Although I had just told them I wouldn't. Ironic, isn't it? Though of course maybe not serious. Maybe only a failed attempt at manipulation.

I've come to the conclusion that "dark side"/"light side"-thinking (in the Jedi sense) is mostly useless in real life. Yes, if absolutely necessary, I'd use the "dark side", usually not without carefully thinking about it first, though. If I had come to the conclusion that it was the best option, I don't think I'd feel very bad about it, even if it was seen as evil by others. But I don't think that's the one-way-path it's made out to be. I wouldn't suddendly be evil!me or something, but go right back to being the same old person I never stopped being and confuse the hell out of people who think there's some permanent "turning to the dark side" involved.

I have discovered that I apparently am one of those people who can get intensely focused, logical and "cold" in stress situations. I have to admit that the experience is interesting. If attacked, I try to end the fight as quickly as possible with whatever means I have, the restraint versus killing attackers goes pretty much out the window without making me "see red" or anything of the kind. Doesn't make me a sociopath, just means I am willing to defend myself if need be, and being not the most physically impressive person, I'd have to use any advantage I can get.
 

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No, definitely not something I struggle with.

One person has told me he thinks of me as one of those few people who are honestly good and always trying to do "the right thing". Which is kind of true, with the modification that I am the one who decides what is the right thing. Most of the time, my morals and ethics end up being compatible with society, so that's fine.
I feel the same. I've even been described as ''too fair'', for wanting things to be just, even when an opportunity arises for me to just get my way automatically.

For several months I lived with someone (a stranger) who we believed to be a sociopath. He would occasionally burst into a performance of an emotion, then several seconds later return to his usual deadened expression. It was always very bizarre, because he couldn't even do a good impersonation of happiness/sadness, etc. He had previously bugged people he lived with, with a view to using it against them. He later bugged our living room and I also found out that he copied a memory card from my camera to his computer. One day he just moved out, without a word to anyone.
 

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I can understand and relate to the component of psychopathy surrounding ego and outsmarting the authorities. I remember contemplating how to commit the perfect crime as a teenager. I never had any inclination to actually go and do anything, but I found the mental exercise of planning out how I would get away with a crime to be very satisfying.

As others have said, I also find that I'm most efficient and focussed when I completely tune out my emotions and disregard the feelings of others. That doesn't make me a socio/psychopath though. Just very good at remaining objective.
 

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According to my research, sociopaths and psychopaths don't know they have a problem, thus, they have no concept of restraint from the consequences of their disorder. They cannot deny they have a problem, because they don't know they do. It is a personality disorder - thus, they have no way of seeing past it's existence, because the socio/psychopathic personality is all they know. Frankly, I'm willing to bet that all of the silly INTJ = psychopath stereotypes come from our type's idiotic movie portrayals mainly. After all, movie producers probably don't want to freak out the "status quo" movie-goers with the very true observation that some of the most charming and innocent-seeming people who others tend to associate with may actually be socio/psychopaths - the parasites who try to blend into society as much as possible. This isn't surprising, considering that anything a bit out of the mainstream is diagnosed as a disorder these days, unfortunately, even though there are no hindering disabilities associated with these, which is what truly constitutes a disorder (think ODD - Oppositional Defiant Disorder in children - I never fell for that one! XD ).
 

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I can understand and relate to the component of psychopathy surrounding ego and outsmarting the authorities. I remember contemplating how to commit the perfect crime as a teenager. I never had any inclination to actually go and do anything, but I found the mental exercise of planning out how I would get away with a crime to be very satisfying.
You were very imaginative. After all, committing a crime to save your or some else's life can come in handy! End of story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The purpose of this thread was not actually to suggest that INTJs are natural born psychopaths, but that there could be a predisposition for it related to the type.

For example, the stereotype that all Irish are good drinkers has some reality to it, even if it is, in general, a rather absurd generalization.
 

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I know I'm not a psychopath and never even remotely considered the idea. It's a legitimate personality type. Psychopaths are essentially developmentally-arrested to the level of a 2 year old. They live almost entirely in Freudian "id" consciousness. It's unimaginable to the non-psychopath. I have no idea what would predispose us to psychopathy over other types.
 
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