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MOTM June 2010
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As I have argued continuously there are many variables to type that preclude us from typing others, which include even when we have a great idea of how a function is defined in theory, actually noticing that function in work can be arduous. Jung said about Ne dominant types,
…. if I ask the intuitive how he is [p. 463] orientated, he will speak of things, which are quite indistinguishable from sense perceptions. Frequently he will even make use of the term 'sensation'. He actually has sensations, but he is not guided by them per se, merely using them as directing-points for his distant vision…..
This gives us some indication that even when using a particular function it can be sometimes hard to explain, but possibly impossible to recognize in others. INFJs claim that they never know another INFJ when they encounter one. I think that can hold true for most types. Below are descriptions come from Dr. Linda V. Berens’ ”Dynamics of Personality Type: Understanding and Applying Jung’s Cognitive Processes”:


Look-Alikes and Differentiators

Introverted Sensing (Si)/Introverted Feeling (Fi) - Si and Fi are often associated with a strong kinesthetic sense – like a whole body feeling-tone response. Remember, Si is an information source that informs decisions. When engaging in this process, a series of past impressions comes to mind unbidden. Fi is a feeling judging process that uses different sources of information as checkpoints along the way to know if the evaluation is “right”.

Introverted Thinking (Ti)/Introverted Intuiting (Ni) – Ti and Ni are often accompanied by a sense of detachment and disconnection. With both there tends to be comfort with complexity. The difference is that when we are engaging in Ti, we usually have a clear sense of the principles or models something is judged against, whereas with Ni, an impressionistic image forms in the mind.

Extraverted Sensing (Se)/Extraverted Thinking (Te)
– Se and Te are often used when there is a focus on facts and an empirical approach. Keep in mind that Se is a perceptive process and may consist of data gathering with questions, whereas Te is a judging process in which the purpose of question is to establish logic.

Extraverted Intuiting (Ne)/Extraverted Feeling (Fe) – Ne and Fe often focus on people and their interactions. With Ne, it is the meanings and inferences that come to mind relative to people and their interactions. With Fe, it is the actions that keep people connected or disconnected that matter.

Extraverted Sensing (Se)/Extraverted Intuiting (Ne)
– Se and Ne are both simultaneous in nature and involve perception of many things at once. This can lead to random activity as the outer world is scanned for additional information. With Se, there is an emphasis on possibilities for actions to take. With Ne, there is an emphasis on possibilities to be considered for action.

Introverted Sensing (Si)/Introverted Intuiting (Ni) – Si and Ni are both more focused and involve a perception of “one thing at a time.” This gives the behavior a sequential appearance, with a sense of beginning, middle and end. With Si, the sequence is often logistical in nature and based on the past. Ni is based on a vision for the future, and the focus is on what steps to take next.

Again, this is merely one obstacle that prevents us from actually reading others types, but these function similarities (which may not be an exhaustive list) can lend appreciation when combining other factors such as similar temperaments, having identical interaction styles and combining the two top functions resulting in look-alike types posted here.
 

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MOTM June 2010
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks! But why nothing on Fe/Te or Fi/Ti?
Very good question and I have asked bestfittype.com if there will be more comparisons coming, but no one has said. I used to have access to one the contributing members on her forum, but she has since closed it down. I am not sure if Berens/Nardi purposely did not compare these function-attitudes because Jung named thinking and feeling specifically as the two functions that can never appear as similar.

It also makes me wonder if it's the perceiving functions that actually appear as look a-likes toward their opposite function (Se vs Ne, Si vs Ni and vice-versa), and the judging functions, but the reverse is not necessarily true that judging functions are that adaptive to appear like perceiving functions. I see it the same way as the enneagram 5 and 8 rarely mistype as other enneagram types, but many types mistype as E5 and E8s. Hmmm..... questions...., questions, questions....., but again a good one. Thanks Penchant.
 

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Maybe it's an ADHD thing, but I'm supposed to be Fi-dom and I am totally oblivious to kinesthetics. :confused:
 
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MOTM Dec 2011
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I've been putting together some other potential look-a-likes. It's pretty rough, but I think the main ideas come across.


Where cognitive processes can look alike

Ways in which they might be confused. This is NOT describing functions in whole, just aspects where they might be confused for another. I think this is pertinent in P/J confusion (ie. determining if you're TiSe or SiTe).

Se + Te
Similarities = both focus on external data, facts, information
Differences = Te is a judging process, focused on categorizing these things logically, using external measures. Te thinking focuses on applying systematized knowledge. Se is a perceiving process, and does not reason, but is aware, focused on finding more & more sensory & factual data to experience. Se thinking is focused on their reactions to these experiences, and these are pursued for their own sake. Negative experience/information may even be sought out, just to see what it is like.

Silly illustration (which personifies the functions): The Te-dom categorizes the sky as blue in color, according to what blue & color are defined as. Se notes the sky is blue & focuses on their immediate instinctive reaction to it.

Ne + Fe
Similarities = both seek to affect people, to get reactions from them
Differences = Fe seeks to affect people to create consensus, to promote harmony or unity of feelings. Fe is a reasoning process, which generally evaluates according to how something affects external relationships. The desire to affect is to keep things in line with their values, values which they determine according to external measures. Fe will generally seek positive reactions, but will take a negative one over nothing, as it may, for example, at least draw attention to their purpose & eventually get people on board.

Ne seeks to affect people so as to impress their ideas on them, to stir the pot, to get a reaction for its own sake, even if negative. Ne is not a rational thought process, but perceives intangible external relationships which imply possibilities, so their thinking is focused on pursuing these ideas, not on creating common value systems or stabilizing relationships. It's a kind of experimentation: how would people respond if I do X?

Silly illustration: Fe believes that the blue sky indicates clean air, and wants to promote the importance of this as it affects the well-being of people. Ne wants to explore the possibility that the sky is not blue, and may say something outrageous to get other people to play along.

Ti & Si
Similarities = similar to Te/Se similarities but introverted. Both deal with facts, knowledge & systems in relation to the inner world.
Differences = Ti is a judging process which creates concepts of what is logical according to an internal measure, using facts & knowledge to create/refine these internal systems. Si is a process which does not reason, but is aware. It collects & stores facts, knowledge & sensory experience according to the impression it leaves on the individual, and that impression is then compared to any future info taken in. Si notes differences, is aware of them, but it does not judge them. Ti judges irregularities to or within their system.


Silly illustration: Ti judges the sky as blue because it is consistent with a color theory they've developed, aided by taking in info (Pe) about color & the sky, etc. Si sees the sky as blue because it appears similar in shade to other things called blue they've seen before OR it sees the sky as "pleasant" because the color implies good weather & clean air (such judgments being very Je), based on their past experience & knowledge of these things.

Fi & Ni
Similarities = both have "visions" amounting to ideals (concepts from the imagination) & deal with the nature of the inner life
Differences = Fi is a reasoning process which evaluates according to an inner ideal, or vision of perfection. These conclusions are viewed by the Fi-dom as personal & used to determine their own needs/preferences, focusing on their individual inner life; how these relate to others is often an aspect of Pe. Fi judges what should be the essence of perfection, creating models of the ideal.

Ni is a perceiving process which becomes aware of concepts & sees how they should or will develop. These ideals are often viewed as objective in the sense that the Ni type does not relate them to him/herself, not focusing on their personal inner life, but the inner nature of things in general. The Ni type may see these ideals as having the universal validity of truth. Ni sees the model essence of all things, viewing them reduced to their most basic concept & then seeing how they relate to one another.

Silly illustration: Fi judges the color of the sky as it relates to their pleasure & needs, and sometimes, by extension, the pleasure & needs of humanity. A grey sky is sometimes pleasing because it reflects an introspective mood Fi enjoys. Ni sees the color blue as a symbol of freedom & tranquility (or whatever), because blue is the color of the sky & the sky implies these qualities.
 

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What I'm having some trouble with is distingushing function introversion vs. extraversion, particularly with intuition.
 

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MOTM June 2010
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Discussion Starter #10
What I'm having some trouble with is distingushing function introversion vs. extraversion, particularly with intuition.
If you only consider intuition itself, then it becomes problematic. However the attitude of intuition is what makes the difference. Ne is no different than any other extraverting function. It can only be used in the here and now, but has a focus on possibilities of the information it takes in in the present. Contrary to belief, those possibilities are not related to anything but the present, not the future. From there Ne can propose changes and create "what ifs".

Ni works differently because as Jung says:
Intuition, in the introverted attitude, is directed upon the inner object, a term we might justly apply to the elements of the unconscious. For the relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, although theirs is a psychological and not a physical reality. Inner objects appear to the intuitive perception as subjective images of things, which, though not met with in external experience, really determine the contents of the unconscious, i.e. the collective unconscious, in the last resort. Naturally, in their per se character, these contents are, not accessible to experience, a quality which they have in common with the outer object.
This is where I argue with people claiming to use Ni, in that when they discuss type, they're not basing it on reality or on the description depicted between Ti-Ni. We take in information using our Ne-Se and determine the basis of how, why it works. Ni wants nothing to do with knowing how something actually works. They prefer to produce theories of why it may work another way, but when you push them for a logical reason for their assertion, they can't produce one because they have no idea why they believe what they believe. It is simply their Ni dominating and their respective Fe-Te working as a filter to prevent adequate information from entering.

Here is Jung's distinction between Ne and Ni:
The remarkable indifference of the extraverted intuitive in respect to outer objects is shared by the introverted intuitive in relation to the inner objects. Just as the extraverted intuitive is continually scenting out new [p. 507] possibilities, which he pursues with an equal unconcern both for his own welfare and for that of others, pressing on quite heedless of human considerations, tearing down what has only just been established in his everlasting search for change, so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious, without establishing any connection between the phenomenon and himself.
Again where Ni and all introverting functions (yes including Ti) have a universal focus, Ne and extraverting functions have a reality and present oriented focus. When you use Ne, you're not considering the future. Thoughts of anything outside the present circumstances will be done once we go inward. From that position, we may become pensive, daydream (as described in this thread) or as we have been told by others appear a million miles away.
 
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