Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 68 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi folk!

I'm going off a new tangent here and want to ask people on why they think they are this type/instinct/tritype etc.

So, this thread is all about you SP doms! Regardless of your core enneatype/MBTI/Tritype/etc., why do you think you're an SP dom?

Not SP so I'm gonna skip my two cents on that one...

Thanks in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts
I'm perhaps exaggerating a bit, but you could say that my first reaction to any suggestion is to be concerned about its possible interference with my individual freedom and independence.

It doesn't mean that I don't eventually want to do the things - I may be very happy to do them, but guarding my personal space is my first reaction. For instance, when my son developed a passion for football: my first instinct was to mourn for the time I'd have to spend enabling this hobby. The second reaction was to be really happy for him for finding a new passion, and of course I encouraged him to pursue this interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
My husband is a very clear Sp dominant. He knew immediately when I described the instinct variants to him, and I easily concurred. His major concerns are his home being secure and comfortable, having stable finances and stable work, and maintaining being independent and free to pursue his personal interests. Basically having all his life resources being stable and well-maintained so he can do what he wants to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
My husband is a very clear Sp dominant. He knew immediately when I described the instinct variants to him, and I easily concurred. His major concerns are his home being secure and comfortable, having stable finances and stable work, and maintaining being independent and free to pursue his personal interests. Basically having all his life resources being stable and well-maintained so he can do what he wants to do.
What is his MBTI type? I’m just trying to determine if there’s Si at play in this sp since they can overlap, but overall this is what I do see important to sp-doms. I actually don’t think being retentive of energy or guarding one’s personal space is necessarily sp, more introversion and related to core type/wing (Type 5 concerns, for instance). Though, sp-last might expend more energy/resources without realizing the effect it has on their well-being.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
What is his MBTI type? I’m just trying to determine if there’s Si at play in this sp since they can overlap, but overall this is what I do see important to sp-doms. I actually don’t think being retentive of energy or guarding one’s personal space is necessarily sp, more introversion and related to core type/wing (Type 5 concerns, for instance). Though, sp-last might expend more energy/resources without realizing the effect it has on their well-being.
Si indeed. He's ISFJ. And a 9 also - tendency towards body grounding, comfort seeking, etc.

FWIW I believe both of my parents are also sp-dominant (ESFJ 2w1 sp/soc mom, INTP 5w6 sp/sx dad). Of course they manifest sp a little differently. Mom is very much the resource provider and dad the guardian, designer, and groundskeeper of his castle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,399 Posts
@angelfish my Ex (also likely Sp-first).

At first I got confused because Sp is so SJ-like in many ways - my ex is very far from that stereotype, very much INTJ in every aspect, lol.

Security comes first, it's paramount. I actually learnt a lot from being with them and I'm forever grateful for that. I also discovered I'm just a bit waywardly intense to keep up with them. I think I also caused a lot of stress :unsure:
 

·
Registered
INFP 9w1 sp/so
Joined
·
2,468 Posts
Because I know I'm So-last and out of the Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp descriptions Sp/Sx seems the most likely, but I don't really know for sure. Instincts are confusing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
I actually don’t think being retentive of energy or guarding one’s personal space is necessarily sp
It is quite naive to think that the impulse towards preserving the self does not involve an increases awareness of boundaries and energy expenditure. It's in the name.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
From an early age, even though I consider myself sociable and personable, I've been acutely aware of boundaries and was EXTREMELY sensitive to feeling like my privacy was invaded.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,857 Posts
All the things sp can't help but be concerned about I'm concerned about. Those areas or topics I find necessary or worthwhile for living are all sp-related.

I also know an sp-last person and it baffles me to this day how she survives. She de-prioritizes literally everything sp I hold sacred.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
It is quite naive to think that the impulse towards preserving the self does not involve an increases awareness of boundaries and energy expenditure. It's in the name.
Nice selective quoting...

I actually don’t think being retentive of energy or guarding one’s personal space is necessarily sp, more introversion and related to core type/wing (Type 5 concerns, for instance).
Introverts naturally retain their energy.

Here's Jung saying it.

At this point a mere general indication must suffice; on the one hand, I need only point to the peculiarity of the extravert, which constantly urges him to spend and propagate himself in every way, and, on the other, to the tendency of the introvert to defend himself against external claims, to conserve himself from any expenditure of energy directly related to the object, thus consolidating for himself the most secure and impregnable position.
Guarding one's personal space can be related to 5, which was also written earlier by a sp-5, who is also an introvert, so I think that needs to be taken into account.

I may be very happy to do them, but guarding my personal space is my first reaction. For instance, when my son developed a passion for football: my first instinct was to mourn for the time I'd have to spend enabling this hobby. The second reaction was to be really happy for him for finding a new passion, and of course I encouraged him to pursue this interest.
Would say an extroverted sp-2 "guard their personal space" as their first reaction? Do extroverted Type 2s even have boundaries? :laughing:

Why not any mention here (besides angelfish's post) of what you actually need to preserve the self? Money, employment, food, health, shelter, etc. These are what sp-doms are concerned with/neurotic about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
Nice selective quoting...
Oh bite me. My response was written with your entire post in mind.

Introverts naturally retain their energy. Here's Jung saying it.
What Jung has to say is irrelevant. He does not know the Enneagram - his ideas do not apply here.

Guarding one's personal space can be related to 5, which was also written earlier by a sp-5, who is also an introvert, so I think that needs to be taken into account.
The language you use here is important: "can be." Even if other types "can" be self-protective, the Self Preservation type will always be.

Yes, even when said type is an 'extroverted 2'... Personal space includes the home and hearth (family); a concept vital to the Self Pres domain.

Would say an extroverted sp-2 "guard their personal space" as their first reaction? Do extroverted Type 2s even have boundaries? :laughing:
I know this wasn't in response to something I said, but on face value this is incredibly typist and highly inaccurate. Yes, they have boundaries, especially so when Sp is in the dominant position.

Why not any mention here (besides angelfish's post) of what you actually need to preserve the self? Money, employment, food, health, shelter, etc. These are what sp-doms are concerned with/neurotic about.
Myopic, is all I have to say about this. The world is larger than how you choose to perceive it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
What Jung has to say is irrelevant. He does not know the Enneagram - his ideas do not apply here.
How is it irrelevant? Someone's personality doesn't change depending on which lens you look through it. It's quite naive that you think Jung's ideas have no bearing on one's Enneagram type. Even Naranjo/Riso-Hudson correlated Jungian functions to Enneagram types.

The language you use here is important: "can be." Even if other types "can" be self-protective, the Self Preservation type will always be.
Always? No, a sp-5 is one of the most self-protective types, being a withdrawn type whose fixation is around hoarding their space/energy. Other sp-types are not as self-protective. So the core type needs to be taken into account, which often isn't in these discussions.

Yes, even when said type is an 'extroverted 2'... Personal space includes the home and hearth (family); a concept vital to the Self Pres domain.
Now you're saying "family" is a sp-concept when it pertains to 2s? I'll agree with you about the home.

Think about it, what Social-last is invested in family, an inherently Social group?
By the way, if you want to see an excellent post on sp, read @Lady of Clockwork's in that thread: https://www.personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/1308909-sp-instinct-thread.html

I know this wasn't in response to something I said, but on face value this is incredibly typist and highly inaccurate. Yes, they have boundaries, especially so when Sp is in the dominant position.
If you say so, but Enneagram types influence expression of instincts (and vice-versa).

Myopic, is all I have to say about this. The world is larger than how you choose to perceive it.
Same to you. It's basics about sp, but whatever...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
How is it irrelevant? Someone's personality doesn't change depending on which lens you look through it. It's quite naive that you think Jung's ideas have no bearing on one's Enneagram type. Even Naranjo/Riso-Hudson correlated Jungian functions to Enneagram types.
You are using one system to explain another. It is begging for misconceptions. If you can actually demonstrate that Jung's ideas have bearing on the Enneagram, you'd be the first. Naranjo and RH made loose and incredibly brief connections, but no actual correlation was ever established. As such, this is no place to discuss Jung's types.

Always? No, a sp-5 is one of the most self-protective types, being a withdrawn type whose fixation is around hoarding their space/energy. Other sp-types are not as self-protective. So the core type needs to be taken into account, which often isn't in these discussions.
Of course the instinct never operates independently from core type. That's not at all what I'm arguing.

You say that "Other sp-types are not as self-protective." I wager you think Sp5 is more self-protective than Sp7. You'd be correct, in some aspect. However, both being Sp, both are self-protective.

Now you're saying "family" is a sp-concept when it pertains to 2s? I'll agree with you about the home.
Family is strongly connected to home/hearth. Family, while a social concept abstractly, has inseparable ties to Sp in reality. Self Pres 2 is known to be extremely protective of its cubs.

You 'quote' me without actually sourcing the original post. Come on, don't be so dishonest. When did I write this post? It sure isn't from this thread. People's ideas evolve over time, you should try it instead of stalking my old posts just to "get me." Learn. Adapt. Grow. You are reminding me why I stopped responding to your posts in the first place.

In case it isn't clear:
Family is both Social and Self Pres, and can be interpreted in light of either instinct. In this case, I emphasize family + home/hearth.

Thanks, I already read it.

If you say so, but types influence expression of instincts (and vice-versa).
I never claimed otherwise...

Same to you. It's basics about sp, but whatever...
You are being myopic in that you only accept the definitions as outlined by the authorities ("basics about sp") while bristling at the thought that self preservation is about preserving the self: preserving one's energy, preserving one's boundaries,... Self Pres last, even a 5, will just suck at this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
You are using one system to explain another. It is begging for misconceptions. If you can actually demonstrate that Jung's ideas have bearing on the Enneagram, you'd be the first. Naranjo and RH made loose and incredibly brief connections, but no actual correlation was ever established. As such, this is no place to discuss Jung's types.
On the contrary, it needs to inform the discussion because people often mistake their cognitive functions/Jungian type for instinctual behavior leading to misconceptions. Personalities are not isolated systems, so saying it has no place here is what's that word? Myopic.

Of course the instinct never operates independently from core type. That's not at all what I'm arguing.

You say that "Other sp-types are not as self-protective." I wager you think Sp5 is more self-protective than Sp7. You'd be correct, in some aspect. However, both being Sp, both are self-protective.
Being self-protective isn't the same as self-preservation, so I see self-protection as more 5, which was what I was originally responding to in terms of "guarding one's space" and its relation to 5, since it was stated by a 5 in this thread.

Family is strongly connected to home/hearth. Family, while a social concept abstractly, has inseparable ties to Sp in reality.
I think family, if anything, is related to Social. I don't see how it has "inseparable ties" to sp besides that you claim it does. Your original post that I quoted from discussing why it makes you Social-last made more sense.

Self Pres 2 is known to be extremely protective of its cubs.
In general, most 2s are, especially with their arrow to 8, so I don't see how it's relevant to sp-2 specifically.

You 'quote' me without actually sourcing the original post. Come on, don't be so dishonest. When did I write this post? It sure isn't from this thread. People's ideas evolve over time, you should try it instead of stalking my old posts just to "get me." Learn. Adapt. Grow. You are reminding me why I stopped responding to your posts in the first place.
Please. It's from your post in "that thread" with Lady of Clockwork's post, so the source is right there. It's one of your most recent posts, and I only saw it because I was re-reading posts from that thread during this discussion. It can strike one as inconsistency rather than evolution, if your position changes, or at least, has a different shade of meaning across separate threads within a reasonable span of time.

You are being myopic in that you only accept the definitions as outlined by the authorities ("basics about sp") while bristling at the thought that self preservation is about preserving the self: preserving one's energy, preserving one's boundaries,... Self Pres last, even a 5, will just suck at this.
I don't bristle at the thought, and see why you claim it does; however, my main point, which you have now made into something else entirely, is that other factors of one's personality should be taken into account when assessing instincts. I appreciated Lady of Clockwork's post because she does a good job of speaking to the sp-instinct without clouding it with her Enneagram/Jungian type.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts
Would say an extroverted sp-2 "guard their personal space" as their first reaction? Do extroverted Type 2s even have boundaries? :laughing:

Why not any mention here (besides angelfish's post) of what you actually need to preserve the self? Money, employment, food, health, shelter, etc. These are what sp-doms are concerned with/neurotic about.
I don't know, I wasn't trying to sum up all sp dominants. It's a fair guess that a sp extrovert Two would indeed have very different motivations, instincts and fears than I do.

I'm also concerned about employment, money and shelter, although only to a degree that doesn't really set me apart from other people in a very visible way. To me, the point of money is not to buy expensive stuff, but to be independent (~ guard my personal space) and not having to ask others for anything. For money I need employment, because unfortunately I don't have any other source of income. The point of shelter is fairly obvious (who's not concerned about having shelter?), but my home doesn't have to be especially grand. For instance, I've never for a second grieved for the nicer two-income apartment that I've lost because of leaving an unsatisfactory relationship. Personal space first, always.

I wish I was obsessed with health, I'd live a lot longer. Unfortunately that's the part of sp I'm missing.
 

·
Queen of Hearts
Joined
·
17,935 Posts
Would say an extroverted sp-2 "guard their personal space" as their first reaction? Do extroverted Type 2s even have boundaries? :laughing:
I know this wasn't in response to something I said, but on face value this is incredibly typist and highly inaccurate. Yes, they have boundaries, especially so when Sp is in the dominant position.
Obviously a joke because of the laughing face, but I don't find it typist, or inaccurate, 'lack of boundaries' (or something like that) is as important for Type Two as 'maintaining boundaries' is for gut types (including sp-last gut types, obviously), I think that goes down to core of the type, I think type 2 is a good type to look at to see wtf sp even is

(not that 2s don't have any boundaries, obviously everyone does, but I'd posit that 2 actually borrows theirs from one of their wings(1 gut boundaries, 3 attachment-type boundaries) or line to 8, or non-Enneagram actual person things, imo 2 ~as a type~ doesn't have boundaries)

I'm really an instincts atheist now, but I find it fun to talk about nonetheless :laughing:

anyways

I actually don’t think being retentive of energy or guarding one’s personal space is necessarily sp
energy seems like a very specific concept to me and I'd need to hear it discussed as regards all the instincts to formulate an opinion (it seems that 'where you get your energy' is the extrovert/introvert question and that can get translated into instincts but that just makes sx and so extroversion and sp introversion), so I want to know what sp does with energy that is different from so or sx, and that means all the instincts are energy-related


And I don't think 'guarding one's personal space' is necessarily sp, but maybe being particularly cued into personal space is a sp thing? except it's also bit of a 5, 6ish thing too, think even say so/sx cp 6s might be territorial at times for example and every 5 needs their space

just hoping i'll say something that'll make someone else say something and keep the conversation going, I have no idea what sp is, never have understood, ultimately I think it's just a flawed concept

edit: theory - the 'counter-type' can be the type working against the instinct?

i.e. could sp 2 be self-destructive, opposite of self-guarding, 'it's ok you can hurt me'? or using self-destructive behavior to gain love and attention (a la Lana del Rey*), i.e. the instinct isn't the goal, but the means?

*or Aurora is a sp 4 and think it describes disintegration to 2 'I went too far when I was begging on my knees
When I cut my hands, so you could stand and watch me bleed'

that kind of thing seems stereotypically sp 2 but it's very much 'unhealth'

edit ii: i just find the concept of sp 2 very confusing, makes sense to see a sx 2 looking for love from a lover primarily, so 2 from a group primarily, but sp 2...from bread primarily??? can never quite make it work :)
 
1 - 20 of 68 Posts
Top