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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you have any spirituality?


When I was a child my grandmother took me with her to baptist services. As soon as I got old enough, I didn't want to go. I didn't want to believe in something just because it was the "right" thing to do. For me, beliefs based on tradition aren't sufficient. My truths must have personal significance. There has to be an intuitive knowing. Buddha said, "believe nothing. find your own truth."

The ISTP way, I learn best through experience over time. Some meditative reflection of some recent powerful experiences, and major experiences throughout my life, have led to an intuitive realization that there is more to be perceived from life than just what is experienced through our five senses. And it makes sense to me logically, though I can't explain it, need to learn more about physics. That led to a feeling of oneness, a personal experiencing of God. Everything happens for a reason.

I wonder if ISTPs are prone to apathy and indifference, perhaps leading to mild depression, because life solely on the material plane can be so unfulfilling. Certainly we can do crazy things, experience rushes of adrenaline that make us feel alive, but those feelings fade quickly and we're left chasing the next physical high.

What I have needed all my life was the ability to experience ultimate bliss and peace without doing anything or going anywhere physically. I now understand that spirituality is something I have needed all my life in order to feel true happiness and contentment, in order to wake up each day simply excited to still be alive.
 

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Lucky, I'd be interested to know what your spirituality is based on.

____________________

As for me, my mother used to take me to church, and while I "believed", it never hit me in the gut. God was just some guy up there.

I tried hard to believe, but was continually put off by the behaviour of other kids my age.

I also hated that line said in the Catholic mass: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you..." which made me wonder why a being would create something, only to declare it unworthy of salvation?

By the time I was in my mid teens I was an atheist, and I still am.

Plus, if I'm understanding Christianity correctly, Satan is as vital to Christianity as God and Jesus, as so much of Christian thought is based on avoiding the temptations of the Devil... like sweet sweet booze. :tongue:
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was an atheist as well. My logic in early teens was that if I couldn't sense God, how could I prove it was real? I was just looking in the wrong places, externally as opposed to internally.

Mainly eastern philosophy. Seems like it easily appeals to the rational mind. It's just so simple. I've read a lot over the past year or so. But it's just philosophy until you can apply it to your own life and develop your own spirituality.

For me it was simply a way of thought, until, through meditation, I was able to get out of my thinking mind and into my body to truly experience that feeling of oneness, energy of being conscious of the present moment.

It's been a process of awakening and moving to higher levels of consciousness, something I've needed for a long time. But there is no end to the process.
 

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Absolutely not. Spirituality doesn't have much space in a world of logic, I'd almost dare to say a faithful ISTP doesn't exist - it certainly shouldn't anyway. I am however very philosophical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Duality is true human nature, just like the nature of all existence. We're only purely logical beings if we limit ourselves to one half. Thinkers are capable of an intense emotional life as well. I've tended to repress mine most of my life, which is why I hadn't found what I needed to find.

To me there's a big difference between faith and spirituality. I'm not interested in being faithful to ideas or things that I can't experience, for the sake of belief. Spirituality that I speak of is derived from actual personal experience, emotions being heavily involved.

Logic has it's place in my life. Determining the most efficient way of resolving this or that practical issue in daily life. But it has no use to me with regards to relationships, deriving personal significance from events. That's where my own emotions come into play.
 

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My story is similar to Capsicum's - I was raised by a rather evangelical Christian mom who would hold church and Sunday school in our living room so that we wouldn't miss out on our regular bible readings and prayers. We prayed nightly, she put all her faith in her god and expected that I would as well. She had me baptised no fewer than twelve times in my first five years of life, no shit. She was... a little extreme. She even baptised me herself in the bathtub, twice.

By age six or seven I started questioning the logic behind all of it. By my teen years, I was done. I had believed for a while - my mom was so faithful and so certain of the truth, it was hard not to. But I started reading and exploring on my own, and became agnostic at first, atheist in my 20s.

It just isn't for me.

I do respect Eastern philosophies, and I'm certainly a very good person, or I try to be. I do have a vague belief in "energy" - meaning that good energy produces more good energy, bad energy produces more bad, at a faster rate. I mean, that's just from what I've seen in interactions with people, groups, workplaces, etc. It's not really a "spiritual" belief per se - but I do try to minimize bad in my life. Whether that's some sort of mild karmic belief or not, I couldn't tell you. It's really the only intangible that I believe in.

I didn't reject the Christian god because I couldn't see, taste, smell, hear, touch him. I rejected it all because it made no sense. As I studied other religions, I found that they, too, made no sense. They just weren't logical. They weren't practical. And I can't be down with impractical beliefs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Agreed. I don't think an ISTP would be inclined towards beliefs. It's just not in our nature as perceivers.

Our truths come through experience. If it can't be experienced, then it isn't real.

But my own spirituality is an internal experience. I can't prove or even define those experiences to other people. But they're real to me if I experience them. Other people can see me in a meditative or trance state, but that may or may not mean much to an observer.

The importance I derive from it is balancing of emotional energy with the logic of the mind.


And that's the beauty of spirituality. In the outside world, I can show you how this machine works. But inner space is not observable to others.
 

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Absolutely not. Spirituality doesn't have much space in a world of logic, I'd almost dare to say a faithful ISTP doesn't exist - it certainly shouldn't anyway. I am however very philosophical.
These kinds of threads almost always lead to arguing and name calling etc, then the moderators have to come and shut it down. Basically the divide is those who believe in God and those who don't. We could argue endlessly, but I'm not going to. Personally I find it perfectly logical to believe in God and I am most certainly a logical person.
Cause and effect.
 

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Oh, arguing about religion is the least of my intentions. Had no intentions of derailing the thread in any manner, most definitely not for the worse. :mellow:
 

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My grandma (who raised me) kept trying to convert me to a christian since as long as i can remember. It never stuck. Some of the lessons had a effect on my moral codex but not God himself. I dont ever remember believing in a divine being at any point of my life. So im an atheist.
 

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What exactly is that you people have found in the eastern philosophy that's so different from - and better than - the western? Would you think you'd be thinking differently, if the Christianity wouldn't have been forced down your throats?
( Something else than hopelessly ignorant people preaching their only truth and not listening to anything else, I mean. I am well aware that every church is full of those.)

The reason of my asking this is that I find most of the religions basically the same. But then I am interested in the religions on a theoretical level, because I think there's no way I could know anything for sure anyway.

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My personal background:

I'm from Finland where the majority of the people belongs to the Evangelic Lutheran church and visits the church only at weddings, funerals and such. The church basically holds that the relationship between the God and a person is first and foremost their personal issue. In other words, nobody can judge other people but the God. Even the priests can only advice, and only if you ask them to. In here it's not considered polite to seek to interfere with other people's lives if not invited to.

As a kid there was a Bible quizz competition thingy in my school and I read most of the New Testament and some of the Old (I liked specially the the Moses 4th book, the one that explains what kinds of tassels the priests should have). I hated the religion classes, though, because I found the Jesus' life story a bit repetitive (for some reason that was pretty much all they told there - year after year). I have also been involved with the church youth stuff, though mainly because my friends went there.

The best moral teaching I've ever found, by the way, I learned from a children's fairy tale.
 

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I'd like to say yes but the fact remains that I only pray when I am desperate so it's really hard to say.
 

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I'm not ready to be spiritual yet. I'm recovering from spiritual and religious abuse, for my own health I've let go of any belief in god or spiritual practices. I'm open to branching out and becoming spiritual again with time, but right now I can't ever realistically see myself doing that. I'm more at peace now than I ever was when I was spiritual.
 

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I die a little inside everytime I hear someone say "in the name of god".

I enjoy religion and spirituality from a philosophical point of view. But I dislike the way that the authority behind organized religion is abused to coerse people into certain behaviours.

I'm an atheist btw.
 

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I die a little inside everytime I hear someone say "in the name of god".

I enjoy religion and spirituality from a philosophical point of view. But I dislike the way that the authority behind organized religion is abused to coerse people into certain behaviours.

I'm an atheist btw.
Yes, a lot of crimes and sins have been committed "In the name of God." Assuming that there is a God, it doesn't mean that God approves of or directed all those bad things to happen.
Ever hear about cops or politicians who abuse their power/authority? It is illegal. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don't.
The God (that I believe in) will make an accounting of all those wrongs committed in his name, he has already promised to.
 

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Yes, a lot of crimes and sins have been committed "In the name of God." Assuming that there is a God, it doesn't mean that God approves of or directed all those bad things to happen.
Ever hear about cops or politicians who abuse their power/authority? It is illegal. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don't.
The God (that I believe in) will make an accounting of all those wrongs committed in his name, he has already promised to.
I think we can agree that someone abusing their authority is a bad thing.:wink:
 

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I'm agnostic.....but...I do think life has no meaning to it..other than to pass your DNA on to the next generation and making this rock we call earth a better place for everyone...failing both of those...you fail at life...lol...and I'm not depressed but...I've hated living since I could remember.....there's no real point in human beings or any living thing to exist ..we just do.....everyday I wake up an I'm like damn still alive.....I just hope that humans arent some big experiment or a chess game between deitys that would make me even more apt to hating life....
 

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I'm agnostic.....but...I do think life has no meaning to it..other than to pass your DNA on to the next generation and making this rock we call earth a better place for everyone...failing both of those...you fail at life...lol...and I'm not depressed but...I've hated living since I could remember.....there's no real point in human beings or any living thing to exist ..we just do.....everyday I wake up an I'm like damn still alive.....I just hope that humans arent some big experiment or a chess game between deitys that would make me even more apt to hating life....
Maybe just living is the point.
Regardless is one believes in a higher power or not, the Universe is fine tuned for life. Our incredibly small planet is teeming with life!
So, enjoy life to it's fullest.
 

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Maybe just living is the point.
Regardless is one believes in a higher power or not, the Universe is fine tuned for life. Our incredibly small planet is teeming with life!
So, enjoy life to it's fullest.
Some people can't enjoy life to its fullest..thanks to life sucking :bored:
 
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