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before I begin, starcraft 2 is a realtime strategy game on PC that rules. If you don't have it you're wrong.

Anyway, I made a little interesting observation on what I think might pertain to the INFP extraverted thinking. So, my INFP friend bought starcraft 2. I'm doing everything in my power to teach him how to play, but he's just terrible at it because he can't come up with a strategy fast enough to react. I sat next to him and actually walked him through a strategy against an opponent that had no forces to attack him with. Here is how the dialogue between us went: (don't worry if you don't understand the character names, its just jargon.)

me: so, he has a wall blocking his base. What do you want to do?
infp: um... *heavy contemplation*... I want to send the banelings to blow up the wall
*several more seconds pass*... and then... um... *a couple more seconds* I want to bring the roaches in and attack them... *several more seconds*... and then I want to attack with the corruptors.
me: alright lets do it.
infp: *proceeds to send in the banelings, destroys the wall as planned, but didn't send in the rest of the units until I asked "what about the rest of them?"

In the end he won the match, but tactics that I find so incredibly trivial and make in a split second, he physically seemed to have a hard time. I think his whole decision took about 8 to 10 seconds.

So in your experience would this be an example of a very weak extraverted thinking (Te) function? Or is he just... special? and what other functions would he have to use to turn him into an expert?

This isn't actually a question about starcraft 2, I'm just trying to understand the functions better.
 

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Starcraft 2 is a cash grab because you have to wait for the expansions to get the Zerg and Protoss, which is pretty lame.

Anyway, a lot of people regardless of type have problems with real time strategies. Since you said you were teaching him, it sounds like he's new, and most people suck at it when they're new.
 

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I think starcraft 1 was brilliant, and starcraft 2 is retarded. My first impression was "oh my gosh they spent 11 years working on nothing but the graphics engine" Which is pretty accurate. Sure they have a great storyline for it... A storyline that you have to pay $180 for. That requires internet access to play. Yes they have battlenet. No they don't have LAN. Yes every map you make must be approved by blizzard before you can play it. Starcraft 2 just isn't worth the money to me. I don't think I would pay more then $10 for it.




As for your friend... He's just special. Probably doesn't play enough strategy games.
 
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before I begin, starcraft 2 is a realtime strategy game on PC that rules. If you don't have it you're wrong.

Anyway, I made a little interesting observation on what I think might pertain to the INFP extraverted thinking. So, my INFP friend bought starcraft 2. I'm doing everything in my power to teach him how to play, but he's just terrible at it because he can't come up with a strategy fast enough to react. I sat next to him and actually walked him through a strategy against an opponent that had no forces to attack him with. Here is how the dialogue between us went: (don't worry if you don't understand the character names, its just jargon.)

me: so, he has a wall blocking his base. What do you want to do?
infp: um... *heavy contemplation*... I want to send the banelings to blow up the wall
*several more seconds pass*... and then... um... *a couple more seconds* I want to bring the roaches in and attack them... *several more seconds*... and then I want to attack with the corruptors.
me: alright lets do it.
infp: *proceeds to send in the banelings, destroys the wall as planned, but didn't send in the rest of the units until I asked "what about the rest of them?"

In the end he won the match, but tactics that I find so incredibly trivial and make in a split second, he physically seemed to have a hard time. I think his whole decision took about 8 to 10 seconds.

So in your experience would this be an example of a very weak extraverted thinking (Te) function? Or is he just... special? and what other functions would he have to use to turn him into an expert?

This isn't actually a question about starcraft 2, I'm just trying to understand the functions better.
I got SC2 and uninstalled it after just a few hours of play time. The problem is that it is the exact same gameplay as SC1 with improved graphics. While some people like the "classic" feel, the fact is other RTS games are moving forward and focusing more on tactics and less on micromanagement (DoW2, DoTA, even SoSE). I think games with a slower pace (SoSE), and fewer units (DoW2, etc) require more strategy, and thus might be more connected to type. But juggling 63 hotkeys and 143 units makes SC2 a "twitch" game, as much as UT3 or Quake. The "strategy" in the game is somewhat similar to that involved in solving a Rubik's Cube... just twist the cube really fast and use the same algorithms over and over again. Sure there might be a lot of stuff to memorize, but you aren't really "thinking" about anything... it becomes instinctual.

So no, I don't think type has any effect on games such as SC2. And you're friend isn't "special" - he just hasn't played long enough (you wouldn't expect somebody who just picked up a Rubik's Cube to be able to solve it blindfolded in 30 seconds). If he keeps practicing, he'll get there soon.
 

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hmm. True. I mean he's been playing it non-stop for a couple weeks now. I feel like he'd have gotten it by now?
 

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I dislike strategy games as I have the same problems as your friend.

Most of the time I try doing things in response with what the other person is doing but if so much goes on I lose track and focus, end up forgetting things, Not realising things etc etc.

Sometimes I can be good at them other times I'm just plain rubbish. :mellow: Well most of the time.
 

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Personally, I kick ass at games. Does it mean I come in like that? Not at all, but I take a death or loss as "personal". It makes me feel inferior, after that I'll start reading up little strats and doing certain things that give you the most TRIVIAL benefit (+but add them together and it's not that bad).

After all that I usually start to tear it up.

To actually answer your question though, INFPs generally have different ideals. Your INFP may not take it as personal or may simply think of way too many things and not actually act on one for awhile. Through trial and error they should be improving on that thinking time, although I'm certain it will still lag from time to time. The first thought that came to mind is an INFP and driving. Trying to make a turn, but then noticing someone that will need to cross the street in 5 seconds, and a speeder that might come up in 3 seconds, etc etc etc. So much stimulation goes on that it's just an overload and they end up doing nothing until everything passes. By definition, that might be a crappy driver. In the end, some people are overwhelmed easier than others.
 

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I actually purchased SC2 on day of release and played it for less than five minutes before thinking "Duuuullll". I just can't 'do' strategy games; they bore the pants off me. There have been exceptions over the years (C&C games = <3) but unless it's fast paced skirmishes (which to be honest I suck at anyway) I'm really not that interested.

FPS games are my forte, especially 'twitch' gaming like instagib in Unreal Tournament.

I suck these days (no time to play) but back when I was a student I was sickeningly good at them. I used to empty servers out because people thought I was hacking :crazy:
 

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zerg is a weak ass race. They are 100% dependent on reactionary strategic play and having more economic income. Most decent terran/toss players would be terrible zerg players.

I'm a gold/plat zerg player and I'm not great, but until they fix zerg and give them more effective ways of countering terran/toss unit compositions, i'd blame zerg, not your friend.
 

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I never played starcraft 1, started playing SC2 since release and Im kinda hooked.

I cannot get my INFP brother into it though. He finds it boring.
 

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It sounds more like a lack of Se rather than a lack of Te. We have a much harder time reacting to constantly-changing scenarios like those in RTS games. If I'm not mistaken, both Se and Ti take things as they come and react to them fairly easily. I think I rely mostly on Si and Te... That is, trying to remember what worked before and which of those strategies will work best now.

Lad described my problem with RTS fairly well. I get a little overwhelmed at everything going on. Add in that I'm not particularly a good strategist and, well... I rarely win the fight for our team. See, I have a hard time going from micro-management to something else like base building or ordering another group of units around. As long as you expect me to do one task, I'll be very good at it, but don't expect me to hold two points very well. This is why I'm the one defending home base or objectives in most RTS games; I rarely ever get overrun or pushed out. Going offensive is quite difficult because it usually forces me to notice ten things at once and try to react to them. I can't do that.

And I have a hard time memorizing what works best against what. For DOW2, a friend and I eventually made a color chart depicting which unit killed another unit best and that was extremely helpful. Literally all it was was an excel sheet saying, "Scouts work best against devestator squads, but will die in the face of tacticals," but my skill went up once I had a visual reference.

Testing things out in practice games really helps, too, since it gives Ne something to focus on (different possibilities, tactics, combinations, etc.). As does simply showing me what works. It sounds like you're doing things great by having him figure it out on his own--just telling him what to do all the time is boring and won't hold his interest--but don't expect him to get it in two weeks. Try to find what exactly he's best at in RTS, maybe suggest a change in race.
 

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His 'lag' is due to intuition calculating what is the best route to take for the long term. Intuition sees multiple possibilities. His mind needs to sort through them before he can act.

I find sensors are more reactive in the moment so to say. I had a similar discussion with somebody about difference between ISFJs and INFJs and why the later seem less emotional than the former to the naked eye. It is because sensors just react more strongly to whatever is presented to you in the moment. Thus ISJFs will voice whatever emotions have overtaken them in the moment. INFJ is going to pause and think about how those emotions relate to past, present, future, the life, the universe, and anything and get back to you with their reaction a few months later.

In online games ISTPs seem to me like these hurricanes of action - they randomly spin around and kill a lot of stuff in the process but focus is lacking. They just do, do, do things without stopping and realigning their actions with some bigger longer-term strategy. These are younger ISTPs whose Ni hasn't really developed yet. So I just think it is difference between having intuition or sensory function higher up your cognitive ladder and also if he is a younger INFP his sensory function is probably in process of developing. Thus he gets 'stuck' in his intuition and has problems reacting rapidly to the moment.

Off topic, anyone bored with starcraft check out this game: EVE Online
Be warned though it is full of NTs, so if you hate NTs don't venture there :p
 

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It sounds more like a lack of Se rather than a lack of Te.
I don't really think so. Strategizing in different scenarios is not an action of Se since Se is only an extroverted perception function. But an STP's Se and Ti together may give them an advantage in this game.
 

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I have a cousin who is netting a lot of wins in solo, I would expect hes a ISXX, but I am not sure. Anyway, I expect he is working on routine, and simply succeeds in doing the things according to schedule. It's like he knows what to do in 1v1. He is much worse in teamgame situations. This same guy does the rubix in below 20 seconds, and it is simply practice practice practice.

I think there is a function that identifies a situation and then acts accordingly really quick.
 

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I don't really think so. Strategizing in different scenarios is not an action of Se since Se is only an extroverted perception function. But an STP's Se and Ti together may give them an advantage in this game.
True, and the first part may have been a developing Te function at work and, as Vel said, his Ne calculating possibilities. But forgetting about the other half of his units, I think that's a lack of Se, since in RTS games you have to be aware of several things at once. It's easy to forget what's going on by focusing too much on one area.
 

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u complain SC2 is SC1 with better graphics ... but thats it ... there is nothing else to improve ... OMFG realize that SC1 is allover best RTS game ever ... not just personal statement ... all those contests, professionals playin it ... huge community

Blizzard isnt any risktaker/innovator ... they focus on technical quality and perfectness ... thats all ... i think they never did somethin original ... they dont need to risk and innovate lol

originality is cool ... but hey ... for starters there arent even much companies that focus so much on these basic qualities of games ... like flawless engine, control, good optimization, etc
 

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If you think Zerg sucks, chances are you're just terrible. :p


Never played SC1, came from DotA and very limited WC3, but never had trouble catching on. While I do consider DotA quite an entertaining game, it's certainly boring to watch, whereas SC2 does much better for the spectators.
 

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His 'lag' is due to intuition calculating what is the best route to take for the long term. Intuition sees multiple possibilities. His mind needs to sort through them before he can act.

I find sensors are more reactive in the moment so to say. I had a similar discussion with somebody about difference between ISFJs and INFJs and why the later seem less emotional than the former to the naked eye. It is because sensors just react more strongly to whatever is presented to you in the moment. Thus ISJFs will voice whatever emotions have overtaken them in the moment. INFJ is going to pause and think about how those emotions relate to past, present, future, the life, the universe, and anything and get back to you with their reaction a few months later.

In online games ISTPs seem to me like these hurricanes of action - they randomly spin around and kill a lot of stuff in the process but focus is lacking. They just do, do, do things without stopping and realigning their actions with some bigger longer-term strategy. These are younger ISTPs whose Ni hasn't really developed yet. So I just think it is difference between having intuition or sensory function higher up your cognitive ladder and also if he is a younger INFP his sensory function is probably in process of developing. Thus he gets 'stuck' in his intuition and has problems reacting rapidly to the moment.

Off topic, anyone bored with starcraft check out this game: EVE Online
Be warned though it is full of NTs, so if you hate NTs don't venture there :p

LOL. <3 soooo true.
 
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