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I was talking to my gf? friend with benefits? person? about how the english language does not seem to communicate emotion effectively. I feel so tied down in this language. My gffriendwithbenifitsperson is half russian and speaks the language fluently.....andd she loves it. So yea.. i dunno. Do you feel that way?
haha,
gffriendwithbenifitsperson
there's a good example right there, language wise! i am all for the making up of words for this reason! language anarchy, WOOOO!

anyway, yeah i definitely feel that way, i've noticed that as i've learnt different foreign languages, it's like i can see the world in a whole new way! it's like looking through differently distorted binoculars or something... and that's part of what i love about foreign languages. just as they say, so much can be lost in translation, and sometimes there's really no translation at all. i hadn't thought about it terms of communicating emotion, but i can totally see that, seems true to me. i've heard english really sucks as a language, lol. i'm just glad i didn't have to learn it as a second language, would be a really crappy language to have to learn i think!! though of course english has it's beauty too.

it's amazing how much is embedded and transfered in language... culture, vision, wisdom... emotion.. and it's also amazing how much language can limit our perception and experience of the world too.

as a side note, i've noticed that many INFPs seem to get along well with people from different countries and cultures, perhaps that ability to empathetically connect helps. or maybe that empathetic connection is necessary to really connect with someone from a different language background, and that ensures depth of relating, which it's probably safe to say most INFPs want, so it makes sense in that way too!
 

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My best friend in the sixth grade didn't speak much English, and I didn't speak any Korean, so we communicated by drawing pictures on note cards for a while. :)
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haha, there's a good example right there, language wise! i am all for the making up of words for this reason! language anarchy, WOOOO!

anyway, yeah i definitely feel that way, i've noticed that as i've learnt different foreign languages, it's like i can see the world in a whole new way! it's like looking through differently distorted binoculars or something... and that's part of what i love about foreign languages. just as they say, so much can be lost in translation, and sometimes there's really no translation at all. i hadn't thought about it terms of communicating emotion, but i can totally see that, seems true to me. i've heard english really sucks as a language, lol. i'm just glad i didn't have to learn it as a second language, would be a really crappy language to have to learn i think!! though of course english has it's beauty too.

it's amazing how much is embedded and transfered in language... culture, vision, wisdom... emotion.. and it's also amazing how much language can limit our perception and experience of the world too.

as a side note, i've noticed that many INFPs seem to get along well with people from different countries and cultures, perhaps that ability to empathetically connect helps. or maybe that empathetic connection is necessary to really connect with someone from a different language background, and that ensures depth of relating, which it's probably safe to say most INFPs want, so it makes sense in that way too!

YES I have totally noticed your last paragraph there as well. ....I've been wondering if people from other countries are just more intuitive. I was wondering if there had been any case studies, surveys, etc. concerning mbti in other countries.
 

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I had also wondered about the MBTI makeup in other countries. It was the first thing I tried to find information on after I got into MBTI. I don't recall finding any really convincing evidence though. Spotty research when I looked. Perhaps someone from another country on PC could help out with this?
 

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I had also wondered about the MBTI makeup in other countries. It was the first thing I tried to find information on after I got into MBTI. I don't recall finding any really convincing evidence though. Spotty research when I looked. Perhaps someone from another country on PC could help out with this?

anddd this is why I've decided to major in psychology and do research.
 

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YES I have totally noticed your last paragraph there as well. ....I've been wondering if people from other countries are just more intuitive. I was wondering if there had been any case studies, surveys, etc. concerning mbti in other countries.
hmmm, it would be interesting to see the different personality type demographics in different cultures, for sure! but i suspect, like, when we meet foreigners in our own country it might be a sort of forced awareness or consciousness, even if someone's not usually especially intuitive you know? like, they have to be, or it helps to get by if they can develop their intuition when trying to get along in a foreign country, if that makes any sense! like, it helps to get past the language barrier. maybe. just a guess.
 

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hmmm, it would be interesting to see the different personality type demographics in different cultures, for sure! but i suspect, like, when we meet foreigners in our own country it might be a sort of forced awareness or consciousness, even if someone's not usually especially intuitive you know? like, they have to be, or it helps to get by if they can develop their intuition when trying to get along in a foreign country, if that makes any sense! like, it helps to get past the language barrier. maybe. just a guess.
Ahhh sorry...I don't think I understand.
 

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I was talking to my gf? friend with benefits? person? about how the english language does not seem to communicate emotion effectively. I feel so tied down in this language. My gffriendwithbenifitsperson is half russian and speaks the language fluently.....andd she loves it. So yea.. i dunno. Do you feel that way?
English is excellent for emotion, their are several different words for the same thing that each convey a certain emotional connotation. Don't blame the tool for you feelings of inadequacy using it, it does you a disservice and will only lead to further frustration. It's not the languages fault more an issue of having issues translating your emotion into a rational framework. You seem to have issues not with language, or emotion but mainly understanding yourself from a rational prospective. Reason being one of the most direct tools for communication you often feel constricted by your inability to communicate what your really thinking. You know what your really feeling, but feeling is just another type of thought. Thought that you are not consciously aware of, so you need to learn how to figure out what it is your feeling from a rational prospective. Then you can convey your message and the exact emotional connotation through speech and accurate vocabulary. (At least that's what I get from reading your posts.) Don't take it personally, I don't think that it's an issue of being incapable just out of practice. Why would you be out of practice, I don't know. But I know you can do it. It might even make things easier. This is the only post that I really felt I might be able to contribute some helpful advice on so far so I hope it helps.
 

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Ahhh sorry...I don't think I understand.
lol i could very well be not making any sense. definite possibility...(!) i guess i thought you were saying foreigners seem more intuitive, but i thought that might just be because they are maybe actively fighting a language barrier, so tapping into intuition probably helps, so maybe they come across as more intuitive or something.
 

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English is excellent for emotion, their are several different words for the same thing that each convey a certain emotional connotation. Don't blame the tool for you feelings of inadequacy using it, it does you a disservice and will only lead to further frustration. It's not the languages fault more an issue of having issues translating your emotion into a rational framework. You seem to have issues not with language, or emotion but mainly understanding yourself from a rational prospective. Reason being one of the most direct tools for communication you often feel constricted by your inability to communicate what your really thinking. You know what your really feeling, but feeling is just another type of thought. Thought that you are not consciously aware of, so you need to learn how to figure out what it is your feeling from a rational prospective. Then you can convey your message and the exact emotional connotation through speech and accurate vocabulary. (At least that's what I get from reading your posts.) Don't take it personally, I don't think that it's an issue of being incapable just out of practice. Why would you be out of practice, I don't know. But I know you can do it. It might even make things easier. This is the only post that I really felt I might be able to contribute some helpful advice on so far so I hope it helps.


Understand myself from a rational perspective? I merely spoke about language. How does this translate into me not being able to understand myself from a rational perspective?
 

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While the English language offers a wide variety of word choices to facilitate accuracy, I agree with those who claim it lacks words that adequately describe some experiences within the complete emotional spectrum. Feelings aren't like flavors that can be described as various combinations of a limited range of possibilities like sweet, bitter, salty, sour, or savory. They are more complex than the ways we are affected by the physical senses. What I was feeling the other day had such subtle nuances that no combination of happy, sad, angry, etc. could quite define it or pinpoint its meaning. I struggled to come up with the right word, not because I lack self-awareness or adequate verbal skills, but because the word I needed did not exist. I eventually had to resort to comparisons with physical situations, to describe it symbolically by how it related to other things that were describable. This was especially limiting because it interrupted my train of thought and cut off the feeling I was trying to understand.
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Understand myself from a rational perspective? I merely spoke about language. How does this translate into me not being able to understand myself from a rational perspective?
This is fair and I figured I was neither clear enough or presented a sound enough case but I may have gotten you to question what the hell it even meant right. Alright so here's my shot at articulating this accurately. Language is merely a tool to convey thought, if you cannot articulate how you feel the most fundamental reason and root reason would be, do to a lack of understanding of what it is you feel consciously. We all understand emotion on the subconscious level, I mean emotion is the subconscious trying to communicate to the conscious mind what it is thinking.

Would you say that you know what you believe but you can't find the right words for it. If this is so, then it probably means that A) One lacks the vocabulary to properly express yourself which I don't think is true in your case. B) One lacks a conscious understanding of exactly what it is that you believe. You know the jist and you get the cliff notes version from the emotional "feel." but the things that lead to your subconscious favoring this position still allude you. (The metaphorical you, and this is only a guess.)

If your not aware of the nuts and bolts, then you can't accurately articulate what it is you feel in a meaningful and easy to understand manner. It's not that English lacks the tools, (metaphor, symbolism, correct verbiage, and the tone of the word you are using. Example hurried versus rushed.) I could be completely off base but I thought that was what you where getting at maybe I just have a really hard time seeing things through your eyes. If I offended you it wasn't intentional, it was in no way an indictment of character. It was simply trying to offer a helpful solution to a problem that seemed to have presented itself. (Something I generally can't stop myself from doing.)
 

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English is excellent for emotion, their are several different words for the same thing that each convey a certain emotional connotation. Don't blame the tool for you feelings of inadequacy using it, it does you a disservice and will only lead to further frustration. It's not the languages fault more an issue of having issues translating your emotion into a rational framework. You seem to have issues not with language, or emotion but mainly understanding yourself from a rational prospective. Reason being one of the most direct tools for communication you often feel constricted by your inability to communicate what your really thinking. You know what your really feeling, but feeling is just another type of thought. Thought that you are not consciously aware of, so you need to learn how to figure out what it is your feeling from a rational prospective. Then you can convey your message and the exact emotional connotation through speech and accurate vocabulary. (At least that's what I get from reading your posts.) Don't take it personally, I don't think that it's an issue of being incapable just out of practice. Why would you be out of practice, I don't know. But I know you can do it. It might even make things easier. This is the only post that I really felt I might be able to contribute some helpful advice on so far so I hope it helps.


Feelings are not rational. I don't really have an "issue". I'm rather offended you took that out of a casual conversation. Though my interpretation could be wrong.

I think my view on feelings and thought is based on MBTI theory.

1. Feeling is a form of judgement that is used in a subjective manner. Using your feelings to guide you will give you a subjective truth....about humans basically. Using thinking will give you an objective truth.....about the world around us bascially. Neither one is superior. To approach feelings from a "rational view point" .....I can't really tell you how weird that statement is. Feelings are not rational like I said. Emotions must be understood through feelings.....


....all I can say is study the MBTI. You will find out more about yourself and how you view the world than you ever thought possible. Plus I am not the best teacher.

INFP= Fi Ne Si Te Fe Ni Se Ti

In order to express emotion....you must have something that resembles it ....take a violin....the ocean....the wind.....or a mystery. INFPs are known for using symbols and metaphors to explain what they are feeling. You can't describe emotions from a rational perspective and really understand your emotions. Emotions are understood by your feelings.
 

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Feelings are not rational. I don't really have an "issue". I'm rather offended you took that out of a casual conversation. Though my interpretation could be wrong.
It wasn't specifically from that post but from several of the posts I've read of yours, on top of that I saw it as more of a general issue not specific to you but an issue that helps to cloud judgment.

I think my view on feelings and thought is based on MBTI theory.

1. Feeling is a form of judgement that is used in a subjective manner. Using your feelings to guide you will give you a subjective truth....about humans basically. Using thinking will give you an objective truth.....about the world around us bascially. Neither one is superior. To approach feelings from a "rational view point" .....I can't really tell you how weird that statement is. Feelings are not rational like I said. Emotions must be understood through feelings.....
This is where you and me differ mostly, feelings are used to identify emotion.... not understand it. All understanding is subjective and the best we can do is to try and be objective. Often we allow emotion to cloud a truth about ourself, through pride or the need to escape an uncomfortable truth. Feeling allows us to understand ourselves because it gives us a readily available way to identify not analyze. That is where reason comes into place, if one has the ability to suspend judgment and question ones emotions. It often allows to understand consciously and rationally what we are feeling. Feelings operate on logic, it may be fuzzy, but their is a cause and effect and understanding behind it. Once these things are identified it becomes possible for one to make changes in them or understand them in others. So yes feelings are part of the puzzle, just as reason is part of the puzzle when it comes to humanity.

....all I can say is study the MBTI. You will find out more about yourself and how you view the world than you ever thought possible. Plus I am not the best teacher.

INFP= Fi Ne Si Te Fe Ni Se Ti

In order to express emotion....you must have something that resembles it ....take a violin....the ocean....the wind.....or a mystery. INFPs are known for using symbols and metaphors to explain what they are feeling. You can't describe emotions from a rational perspective and really understand your emotions. Emotions are understood by your feelings.
No you can in fact do it and that's the only way I've ever been able to get anything worth while or useful out of them.
 

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I hate how I don't spend my time on a good purpose, and if I do it usually results in the poorest effort I could give. Right now it's about 20 percent effort. I cbf with writing either. I'd like to improve and look like a master mind but I'd just rather procrastinate like I normally do.
 

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It wasn't specifically from that post but from several of the posts I've read of yours, on top of that I saw it as more of a general issue not specific to you but an issue that helps to cloud judgment.



This is where you and me differ mostly, feelings are used to identify emotion.... not understand it. All understanding is subjective and the best we can do is to try and be objective. Often we allow emotion to cloud a truth about ourself, through pride or the need to escape an uncomfortable truth. Feeling allows us to understand ourselves because it gives us a readily available way to identify not analyze. That is where reason comes into place, if one has the ability to suspend judgment and question ones emotions. It often allows to understand consciously and rationally what we are feeling. Feelings operate on logic, it may be fuzzy, but their is a cause and effect and understanding behind it. Once these things are identified it becomes possible for one to make changes in them or understand them in others. So yes feelings are part of the puzzle, just as reason is part of the puzzle when it comes to humanity.



No you can in fact do it and that's the only way I've ever been able to get anything worth while or useful out of them.

That was fascinating. This all sounds very interesting and intriguing....I'll read more later....I got class in a sec.
 

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It wasn't specifically from that post but from several of the posts I've read of yours, on top of that I saw it as more of a general issue not specific to you but an issue that helps to cloud judgment.



This is where you and me differ mostly, feelings are used to identify emotion.... not understand it. All understanding is subjective and the best we can do is to try and be objective. Often we allow emotion to cloud a truth about ourself, through pride or the need to escape an uncomfortable truth. Feeling allows us to understand ourselves because it gives us a readily available way to identify not analyze. That is where reason comes into place, if one has the ability to suspend judgment and question ones emotions. It often allows to understand consciously and rationally what we are feeling. Feelings operate on logic, it may be fuzzy, but their is a cause and effect and understanding behind it. Once these things are identified it becomes possible for one to make changes in them or understand them in others. So yes feelings are part of the puzzle, just as reason is part of the puzzle when it comes to humanity.



No you can in fact do it and that's the only way I've ever been able to get anything worth while or useful out of them.
often we allow emotion to cloud a truth about ourself, through pride or the need to escape an uncomfortable truth.
What do you mean? Why do you believe this?

Feelings operate on logic, it may be fuzzy, but their is a cause and effect and understanding behind it
How exactly do feelings operate on logic? Give me a specific example.

No you can in fact do it and that's the only way I've ever been able to get anything worth while or useful out of them.
You can in fact do what? Explain an emotion? I suppose you could. But in order to put someone in your subjective experience and let them feel all of the little dissonances that you feel....it's much easier just to play them a song....or write them a poem....rather than come towards it logically....if you explain it logically ....they will more than likely understand with their minds....not their hearts.


Also...I sense that you are attacking this from a very different paradigm. I am not aware of your paradigm....therefore it is rather hard to debate over this...
 

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What do you mean? Why do you believe this?

How exactly do feelings operate on logic? Give me a specific example.
Look I'm not talking about standard text book, eliminate incorrect answers logic. I'm talking more along the lines of reason, causal effect relationships. The emotional mind predicts things, interprets things, gives connections and meaning to things. However it has a definite lack of an ability to check if it's explanations are correct or not. That is where reason comes in, it's the part that goes no this won't work this won't work but this one might. Emotions are built around assumptions about the world, that get modified as we live by reason, or by the subconscious mind drawing a connection between two things. An example would be, a black person once pulled a gun on me that threatened my life black people are bad. From a basic standpoint this is correct in the sense that it might alert you to be conscious of a certain group of people that you have had difficulty with in the past. It also over generalizes, assumes black is connected with violence and thus fear. It's a more negative example but an example none the less. The rational mind will evaluate it's accuracy, and look for inconsistencies. You, use your emotions to understand the world, and your reason for ways in which you are wrong. Thus emotion opperates on a set of rules, and reason. It's own logic if you will, it's at times inaccurate but in general effective, that is where reason comes in, it comes up with all of the ways in which you are wrong.

You can in fact do what? Explain an emotion? I suppose you could. But in order to put someone in your subjective experience and let them feel all of the little dissonances that you feel....it's much easier just to play them a song....or write them a poem....rather than come towards it logically....if you explain it logically ....they will more than likely understand with their minds....not their hearts.
Yes a poem is a use of the english language through words which you earlier stated was not very good at communicating emotion. Conveying an emotion, does not mean getting across the information that emotion was trying to convey to you. You can make someone feel sad the key to that is can you make them understand why you feel sad. That is where knowing the inns and outs of yourself through rational observation and continued questioning plays a vital role. Anyone can make a sad song, artists can make a song that says I'm sad and this is why.


Also...I sense that you are attacking this from a very different paradigm. I am not aware of your paradigm....therefore it is rather hard to debate over this...
I attack everything from a different paradigm because I in fact have a broken head.:laughing: But yeah most debates tend to be based on people looking at something with vastly different experience bases. As well as having vastly different definitions of what is what.
 
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