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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I hope you can cope well with it though. Sorry, it sounds as if you have a few inconsiderate, drama seeking friends who are not real friends at all.

I used to want desperately to belong too, especially when I was studying in a foreign country far away from home (Will study there again for 2011/2012 intake anyway). However, at this point of my life now, I'd rather be alone in certain social settings than have friends like that.

Wouldn't you feel better if you stood up for yourself?

I don't mean to sound critical, sorry. Obviously I don't know much about you and the situation, so sorry if I'm being critical/ insensitive/ misunderstanding.

But if you have to survive one more year alone in school just because you want to stand up for yourself and find your own way instead of potentially getting yourself down because of bad peers, I won't judge you. We just can't please everyone.
This is how I discovered I'm not an introvert. I can't stand being alone. I don't want to belong, I just want to get by without the pain of being socially excluded.

I never looked at it as not being able to stand up for myself though. If they think they're controlling me, what does that say about their image of me? That I'm weak? Why are they even making people turn against me when I leave them? Gahh. I'm not taking that shit. Maybe I should talk to Jojo and get more insight into all this, she doesn't like any of my friends and she won't tell me why. Of course, I never told her I didn't like my friends either.
 

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This is how I discovered I'm not an introvert. I can't stand being alone. I don't want to belong, I just want to get by without the pain of being socially excluded.

I never looked at it as not being able to stand up for myself though. If they think they're controlling me, what does that say about their image of me? That I'm weak? Why are they even making people turn against me when I leave them? Gahh. I'm not taking that shit. Maybe I should talk to Jojo and get more insight into all this, she doesn't like any of my friends and she won't tell me why. Of course, I never told her I didn't like my friends either.
Ah okay. Sorry I wasn't being understanding enough. I am after all an introvert :crazy: heh.
 

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Here's what I have to say:

You: kill the ESFP.
ESFP: should go fuck herself and die ASAP.
ESTJ: TOUGHEN THE FUCK UP!
 

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You should start ignoring and cutting out the ESFP. If she treat you like that then you shouldn't concider her a friend that you go to all the time. While I still don't think it was her fault for the suicide. I don't think she is a very good person. Just start slowly dropping her out of your life and see if she really gives a shit. You shouldn't let her walk all over you and now that you've let us know more about her treatment towards you I wouldn't trust her either.

I don't think that you should drop her completely, but thats only because I think if you do that she would have more reason to treat you horribly and start rumors about you and all that junk. If you slowly start to apathetically cut her out of your life it would be more painful and confusing for her, and force her to consider whether or not she cares about you. If she does, she would make more of an effort for you and if she doesn't then you have her out of your life and done with.

Tips:

Ignoring every other phone call and text message
Pick up and she what she says for a little bit and then say "Oh i gotta go" before she finishes
Hanging out less
Forming a new group without her


In all honesty you can use this whole event with your cousin as a chance to get closer to your cousin and distance yourself from the ESFP. I guess I don't understand how you can't be close to your family. My cousin's are like my sisters to me old and young. It sounds like she needs a good influence in her life and someone to care about her. She sounds impressionable.

Also, you should ask yourself if these views of the ESFP are real, or if your just interpreting events a certain way because you don't understand it. I would personally bring up your emotions with the ESFP and try to appeal to that good nature you talked about. There are a lot of mixed messages about all of these people that you mention. You claim that the ESFP has this good side, but you also mention that she's treated you like shit. I would bring up these things that have hurt you with her at some point and tell her that you feel like she doesn't really care sometimes. She's going to tell you that your being silly and that she does care about you but you should stress that while she says such things, her actions speak louder to you than her words. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences on other people, and if she refuses to then you should make the transition into cutting her out.

Its easy for ESFP to go on living without a worry of how they are acting if there are no consequences.
 

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If somebody is dumb enough to commit suicide, let them. We don't need people like that in our society. The world is overpopulated as it is. You can call me a bitch, I don't care. But healthy people don't need to waste their time talking people out of committing suicide. It's their choice. Girls are dramatic as hell. If you're worried about her, send her to the psychiatric ward.
Agreed, especially the overpopulation part.... Except for the "girls are dramatic" part, I've seen more guys give me headaches about threatening suicide than girls.

OK. Speaking as an ESFP....

In any case, I consider it a basic legal duty to call 911 or a hotline for them or something. It's annoying, and I think a lot of people DO threaten for attention, but I don't want to be held responsible for negligence of citizen's duty or anything...so do it anyway. Who knows what you could get sued for, manslaughter by inaction? I'm not risking it. Call 911. The story/drama behind it is irrelevant. It's like GTFO the theater if someone yells "Fire!"

Anyhoo, the trouble that the crier will be put through ought to teach her a lesson about not trying to solicit pity in such extreme ways.

Probably your ESFP friend had NO education regarding suicide attempts when she took sex ed or wherever people learn this stuff, and so she didn't know what to do. By no means am I defending her, but come on, no one handles every situation perfectly. Whatever, I'm no expert on this either. Just going by common sense.
 

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Learning she's been tested, then even the remotest suggestion of being the cause of someone's suicide would probably not mean a person's not taking things seriously, though it can cause them to act in a cold or an eventually detrimental manner. The way the ESFP's treated you and others so far indicates something's up. It's not your place to feel guilty if you decide to sever ties - maybe you will, I guess just try not to give yourself a hard time in all this, - she's been a bitch, and your well being is more important than hers at the end of the day, but maybe that includes looking after her, maybe not, who knows.

I just want to suggest it as a possibility if it's not already been said so as many possibilties are raised as possible, I may be wrong, but I think generally it's more a case of feelings being hidden than not there at all.


Sometimes lists can be helpful, maybe add to it as you consider and come across more ideas:
1 ESFP treated you unfairly, cruelly, underhandedly
2 She's reated in a cold way before and after an attempted suicide
3 It's true that no one's perfect; maybe not reacting in the perfect way was a genuine human blunder
4 Or maybe it was really evil - if evil, why evil? What's causing her to be so twisted?
5 If not evil, to what extent should you show her kindness?
6 The other friend - complicated female drama :confused: It's unproductive to reduce a suicide attemt down to drama and attention seeking behaviour. I'm with snail on this one, destructive behaviour while attention seeking and possibly drama queenish do need to be addressed. You've got to be in a pretty dark/unhealthy place to need that kind of attention, whether or not getting it is a good thing in response to such a situation.

If that makes any sense. Two cents. Hope you're doing okay/do okay soon.

Also, communication/honesty is always good at the end of the day if you ask me, though getting those things in return can be hard =/. I guess you sort've said it, this all kind of wasn't helped by a lack of communication. Even if it's painful, maybe being brutally honest with everyone together could lead to a happier future? All you really have is the truth. *Cheese*
 

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Aideen, do you think everyone in this story is out of the closet that should be? You don't need to answer me here. It's just something to think about. I can't help but feeling like something might held over someone's head. Or like someone might feel as if something is being held over their head.
 
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There are a lot of mixed messages about all of these people that you mention. You claim that the ESFP has this good side, but you also mention that she's treated you like shit. I would bring up these things that have hurt you with her at some point and tell her that you feel like she doesn't really care sometimes. She's going to tell you that your being silly and that she does care about you but you should stress that while she says such things, her actions speak louder to you than her words. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences on other people, and if she refuses to then you should make the transition into cutting her out.

Its easy for ESFP to go on living without a worry of how they are acting if there are no consequences.
This. (The one I highlighted in bold)

My cynical N picks up that certain people might be more manipulative than you think and they might be hiding something. I just sense too many underlying layers of mixed messages, sorry :confused:
 

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This might be a little cruel and irrelevant btw....but...


Point: Eddie tried a faked suicide attempt to get Carlos back
 

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I find it a little odd, though, that the ESFP, who wasn't close to this person and indeed had just been treated badly by her, was supposed to notice the genuine suicide threat within the passive-aggressive accusations hurled at her - when the closer friends and family, who genuinely knew the ESTJ, are totally off the hook there in noticing anything at all was wrong from all they knew of her - and indeed she had, from your description, been acting down in other ways. It almost sounds like the ESFP's a bit of a target in others' guilt complexes - for everyone tends to feel guilt in the face of a suicide attempt and cannot always deal right away.

None of them sound like particularly stand-up people, tbh.
 
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I never said the ESFP was a good person, she's usually the first person to be there if someone so much as frowns I said (but i usually think this a public image), I said I didn't expect her to be this bad which is why I was dumb founded.

She's been malicious previously, a little cold but I didn't know she'd be like this, what I think this is (but I'm seeing it from both sides thanks to you guys). The thing is though, if she knew it was my cousin wouldn't she act a little better? We've learned what to do about suicidal situations. In my school we learned a motto "if someone you knew was having a heart attack would you help them? What if they were suicidal?"

Talon, I'm adopted by my current parents. I'm extremely close to the cousins in this family but the ESTJ is a cousin of my real family. And what are you two trying to say exactly? And about me? I'm not lying, I'm not trying to convince you anything or that my view is right. Please don't post videos related to desperate fucking housewives. That's meant to be filled with drama, it's not real. This is.

Pink, which person are you referring to? The ESFP? I might be wrong, but this might be what you think: let's say they do have something against her, I don't know Jojo that well, she doesn't seem to be a bad person but let's say she does have something related to the friend I think it might be then she could have used the unhealthy ESTJ as a vessel to make the ESFP look bad.

Lirulin, that's the thing, around us she was moping around, not talking much, getting angry easily but then her family said those things, which meant she was acting normally at home. That is a little odd.

I haven't any more information on any of this, I only know the ESTJ is feeling better, I was in the hospital all day yesterday. I talked to Jojo and Jojo said something like the ESTJ may've deleted some messages, she didn't see the messages that weren't deleted as something that weren't a indication of her suicide.

I returned the phone to her family. She didn't appear to be talking to any friends about anything private, meaning yes, she really might have deleted messages. What this says is either she saw this as a way of putting the blame onto the ESFP and no-one else or she just didn't consider the messages that way.The first possibility seems more probable.
 

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If somebody is dumb enough to commit suicide, let them. We don't need people like that in our society. The world is overpopulated as it is. You can call me a bitch, I don't care. But healthy people don't need to waste their time talking people out of committing suicide. It's their choice. Girls are dramatic as hell. If you're worried about her, send her to the psychiatric ward.
Good thing you're not a doctor. Humans by nature care about other humans.. you're not rational.
 

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Talon, I'm adopted by my current parents. I'm extremely close to the cousins in this family but the ESTJ is a cousin of my real family. And what are you two trying to say exactly? And about me? I'm not lying, I'm not trying to convince you anything or that my view is right. Please don't post videos related to desperate fucking housewives. That's meant to be filled with drama, it's not real. This is.
I wasn't trying to say anything about you I don't particularly agree with the video that was posted because im not very cynical. I didn't know you were extremly close to this cousin, and I shouldn't have assumed that you weren't. I just didn't have all the facts right and I mis interpreted your relationship with her

I never knew this part of my family well, she is a bit of a joker but I believed her, what reason did I have not to?
This is what threw me off because i thought it meant that you didn't know her very well.

If you are close to your cousin then I am happy for you. I hope everything turns out okay and hopefully gets resolved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
I wasn't trying to say anything about you I don't particularly agree with the video that was posted because im not very cynical. I didn't know you were extremly close to this cousin, and I shouldn't have assumed that you weren't. I just didn't have all the facts right and I mis interpreted your relationship with her



This is what threw me off because i thought it meant that you didn't know her very well.

If you are close to your cousin then I am happy for you. I hope everything turns out okay and hopefully gets resolved.
I'm not close to her lol.
 

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If somebody is dumb enough to commit suicide, let them. We don't need people like that in our society. The world is overpopulated as it is. You can call me a bitch, I don't care. But healthy people don't need to waste their time talking people out of committing suicide. It's their choice. Girls are dramatic as hell. If you're worried about her, send her to the psychiatric ward.
i think that's an awful thing to say.
i don't think suicide for the most part is a matter of healthy and unhealthy but a matter of invulnerable and vulnerable.
we all get vulnerable, most people react in some sort of self destructive manner (drinking, drugs, suicide etc.) but they can get out of that mindset, they aren't doomed to stay vulnerable forever .
also i don't think suicide is always an attempt to grab attention, some people do it in the hopes of ceasing to exist and be forgotten by everyone they ever knew.
saying "unhealthy" people might as well commit suicide is no better than saying the military should go out and rid the land of "unhealthy" people like a holocaust .
 

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Wow....this is one screwed up situation.

Initial reaction: The ESFP sure seems cold, but maybe she's feeling overwhelmed.
Reaction upon learning about the real reason behind this: Jojo is definitely the manipulator here.
Reaction upon learning what the ESFP has done to you: @[email protected] Maybe Jojo wasn't lying.

Conclusion: I would talk to the ESTJ cousin, the ESFP, and Jojo in order to get as much information as possible. Now this just may be a hunch, but I think Jojo may be someone who genuinely likes you:

assbiscuits said:
Maybe I should talk to Jojo and get more insight into all this, she doesn't like any of my friends and she won't tell me why. Of course, I never told her I didn't like my friends either.
I think she may have sensed that your friends weren't exactly the best company for you to have. However, she didn't say anything because she didn't want to hurt your feelings. That's just my guess.
 
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