Surviving med/law school as an ENFP

3221 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by LibertyPrime, Dec 13, 2014

shedreamt

Discussion Starter · Dec 7, 2014

For you guys who've been through the meat grinder that is professional school, I'm curious about the following questions:

1) Did you change up your study habits to accommodate all the info you had to study in such a short time frame?

2) Did you use a special planner book or app to organize your daily schedule? If so, what did you use?

4) Could you post a sample daily and weekly schedule, if you used such a thing?

5) Did you have a social/dating life, or did you find it too emotionally distracting?

6) Did you gain weight due to stress eating? :tongue:

And now, call outs: @Olmed3011, @Zster, @Paradox1987, @Serenitylala

Please feel free to contribute, anyone else! :happy:

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Paradox1987

· #2 · Dec 7, 2014

shedreamt said:
For you guys who've been through the meat grinder that is professional school, I'm curious about the following questions:

1) Did you change up your study habits to accommodate all the info you had to study in such a short time frame?

Erm. Yes and no. In the UK, there's a difference between academic law school and professional law school. During my undergraduate studies I studied for my LLB. The jump from A-Level studies to LLB studies aged 18 was intense. Uni studies are hard to understand, no one chases you for essays, attendance or studying. Do, or do not, and of your own damn initiative to boot! So I took more responsibility after failing my mid-terms. Get your reading done. I ensured I did the reading in subjects I found boring first. My notes clearest in these modules, and that I engaged with them most. I also followed a system of readings.

Why has the tutor asked these questions?
How does the passage answer them?
To what extent? Etc.

I looked at exam papers early on, identified important topics and knew them thoroughly for exam purposes and picked as many research paper options as possible.

Bar School isn't hard. The workload is INSANE. I learned how to function off 3 hours a night. For court (even fake court) know your papers. Tab them properly and highlight every key strength and weakness of your argument. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. That is all.

As for my LLM and PhD. These were research heavy and I was in my element. So juggling work and research was second nature by then.

2) Did you use a special planner book or app to organize your daily schedule? If so, what did you use?

Just an appointment book with deadlines listed in it. Schedules? Not so much.

4) Could you post a sample daily and weekly schedule, if you used such a thing?

E.g. 13 May:

0900 - Croydon Magistrates' Court - 1st app. - crime unknown.
1400 - Hunt J - reserved judgment. Verdict. CALL CLERKS.
1800 - Dinner @ Inner Temple - Stark J in attendance.
2359 - DEADLINE: Gender, Sexuality and Criminal Justice @ TurnItIn.

5) Did you have a social/dating life, or did you find it too emotionally distracting?

Yes. Social life mostly with fellow Bar School attendees. They all have similarly punishing days and so there's a great camaraderie. Plus my uni friends are the best. I made time for them for sanity's sake and vice versa. I also dated around. But more FWBs than dates per se during this period. It was just simpler that way. Fewer arguments about my lack of spare time that way.

6) Did you gain weight due to stress eating?

No. I lost weight from quick lunches at my desk. Excess coffee intake, and I smoked like a chimney from the stress in Bar School. Finding better coping strategies in the professional world. Comfort eating is more a breakup/why am I so unloved?! habit for me hahahaha.

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skalea

· #3 · Dec 7, 2014

Last year of law school, let's try and answer this :

1. Yes, I definitely had to change how I operated, back in HS I didn't do anything, moving into Uni the first grade I got was 02/20.

Basically, I understood that I wouldn't go far if I didn't study more. I knew I wouldn't be able to learn all that rubbish if I didn't fool myself into believing it might be interesting. So instead of just hammering stuff inside my brain I read about the different dynamics going on in the french law scene, talked to my teachers a lot more, met a few specialists and got the chance to work with actual pros. Thanks to that I developped my own opinions and was able to give critacal analysis, which carried me so far.

2. Aside from the lessons we had, never. My own head has always been enough.

4. We have around 8 hours a week and aside from that it's all how we want to handle it.

5. I was with someone for 4 years (out of 5), in all honesty I did sacrifice some nights in order to spend week ends with her and maintain my grades. Aside from that we had plenty of gatherings, uni usually doesn't smother your social life (again it did cost me some nights though !).

6. Nah, I'm that guy who eats healthy and runs, stress eating isn't my thing.

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shedreamt

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 9, 2014 (Edited)

Paradox1987 said:
Erm. Yes and no. In the UK, there's a difference between academic law school and professional law school. During my undergraduate studies I studied for my LLB. The jump from A-Level studies to LLB studies aged 18 was intense. Uni studies are hard to understand, no one chases you for essays, attendance or studying. Do, or do not, and of your own damn initiative to boot! So I took more responsibility after failing my mid-terms. Get your reading done. I ensured I did the reading in subjects I found boring first. My notes clearest in these modules, and that I engaged with them most. I also followed a system of readings.

Why has the tutor asked these questions?
How does the passage answer them?
To what extent? Etc.

I looked at exam papers early on, identified important topics and knew them thoroughly for exam purposes and picked as many research paper options as possible.

Bar School isn't hard. The workload is INSANE. I learned how to function off 3 hours a night. For court (even fake court) know your papers. Tab them properly and highlight every key strength and weakness of your argument. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. That is all.

As for my LLM and PhD. These were research heavy and I was in my element. So juggling work and research was second nature by then.

Just an appointment book with deadlines listed in it. Schedules? Not so much.

E.g. 13 May:

0900 - Croydon Magistrates' Court - 1st app. - crime unknown.
1400 - Hunt J - reserved judgment. Verdict. CALL CLERKS.
1800 - Dinner @ Inner Temple - Stark J in attendance.
2359 - DEADLINE: Gender, Sexuality and Criminal Justice @ TurnItIn.

Yes. Social life mostly with fellow Bar School attendees. They all have similarly punishing days and so there's a great camaraderie. Plus my uni friends are the best. I made time for them for sanity's sake and vice versa. I also dated around. But more FWBs than dates per se during this period. It was just simpler that way. Fewer arguments about my lack of spare time that way.

No. I lost weight from quick lunches at my desk. Excess coffee intake, and I smoked like a chimney from the stress in Bar School. Finding better coping strategies in the professional world. Comfort eating is more a breakup/why am I so unloved?! habit for me hahahaha.

I can totally relate to the experience you had switching from high school to uni. It seems like many ENFPs have that these experiences. We coast through high school and get smacked upside the head by the work load and sustained effort required to succeed at the college level!

Thanks for the tip about using a planner. If I can't figure out how to use this one of these silly iphone apps (!), I'll just use the old paper planner method.

I imagine FWBs is easier for ENFP guys to handle, hmm... :happy:

I appreciate you sharing your feedback. Law school, wow. Sounds so brutal! Very cool that you survived and are thriving in your chosen profession.

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shedreamt

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 9, 2014

skalea said:
Last year of law school, let's try and answer this :

1. Yes, I definitely had to change how I operated, back in HS I didn't do anything, moving into Uni the first grade I got was 02/20.

Basically, I understood that I wouldn't go far if I didn't study more. I knew I wouldn't be able to learn all that rubbish if I didn't fool myself into believing it might be interesting. So instead of just hammering stuff inside my brain I read about the different dynamics going on in the french law scene, talked to my teachers a lot more, met a few specialists and got the chance to work with actual pros. Thanks to that I developped my own opinions and was able to give critacal analysis, which carried me so far.

2. Aside from the lessons we had, never. My own head has always been enough.

4. We have around 8 hours a week and aside from that it's all how we want to handle it.

5. I was with someone for 4 years (out of 5), in all honesty I did sacrifice some nights in order to spend week ends with her and maintain my grades. Aside from that we had plenty of gatherings, uni usually doesn't smother your social life (again it did cost me some nights though !).

6. Nah, I'm that guy who eats healthy and runs, stress eating isn't my thing.

Again with the rude awakening at uni! That's so relatable it's not even funny. You definitely learn how not to study from failing a couple of tests.

Charting your own course through learning makes such a difference. And getting that experience out in the field, in the real world... make a huge difference! From what I understand the profs at my prospective school have an open door policy, and we get to work in the clinic from the very first week. Both of those aspects of the learning experience were huge draws. We ENFPs need to be out there applying our knowledge in the real world it seems.

It's nice to hear that you were able to juggle a long term relationship and school. I'm fearful that it'll be a big emotional distraction, but maybe being able to shut off your emotions to study will be easier now that I'm older.

How do you not get bored out of your mind running? Music?

Any of you former med students or current med students care to weigh in? Pretty please! :crazy:

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skalea

· #6 · Dec 9, 2014

Music indeed, I never run without it. I don't run for long though, I go for a 20 min fast run, no jogging, the goal is to get myself exhausted fast.

Usually even if I don't feel like running, I start listening to music I like, I get pumped up and go "hell, let's go for a run !". In and out and it's done (that's what she said). Honestly at first it's hard but once it becomes a habit you realise it does affect both your health and your mind. At least that's how I feel about it.

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Zster

· #7 · Dec 10, 2014

1) Did you change up your study habits to accommodate all the info you had to study in such a short time frame?

Not really. I still procrastinated, largely because I was working six nights per week. The cramming was fairly similar to what I'd done in undergrad.

2) Did you use a special planner book or app to organize your daily schedule? If so, what did you use?

I bought highlighters of many colors and color coded my notes by species (vet school). I then reviewed fairly casually before exams. During the test, if I was not sure of an answer, I would go with my gut, trusting some part of my brain might subconsciously recall what color that note was. Sounds nuts, but it tended to work more than it failed. I got the degree and recall much of what I was taught.

4) Could you post a sample daily and weekly schedule, if you used such a thing?

Sure. In class (22 credit hours) from 7:30AM until 5:30PM, then report to work most nights (seldom Sundays) around 7 or 8PM, work until 11PM or 1AM on weekends.

5) Did you have a social/dating life, or did you find it too emotionally distracting?

I dated at work and ended up marrying in the middle of sophomore year. Work was my social life. I loved it! I tended to be apart from my vet classmates, though.

6) Did you gain weight due to stress eating?

No. I tend to lose my appetite with stress, plus, I never gained extra weight until I hit thirty.

The best thing I did to get through vet school was to attend all classes myself and take my own notes. Simply doing that anchored most of the info into my brain. I would focus my reviews on the few areas that I felt weak on, especially equine leg anatomy.

Vet school was not so hard as it was intensely interesting. The hard part was the sheer volume. (Eight subjects per term times five species). I could not afford to fall behind at all, or I'd have been toast.

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LibertyPrime

· #8 · Dec 11, 2014 (Edited)

@shedreamt

o.o I'm going to impart some Te wisdom I learned (maybe a bit late) ^^; but I did.

People can only actively pay attention & effectively study for around 15 to 30 minutes MAX at a time (scientifically proven). Any more then that and gaps appear in memory & attention span.

The workaround for this is the following:

1. Establish a place for study, where you do it regularly (not in bed, ppl fall asleep in bed). It should be a quiet place where you can concentrate.

2. Study for only 15-30 minutes max with about 5 to 10 minutes of break time in between sessions doing something else that is fun. (example mobile phone games or music). You can keep your effective study time up like this for hours, thou its not recommended to pull 6 hour study sessions.

3. Don't drink alcohol, do drugs or eat during study time, do it after.

4. Never try to memorize, always look at context & meaning, connect information together into a system intuitively.

5. Sleep 6-8 hours a day & eat well, get some sunshine.

6. Party hard on weekends & never pull long 6 hour study sessions without breaks. That way you only do 30 minutes of studying and 5.3 hours of WASTED TIME.

7. Study throughout the week NOT LAST MINUTE or you will waste effort & time. (look at point 6)

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Serenitylala

· #9 · Dec 12, 2014

shedreamt said:
For you guys who've been through the meat grinder that is professional school, I'm curious about the following questions:

1) Did you change up your study habits to accommodate all the info you had to study in such a short time frame?

2) Did you use a special planner book or app to organize your daily schedule? If so, what did you use?

4) Could you post a sample daily and weekly schedule, if you used such a thing?

5) Did you have a social/dating life, or did you find it too emotionally distracting?

6) Did you gain weight due to stress eating? :tongue:

And now, call outs: @Olmed3011, @Zster, @Paradox1987, @Serenitylala

Please feel free to contribute, anyone else! :happy:

Well... First off, I have to say that medical school and residency were pure hell.

Did I have to change the way I studied? Yeah. I had to actually study. I never really had to study before. So I just had to become more determined and want to do the work.

Schedule or planner? Nope. Not at all. I just studied what I needed to when I felt like it.

Social or dating life? I don't consider anything as distractions. I go where the wind and fate takes me. But I did get tired a lot, so I really didn't want to go out after a long day of school or work. Medicine is draining.

Stress eating? Yeah. I did that but I'm not at all fat. I just chewed down on apples.

Overall, I had to lose a lot of my bubbly, outgoing, sporadic nature, and fight the uphill battle against NJs.

I just had to learn to put play behind work and make work play. I enjoy medicine and there are many days that I feel like I haven't worked at all because I enjoy taking care of people so much.

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Mario7

· #10 · Dec 13, 2014

FreeBeer said:
@shedreamt

o.o I'm going to impart some Te wisdom I learned (maybe a bit late) ^^; but I did.

People can only actively pay attention & effectively study for around 15 to 30 minutes MAX at a time (scientifically proven). Any more then that and gaps appear in memory & attention span.

The workaround for this is the following:

1. Establish a place for study, where you do it regularly (not in bed, ppl fall asleep in bed). It should be a quiet place where you can concentrate.

2. Study for only 15-30 minutes max with about 5 to 10 minutes of break time in between sessions doing something else that is fun. (example mobile phone games or music). You can keep your effective study time up like this for hours, thou its not recommended to pull 6 hour study sessions.

3. Don't drink alcohol, do drugs or eat during study time, do it after.

4. Never try to memorize, always look at context & meaning, connect information together into a system intuitively.

5. Sleep 6-8 hours a day & eat well, get some sunshine.

6. Party hard on weekends & never pull long 6 hour study sessions without breaks. That way you only do 30 minutes of studying and 5.3 hours of WASTED TIME.

7. Study throughout the week NOT LAST MINUTE or you will waste effort & time. (look at point 6)

I'm so sorry, but I have to disagree.

When you're not able to concentrate, it usually means NOT that your brain isn't capable to receive any more information.
The brain itself is not exhaustible, unless you're really tired, let's say because of a huge lack of sleep. It's more a psychological thing.

Personally i find it very difficult to get into this mindset being fully concentraed. In my case this usually happens after 15 till 30minutes. At that point, I really dont want to take an interruption. Because when I take a pause, I need another 15 or 30minutes until I'm fully concentrated.

Have you ever taken part in a psychological study itself? - If not, I can really recommend it to you. The psychologists are constantly looking for people who participate for a few bucks on something. I did it a few tiems (because I am basically for science), and it always runs similar. When the question "How long is concentration possible?" appears, it works like this:
A long series of numbers will be shown to you for 3 seconds, then you have 10 seconds time to remember as much numbers. Or the same with words. And then 45 minutes piece or so.

In our assumed study, the psychologists would then see, that after 25 minutes the students remember instead of 10 numbers only 7. So they go to a conference and say "The concentration can significantly suffer after 25 minutes". Aaaand then comes the big applause. (Incidentally, this is one reason why statistical and experimental theses have a fundamentally different reputation: The statistical science can interpret things according to their own subjective point of view, the experimental science gets findings based on "solid objective facts").

So, is medicine/law school like memorizing a series of numbers? Did the participants had a real interest in all the figures after 25 minutes, as well as in the beginning? Or was there probably sometimes an underlying question "How long does this shit go? WHEN I GET MY MONEY ?!?"

Soooo, here is my own explanation: Concentration and motivation are two different things. Nobody breaks off because he only can remember 7 facts instead of 10. If a student really wants to quit learning, then generally because the following reasons:

1) Sitting is uncomfortable, the physical limits are reached. (Exercise helps a lot to eliminate this point)
2) Excessive demands. This is a typical and frequent breaking off reason, mainly for beginners. You do not really know if you come forward. You feel that learning does not work. That's why you go home - and bang it's there, the bad conscience. You're a victim to the excessive demand.
3) Laziness or "fast comfort": This is the most common reason for people who actually dominate the learning. Yes, learning IS exhausting. It's not always fun. (I think this comes from cuddly education which is nice in kindergarten, but for university not usable). And there is always something, that you would prefer at this moment. Everyone has them, the temptations of distraction and own laziness. The more you give in to them, the more they come to mind. They bring "quick comfort": Instant leisure. But the fast comfort is not good comfort.

I hope it wasn't to harsh, please don't feel offended.

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LibertyPrime

· #11 · Dec 13, 2014

Mario7 said:
I'm so sorry, but I have to disagree.

When you're not able to concentrate, it usually means NOT that your brain isn't capable to receive any more information.
The brain itself is not exhaustible, unless you're really tired, let's say because of a huge lack of sleep. It's more a psychological thing.

Personally i find it very difficult to get into this mindset being fully concentraed. In my case this usually happens after 15 till 30minutes. At that point, I really dont want to take an interruption. Because when I take a pause, I need another 15 or 30minutes until I'm fully concentrated.

Have you ever taken part in a psychological study itself? - If not, I can really recommend it to you. The psychologists are constantly looking for people who participate for a few bucks on something. I did it a few tiems (because I am basically for science), and it always runs similar. When the question "How long is concentration possible?" appears, it works like this:
A long series of numbers will be shown to you for 3 seconds, then you have 10 seconds time to remember as much numbers. Or the same with words. And then 45 minutes piece or so.

In our assumed study, the psychologists would then see, that after 25 minutes the students remember instead of 10 numbers only 7. So they go to a conference and say "The concentration can significantly suffer after 25 minutes". Aaaand then comes the big applause. (Incidentally, this is one reason why statistical and experimental theses have a fundamentally different reputation: The statistical science can interpret things according to their own subjective point of view, the experimental science gets findings based on "solid objective facts").

So, is medicine/law school like memorizing a series of numbers? Did the participants had a real interest in all the figures after 25 minutes, as well as in the beginning? Or was there probably sometimes an underlying question "How long does this shit go? WHEN I GET MY MONEY ?!?"

Soooo, here is my own explanation: Concentration and motivation are two different things. Nobody breaks off because he only can remember 7 facts instead of 10. If a student really wants to quit learning, then generally because the following reasons:

1) Sitting is uncomfortable, the physical limits are reached. (Exercise helps a lot to eliminate this point)
2) Excessive demands. This is a typical and frequent breaking off reason, mainly for beginners. You do not really know if you come forward. You feel that learning does not work. That's why you go home - and bang it's there, the bad conscience. You're a victim to the excessive demand.
3) Laziness or "fast comfort": This is the most common reason for people who actually dominate the learning. Yes, learning IS exhausting. It's not always fun. (I think this comes from cuddly education which is nice in kindergarten, but for university not usable). And there is always something, that you would prefer at this moment. Everyone has them, the temptations of distraction and own laziness. The more you give in to them, the more they come to mind. They bring "quick comfort": Instant leisure. But the fast comfort is not good comfort.

I hope it wasn't to harsh, please don't feel offended.

o.o hmm, I understand. I wasn't really talking only out of personal experience thou. I'm mainly following research done that suggests the above to be a more efficient way of learning, which has worked for me & my ESTP brother since we began applying it:

I merely thought this would be a good opportunity to share it with others who might need the information. In the end you can try it or disagree & not, everyone makes their own choices & thinks for themselves. I merely put the information out there.

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