[ENTrePreneur]

So, I guess I just want to better understand how people think, and I don't want to go all over the internet for vagueness by experts.

Contradictions are fine. Just talk about yourself..(you do enjoy that, right). How do you think, feel? What annoys you, what do you enjoy?

 

[lenabelle]

There is a lot that has been already said about this here. I suggest going through some of the old threads. We would be happy to answer more specific questions though.

 

[KeepingItClassy]

Yep, I agree completely with lenabelle.
There's a lot of good lit. already out there and available, but some of it will vary based on the ESFJ's numbers, i.e. how much they lean to one degree or another.

If you come up with any type specific questions though, fire away . Butttttttttt seeing as you asked what I enjoy, and I'd feel incomplete to not answer your question in some way. Pancakes... nice fluffy pancakes

 

[rd93]

sometimes i feel like everyone and no one at the same time. i never fit in anywhere, nothing fits into me, and there's a constant mask on my 'self' that changes indefinitely. i love people but also dont connect with anyone while innately yearning to. i want a purpose but cant seem to achieve specificity. i want nothing this world has to offer but i still find myself 'wanting'. i like to try on suits and personas and constantly act as something new, but i suspect im just trying to find something that fits. hmm i dont know if thats what you wanted, a stream of consciousness

 

[Zombie Devil Duckie]

I think part of being an ESFJ is being in control of your natural gifts and using them in a positive way rather than in a negative way, and I think that's why poorly functioning ESFJ's get so far under people's skin.

Case in point, I just stopped myself from doing something pretty stupid on another forum, lol. Sometimes discretion is a good skill to remember to practice.

Even over the internet, we get a feeling for other people and often know the wrong words to say to hurt someone.

:kitteh:


-ZDD

 

[Doc Dangerstein]

... given this thread was started by one of our own

I was watching an ESFJ interaction video one night, and, felt myself doubting my type. In listening to speaker describe Fe, the need to relate with other people, etc. I felt I was listening to my unconscious. They were things I very much relate to but keep in the background. I don't repress or deny them, they're just not the forefront of my consciousness.

I opened up another tab in my browser and had to research ESFJ only to remind myself that we share identical functions. Do you ever feel there's an ENTP side just hanging out, doing its thing beneath the surface?

 

[rd93]

... given this thread was started by one of our own

I was watching an ESFJ interaction video one night, and, felt myself doubting my type. In listening to speaker describe Fe, the need to relate with other people, etc. I felt I was listening to my unconscious. They were things I very much relate to but keep in the background. I don't repress or deny them, they're just not the forefront of my consciousness.

I opened up another tab in my browser and had to research ESFJ only to remind myself that we share identical functions. Do you ever feel there's an ENTP side just hanging out, doing its thing beneath the surface?

A very close friend is an ENTP and we're like the same person inversely. Outwardly very different, but inwardly we're painted with the same colors. This connection is at times stronger with INTPs.

 

[rd93]

Also do you have the video link

 

[Doc Dangerstein]

... strangely enough; I don't know any ISFJs other then my studio teacher in university. She taught me piano, was a wonderful teacher albeit too smothering for my likings. I never understood her need to work out every minute detail whereas she never understood my daredevil stunts. In plain English, improvisation and changing repertoire at the last minute. I think I may have been her only student that year who pushed for an intellectual approach versus a tactile.

Socially, we got along great. Working together; if I understood the purpose of doing something a certain way, how it works and why it is so I had no problem going along with her ideas. She enjoyed familiar works; I always wanted to play that cool piece that's collecting dust in the library.

Going back a couple of posts, I think Fe will always be looking for acceptance. When I was younger I felt the urge to constantly please people; somehow I had this naive thought that this might win them over. I would also be very creative in my ways of doing so, which, in reality left me quite gullible. I spoke to a friend recently about feeling out of place with where I word and my relationships and he told me that things get better once you find your own niche. I still get taken when I'm not thinking but it's only about the little things.

... so, I found the video. It turn out to be one of yours.

 

 

[rd93]

... strangely enough; I don't know any ISFJs other then my studio teacher in university. She taught me piano, was a wonderful teacher albeit too smothering for my likings. I never understood her need to work out every minute detail whereas she never understood my daredevil stunts. In plain English, improvisation and changing repertoire at the last minute. I think I may have been her only student that year who pushed for an intellectual approach versus a tactile.

Socially, we got along great. Working together; if I understood the purpose of doing something a certain way, how it works and why it is so I had no problem going along with her ideas. She enjoyed familiar works; I always wanted to play that cool piece that's collecting dust in the library.

Going back a couple of posts, I think Fe will always be looking for acceptance. When I was younger I felt the urge to constantly please people; somehow I had this naive thought that this might win them over. I would also be very creative in my ways of doing so, which, in reality left me quite gullible. I spoke to a friend recently about feeling out of place with where I word and my relationships and he told me that things get better once you find your own niche. I still get taken when I'm not thinking but it's only about the little things.

... so, I found the video. It turn out to be one of yours.

 

I had a suspicion lol not many ESFJs on youtube.

It seems like perceiving dominant types have more difficulty getting along with opposites. I can only seem to relate this to perceiving being irrational and therein harder to consciously control, so developing inferiors is more difficult for IxxJs and ExxPs. With ENTPs and ISFJs I've known, there's usually conflict between Ne/Si in dominant positions. but after prolonged exposure (given that they're receptive), they start to rub off on each other.

It might just be easier for me to connect with INTPs because I can consciously develop and manipulate Ti to a much greater extent than Ne. but the extroversion and stronger Fe in my ENTP friend are aspects that make her more outwardly relatable. You two getting along socially is probably the Fe/Ti in close positions interacting. I wonder what it would actually be like to see a long standing marriage in this pairing...

 

[petitpèlerin]

My good ESFJ friend is an awesome girl and it took me ages to type her because she's so far from the rotten stereotypes of you all. She enjoys being with people but seems to prefer more intimate gatherings and one-on-ones to large groups, and she often prefers to be alone with a good novel. She's an excellent friend, and even more so because she draws no attention to herself for the things she does. She listens more than she talks, she's very patient and understanding, very gentle at breaking difficult things to people. She has very big feelings. She just experiences the personal side of life very intensely, and trusts her feelings in order to make decisions.

It's always been very important to her to work for a cause that she believes in. After college she struggled tremendously to figure out how to find a job where she could make a kind of difference in the world that she wanted to make, something that was in line with her values. She couldn't bear the thought of doing anything else. (Now she coordinates a farmers market and she loves it.)

 

[petitpèlerin]

I was watching an ESFJ interaction video one night, and, felt myself doubting my type. In listening to speaker describe Fe, the need to relate with other people, etc. I felt I was listening to my unconscious. They were things I very much relate to but keep in the background. I don't repress or deny them, they're just not the forefront of my consciousness.

I opened up another tab in my browser and had to research ESFJ only to remind myself that we share identical functions. Do you ever feel there's an ENTP side just hanging out, doing its thing beneath the surface?

This is exactly how I feel about my "inner" type: INFJ. I even mistyped as one for a long time, at first. I think these "inner type" pairs can learn a lot from each other, especially those who are a bit more mature and seeking personal development.

 

[Doc Dangerstein]

I'm curious, petitpelerin, what is meant by cause to believe in. I don't find it necessary for my work to make a difference, but, I do feel it's important to work with great people. Working at a donut shop can be satisfying when you have good clients and relate with your coworkers. I would find it awkward if I feel the company is doing something unethical and might drive me to look for other work. Does she actively seek out positions where should make that difference?

I'm more driven in finding something that fascinates; people are also important but the need to express myself socially, not as much. Could this be the intensity of Fe, primary vs. tertiary?

I could write pages on how I relate with Si; sometimes it's wonderful other times it's hopeless and catastrophic. If I'm interested in something my memory is impeccable; although you might find me describing a concept, person or an event without actually remembering the name. If I'm probed to give details about something I always second guess myself. This is why I don't do well with instructions. Unless I understand the reasoning behind something I will continue to improvise my own solutions.

Sometimes I do enjoy breaking petty conventions; just to get under people's skin. My memories are episodic, never sequential. I envy people who remember events as they happened in order. Even in literature I find myself looking back to certain things. I could never read fantasy for this particular reason. Mind you; when I read articles on dream interpretation, symbolic poetry it all makes sense.

Another key difference I noticed is debates; I found that Si/Ne look for possibilities within the established positions of the argument. This is evident when I'm listening to friends debate political issues; I might interject by saying that both arguments are horrible because they're not considering certain factors of influence and we would have to redefine the debate altogether.

 

[petitpèlerin]

I'm curious, petitpelerin, what is meant by cause to believe in. I don't find it necessary for my work to make a difference, but, I do feel it's important to work with great people. Working at a donut shop can be satisfying when you have good clients and relate with your coworkers. I would find it awkward if I feel the company is doing something unethical and might drive me to look for other work. Does she actively seek out positions where should make that difference?

I would be satisfied working at a donut shop if I enjoyed the process of making donuts and ringing people up, if I liked the donuts (otherwise I'd apply at the competitor's shop who makes better donuts), and if the owners were decent people I respected.

My friend would probably enjoy working in a donut shop if they were homemade donuts made from grains grown on a local farm, and she could have contact with the farmers, and everybody in between, and decorate the shop very smartly, and she would love nothing more than making good fresh coffee every morning and chatting with the customers. And those are all the reasons why she loves her farmers market.

 

[Doc Dangerstein]

I was thinking metaphysical donuts. Where the donuts can manifest themselves as cotton t-shirts waiting to be folded, placed on display and sold at your local Buy-A-Rag. If I enjoy the company of my coworkers and the task is not particularly annoying I'm happy. There's no reason for work to define who I am as a person; I mean I could read all the Baudelaire I want, play music, etc. on my own time. I do need variety; having something that consumes all my waking thought would be utter hell. That said; I'd totally hang out at your friend's hypothetical shop.

I am curious to how Si works to compliment Fe. Is it remembering what a person is like, how a certain group operates, what they represent with themselves and going from there?

 

[rd93]

It gathers data from whats in front of it, crams it into overfilled storage space, and then uses all of it to compare what has already been learned to what the user comes face to face with. Especially strong with social data, like the inconsistencies in an emotional state of a person, or when someone is noticeably less enthusiastic about seeing you than they were last week. Then to figure out why Ne tries to make connections between all available sources that could explain said person's change of character.

It also uses the past data to predict the outcome of the future, and with Fe this manifests itself a lot in trying to foresee anything bad before it happens with people; as Fe can tell what a person will like and dislike easily, and how to work them favorably. It will remember anything associated with Fe's observations, and even if it can't recall what it was exactly, something will just feel wrong. Like knowing when you shouldn't say something to someone because it's going to upset them, but not having any concrete idea why.