[Jewl]

Often when I'm studying cognitive functions, I find myself running around in circles trying to figure everything out. Better just ask when I'm feeling a bit confused. ^^'

Anyway... The questions I have are seen in the title. I can pretty much understand Ne, Fe, Fi, Se, and Si well enough (for now, at least). However, recently I've been thinking about Ti and Te. And Ni. They still confuse me a bit. I've honestly looked into all of this, but my brain still has a hard time wrapping around them.

Somebody mentioned when you know where something is going or what someone is going to say before they say it, that's Ni. I'm not entirely sure whether to believe that. I do that quite often, actually. Lots of people explain Ni in contrast with Ne, and how Ni is "slower". Which it isn't. Some things explain it as a "sudden realization" or something to that effect. It all just makes me more confused. x3 Because those alone don't really explain Ni to me.

Then there's Te and Ti. Quite honestly, the Thinking functions seem pretty alien to me. Te especially, the way it is described in most cases. There's always part of me that wants to recoil from it. People compare Ti to Fi, saying they're kind of similar. I'm not so sure about that.

Well, anyone willing to explain these/point me in a helpful direction? x3

 

[TAHTGUY]

Ti is similar to Fi in a way that they both are subjective functions, they hardly consider opinion of others, they make decisions on what's right/true by using subjective view and what makes sense to them.


Ti is introverted thought process where to understand things you have to understand things a level under that.

I see Te as the "alpha male" function, lol, it's all about organizing and dominating, I think that it's function that doesn't need to understand things at previous level and can just simply think things are right because somebody said so.

"The Earth is round." The Ti user will ask a lot of questions and try to understand why is it or isn't the Earth round. Te user probably will say "Ohh, okay." I think that Te users don't ask a lot of questions, they are people of action. Ti users get really frustrated when teachers leave a lot of blanks on subjects and try to skip them.

I GOD DAMN HATE MY PHYSICS TEACHER! HOW CAN SHE EVEN TEACH?! She's like ESTJ or ISTJ or smth and it's so annoying that she just tells us and expects us to believe and understand it all. I just can't, stuff doesn't stick in my head, I need to glue new information to already existing one for it to make sense. This is not Te hate, it's just crappy teacher hate, FU*K YOU ALL BAD TEACHERS, YOU ALL ARE KILLING YOUNG TALENTS, she should've had been educated on how to teach.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how, right now, I understand Ti and Te. Sorry for that Te rage.


Have a nice day.

 

[Kyrielle]

Ti judges whether or not something makes sense in an internal system. It wants to make order out of nonsense, and it wants everything to be organized, categorized, filed, and put in its place in that internal system. Ti likes to work with one thought at a time to it can "perfect" that thought before moving on to the next.

Te does the same exact thing, just to the outside world. So, Te wants everything to be organized, categorized, filed, and put in its place externally. It couldn't give a flying flip about the internal systems, it wants the outside world to make sense. However, unlike Ti, Te likes to focus on organizing many things at once. It wants to do everything as efficiently and quickly as possible and build systems as quickly as possible.

Ni and Ne are similarly mirrored. Ni seeks to build systems on the inside. It wants to connect the dots and create a vast network of understanding between all that is known to the user about a particular subject. Ni does not care about the outside world, it, instead, draws its data from every thought, feeling, and sensation the user has ever had. Ni creates something from the vast pool of information that dwells inside the mind (most often drawing from the unconscious parts). However, because Ni is drawing from so MUCH information internally, it tends to focus on one thought at a time.

The key phrase for Ni is often: "One from many." Many pieces of information are "congealed" into one singular thought. Ni is exclusive. It will filter out any information not useful to the singular thought.

For Ne, it is similarly reversed. Ne wants to make connections, too, but it wants to make lots of connections all at once from the outside world. Ne tends to explode outward and see all of the thoughts, feelings, and sensations that can be created by the subject. In this way, Ne can sometimes create ideas that are only just tangential to the subject at hand.

The key phrase for Ne is: "Many from one." Many thoughts and ideas are generated from one subject. Ne is inclusive. It will include any possible information generated from a single thought.

A good example of the difference between the two is this: At the start of a project, the best people to turn to for ideas are Ne users. The way Ne tends to explode forth with hundreds of possibilities is great for getting a project off the ground. However, as the project gets going and has established speed, Ni users are best at looking at this one subject and seeing what more could be done to develop the idea further. Ni likes to refine, Ne likes to discover.

 

[CounterPoint]

Here is how I understand it. Functions are basically life philosophies. Te/Ti/Fi etc all describe value systems, not skills or tools that we “use”.

People who value Te will value and judge information on the basis of external rationality, which is similar to the definition of “rational” used by economists. The decision that makes sense is the one that produces the most tangible benefit.

For instance, a Te user will not quit a job simply because they didn’t like it (Fi), at least not without having a safety net because the consequence would be negative (and the cost is measured in the real world, hence extraverted).

Ti on the other hand values and judges information based on incisive reasoning, usually based on how they interpret the situation at hand (hence subjective/introverted). They make decisions based on the technical and logical consequences inherent within the situation they are facing. If I do x, then y logically follows; I want y, so I will indeed perform x regardless of outside opinions.

Perception:
Ni = value shifting perspectives on their experiences to explore how things would be when viewed in a different context. An Ni user will distrust and devalue Se data (real time, as is information) because things are seldom as they seem (Ni).

Ne = The implication of x data says that we should be at y. Ne users will most likely focus on point y (where we SHOULD be). That is to say they value the future implications of information more than the data itself.

 

[Zero11]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how, right now, I understand Ti and Te. Sorry for that Te rage.

Have a nice day.

You are wrong :wink: this seems to be a Si - Te/Fe combined problem

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

Somebody mentioned when you know where something is going or what someone is going to say before they say it, that's Ni. I'm not entirely sure whether to believe that. I do that quite often, actually. Lots of people explain Ni in contrast with Ne, and how Ni is "slower". Which it isn't. Some things explain it as a "sudden realization" or something to that effect. It all just makes me more confused. x3 Because those alone don't really explain Ni to me.

This is probably just pattern recognition at the very least - not function related. It would depend on who you're talking to, how well you know them, etc. The N functions might make a person most interested in predicting stuff like this though, if they are N dominant, especially.

 

[TAHTGUY]

You are wrong :wink: this seems to be a Si - Te/Fe combined problem

Well that would make sense too.

 

[Kito]

I've always seen it this way:

Ti - Understanding logic just for use in daily life, and often doesn't consider outside views on said logic. Uses this logic to make decisions and also uses it to understand how to treat others.

Te - Similar to Ti, except it can be swayed by outside opinions and factors, and usually uses logic to reach a certain goal. If there's no point in understanding a piece of logic, then Te isn't concerned with it.

Ni - Changing perspective on something in order to see it in a different way. For example, when asked if the glass is half full or half empty, a Ni user might think "well it's actually just a stylized cup made out of transparent material, is it really a glass?". Ni is what helps you see the brighter or darker side of things, such as realising that garden work is a good opportunity for exercise. It also searches for meaning in things and can often foresee what's going to happen in the near or far future.

 

[NeedsNewNameNow]

Somebody mentioned when you know where something is going or what someone is going to say before they say it, that's Ni. I'm not entirely sure whether to believe that. I do that quite often, actually. Lots of people explain Ni in contrast with Ne, and how Ni is "slower". Which it isn't. Some things explain it as a "sudden realization" or something to that effect. It all just makes me more confused. x3 Because those alone don't really explain Ni to me.

No, those are poor explanations of Ni. Maybe they describe intuition in general. It is hard to explain the difference, it's much easier to point out where someone's using it, but I'll try.

Like most functions, Ne and Ni can annoy each other. If you present a concept to both. Ne might come up with ways to improve it or a new direction to take it in. Ni may deconstruct it and strip it bare. As an Ne user, I don't find this useful, it's like someone dumped my sandbox. I'm sure my approach annoys Ni, but I can't speak to how.

Then there's Te and Ti. Quite honestly, the Thinking functions seem pretty alien to me. Te especially, the way it is described in most cases. There's always part of me that wants to recoil from it. People compare Ti to Fi, saying they're kind of similar. I'm not so sure about that.

Te is better suited for planning, strategizing, organizing. It deals with consensus. (if 4 out of 5 dentists recommend X toothpaste, then that's the toothpaste I should be using). and rules. This is what makes it extroverted.
Ti is often suspicious of consensus, and doesn't like rules that don't make logical sense to it. It's poor at planning, but great at system designing and building. Present a new contraption to a Ti and Te user. The Ti user may want to figure out how it works, while the Te user might want to find ways it can be used.

 

[Jewl]

Thanks, guys! ^^ Still muddling through all this. Haha. ^^

@CounterPoint - Ah. Thank you. My brain definitely wants to make a similarity connection from Ti to Fi. I can see why people say they are similar, even though they are actually entirely different things. Fi and Ti want to make sense of things internally. In a basic sense, what do I think about this/feel about this. And Te wants to make sense of the outside world. @Kyrielle, thanks for that. I'm just trying to say things in my own words so I know I at least loosely understand it. If I can't put it into my own words, it means I'm still confused. XD

Ni seeks to build systems on the inside. It wants to connect the dots and create a vast network of understanding between all that is known to the user about a particular subject. Ni does not care about the outside world, it, instead, draws its data from every thought, feeling, and sensation the user has ever had. Ni creates something from the vast pool of information that dwells inside the mind (most often drawing from the unconscious parts). However, because Ni is drawing from so MUCH information internally, it tends to focus on one thought at a time.

But that kind of sounds like Si. Si is all about drawing from past experiences. Or is it that Ni takes ideas and thoughts about things and stores those away? Or something. x3 You call it information. I'm not entirely sure what "information" it stores to connect dots. But I do see that it likes to see all different perspectives - although I know that to an extent, so does Ne.

Ni = value shifting perspectives on their experiences to explore how things would be when viewed in a different context. An Ni user will distrust and devalue Se data (real time, as is information) because things are seldom as they seem (Ni).

And that is a mouthful. O__O So they take past experiences and then use those to come up with different possibilities, perspectives, thoughts, and ideas? And then connect lines between all of them. I suppose. Now my brain is attempting to differentiate between Si, which does that with Sensory information and calls upon that to draw conclusions about the present and make decisions on what to do next. I suppose the difference being Sensory information on past experiences versus.... something... x3

 

[CounterPoint]

Thanks, guys! ^^ Still muddling through all this. Haha. ^^

@CounterPoint - Ah. Thank you. My brain definitely wants to make a similarity connection from Ti to Fi. I can see why people say they are similar, even though they are actually entirely different things. Fi and Ti want to make sense of things internally. In a basic sense, what do I think about this/feel about this. And Te wants to make sense of the outside world. @Kyrielle, thanks for that. I'm just trying to say things in my own words so I know I at least loosely understand it. If I can't put it into my own words, it means I'm still confused. XD

Yes, similar process of evaluation between fi and ti. The difference is that Ti checks if decisions are congruent with technical (or logical) aspects of the situation while Fi checks if behaviors are congruent with individual belief systems.

 

[Jewl]

Yes, similar process of evaluation between fi and ti. The difference is that Ti checks if decisions are congruent with technical (or logical) aspects of the situation while Fi checks if behaviors are congruent with individual belief systems.

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that introverted functions are practically indescribable. XD Ti and Fi: They just are whut they are. Leave it at that. O_O

Te also checks the technical or logical aspects of a situation... or so I thought. Here I go in circles again. X_x I am obviously in need of a Remedial Cognitive Functions Class.

 

[CounterPoint]

lol...

It's easier if you look at the functions as values. An Fi user will value their internal belief systems much higher than any other kind of data. Note that I didn’t say Fi are “internal values”, because we all have those, right? It’s just that we all don’t put the same weight to those values. An Fi dom, then, is said to put a lot of weight on that kind of info.

For instance, a pissed off IxFP may do something irrational, not because they don’t realize it, but because they just don’t give a shit if being rational contradicts their belief systems. That is to say they don’t care for (devalue) external rationality (inferior Te).

 

[Jewl]

@CounterPoint, haha, thanks. XD

Fi = weight on internal values, basically? Man, that makes sense for once. O_O

It's odd looking at Te. It's the Thinking function that seems most "cold" to me. The function that I instantly recoil from. Or rather, I just decide, "I don't really want to do that."

So, in the same way Fi is similar to Ti, Te is similar to Fe. Te is weight on external rational. Although external rational is something I still have to look into to fully understand as well. XD Haha.

Fe, weight on how everybody else/everything else feels (values)?
Ti, weight on... internal rational?

 

[Kito]

Maybe it'd be easier to understand them by comparing them to other ones?

In a Fi dom/aux user, they will often make decisions based on what they want for themselves and what's going to make them happiest. For example, "I am going to eat these sweets because that would make me happy."

Tertiary or inferior Te then goes against this, and would use logic it's heard to decide this instead. So Te would instead think "Most health advisers say that sweets are bad for your teeth so I'm not going to eat them".

I don't really understand how Ti and Fe would treat that situation, but I do know about the perception functions. Se is what gives you the impulse to eat the sweets in the first place, and doesn't consider the consequences. Fi would judge this impulse by whether or not it'd make you happy to do so, and Ti would figure out whether or not it's logical to follow this impulse.

Ni, on the other hand, is that nagging voice in your mind saying "You could be doing better things with your time than eating sweets" or "Eating these might have some bad consequences". At least, that's the case with Se dom/aux. When it's the other way around, I guess Ni would usually not want to eat them because of the possible consequences (Ni is all about what you can't see, so future events that might follow on from present ones), but might occasionally give in to Se just for the sensory pleasure.

I hope all that made sense, it looks a bit jumbled now I look back on it...

 

[NeedsNewNameNow]

@CounterPoint, haha, thanks. XD

Fi = weight on internal values, basically? Man, that makes sense for once. O_O

It's odd looking at Te. It's the Thinking function that seems most "cold" to me. The function that I instantly recoil from. Or rather, I just decide, "I don't really want to do that."

Hmm, as your third function it shouldn't be that cold too you.. Ti should be worse..

So, in the same way Fi is similar to Ti, Te is similar to Fe. Te is weight on external rational. Although external rational is something I still have to look into to fully understand as well. XD Haha.

Fe, weight on how everybody else/everything else feels (values)?
Ti, weight on... internal rational?[/QUOTE]

Yes.. Fe puts weight on consensus values. Te puts weight on consensus logic.

 

[Jewl]

@NeedsNewNameNow - I know it's odd. But the tertiary function is the one that's supposed to develop later (ish) in life, inferior even more later. I just don't really like it all that much. X_x I feel like I can relate more to Ti, but I think that's because I relate it so much to Fi. That's my mistake. Si is something I don't use much either... Although I do feel I use it more than Te, but that could be because I don't fully understand Te as well as Si. I live with a bunch of people who use Si quite frequently. I know I am an Extravert, although many tests have tried to pin me down as INFP, which would make Te my inferior and Si my tertiary. I've gotten pretty whacky cognitive functions results. However, cognitive functions tests aren't gonna be 100% accurate.

 

[NeedsNewNameNow]

@NeedsNewNameNow - I know it's odd. But the tertiary function is the one that's supposed to develop later (ish) in life, inferior even more later. I just don't really like it all that much. X_x I feel like I can relate more to Ti, but I think that's because I relate it so much to Fi. That's my mistake. Si is something I don't use much either... Although I do feel I use it more than Te, but that could be because I don't fully understand Te as well as Si. I live with a bunch of people who use Si quite frequently. I know I am an Extravert, although many tests have tried to pin me down as INFP, which would make Te my inferior and Si my tertiary. I've gotten pretty whacky cognitive functions results. However, cognitive functions tests aren't gonna be 100% accurate.

Maybe you are a social INFP? Extraversion in the typing sense doesn't always mean socially extraverted, especially with Ne. Plenty of ENTPs and ENFPs report that they are rather introverted (socially), while some INTPs and INFPs say they have no issues with socializing. The lines can get pretty blurry in our types

 

[Jewl]

Maybe you are a social INFP? Extraversion in the typing sense doesn't always mean socially extraverted, especially with Ne. Plenty of ENTPs and ENFPs report that they are rather introverted (socially), while some INTPs and INFPs say they have no issues with socializing. The lines can get pretty blurry in our types

It's entirely possible. To tell you the truth, I feel like the perfect balance between Introvert and Extravert. I need time alone, I need time to socialize. Both equally energize me. And when I say equally, I mean it. I feel like I tip more towards the Extravert side, still, as everything I do is me looking outwards. And reaching outwards. And I feel I look outwards before I look inwards, even though I am constantly tied to my feelings. If there were such thing as ANFP, that'd be me. ^^

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

Yeah, most ENFPs I know don't really have an issue with tert. Te. It's either that, you're an INFP with inferior Te, or you're sort of mistaking it for Ti somehow (or you're just associating negative connotations with Te for some reason). Ti's the function that would come off as more inherently cold to NFPs than Te, since Ti doms especially, take their logic very seriously, since it is subjective, so if your feelings don't make sense to them, but you're asserting them in this almost "factual" way, which tends to be common among Fi doms, auxes (since they feel that their feelings are true and trustworthy), the Ti doms are usually ready to rip your view apart until it makes sense to them. They tend to be the ones who have less tolerance of anything that resembles subjective feelings. I think Te types are going to come off as more understanding to higher Fi types than Ti types, although a lot of Ti types are good at masking this with their Fe, just to get by in these situations. Ti and Fi are actually each others' worst nightmare out of all of the functions, since they essentially ignore each other's strengths in order to make decisions. When fights get nasty between these types, it usually comes down to the Ti type feeling like the Fi type doesn't "get" the importance of their logic and doesn't care to respect this, so their efforts at just being themselves around the Fi type feel thwarted, while the Fi type feels like the Ti type doesn't "get" the importance of their feelings and doesn't care to respect this, so their efforts as just being themselves around the Ti type feel thwarted. I'm not saying that "so-and-so types can't get along due to their type," that would be silly, but truth be told, Te and Fi are a lot more complementary than Ti and Fi, since Te is more objective, and can thus accept the subjective existence of Fi, while Ti is more stubbornly subjective, so anything that doesn't resemble it's subjective expectations enough due to having vastly different subjective expectations is going to be viewed with suspicion (and it helps to keep in mind that Ti and Fi don't naturally get the extent of their subjectivity, particularly in the dominant form, since these processes are akin to the ease of breathing in these types). It's like how people with vastly different opinions are going to naturally have trouble respecting the existence of the other opinion, since they hold so much subjective weight in their opinions. All of the extroverted functions are more objective, so they're all going to be more respectful of the subjective deviations than objective deviations in the form of their demonic function. For instance, Fe can respect Ti as subjective thoughts deviating from Fe's objective feeling value standards, but it can't accept Te as a deviation, because Te is objective like it is, and on a completely different agenda (promoting external standards of logic, over feelings), so it can't compromise because it promotes entirely new standards - it can't deviate from standards the way introverted, subjective functions can, so these two will directly oppose each other. The subjectivity/objectivity of the functions is what makes the biggest difference between accepting/rejection. Objective functions (so Je and Pe) uphold standards, while subjective functions (Ji and Pi) eliminate standards and work in variables to help shape the standards of the Je or Pe functions.