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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I get the functions. Really, I think I finally get them. I have a good idea of their differences... in theory.

But I still am at an absolute loss for how to type people in reality.

I can get some ideas. One girl I'm certain uses Fi. Her face never shows emotion, she is never expressive... and yet she's always talking about what she feels, her opinions, and through her words you know she feels something... you just don't see it. Another girl I'm 100% certain is a TJ. She has a naturally commanding presence, and people like her, she always gets stuff done, and she's just... direct. She doesn't seem to care about he people perceive her, only that she gets done what she needs to, and she's popular but more for her presence I think than because she goes out of her way to make others feel good.

And yet? I still can't figure out if the first girl is an ISFP or an ISTJ, and the second girl could be any TJ as far as I can tell. I'm having a hard time typing people, particularly casually.

So, are there any things that make you immediately aware of function use?

I know it's almost impossible to type someone without their input, and it's hard to type casually, but I would appreciate just some pointers that might really suggest if someone uses this function or that function.
 

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I generally only do this for fun with my husfiend, for discussion purposes. Generally, you can't really tell anything unless you've conversed with them a bit.

Try not to focus on the letter dichotomies in particular, because they trip you up really quickly, as you can't really lock into a person in that way, in my opinion.

I think functions are a lot easier to see. Just look at what they seem to appreciate, and not only how they interact with you, but also how they interact with others.

It's easy to use yourself as a starting point. So, as an ENFJ, you use Fe-Ni-Se-Ti. You'll notice that you get along best with people who use these functions, even if they're in different orders. You'll also notice that I respond well to your Fe, but may ignore or show disinterest when you present Ni. Our common threads are Fe and Ti. You see?

It's really about understanding what a person's motivations behind their actions are. They may have your exact same interests, hobbies, goals... But, they could have completely different reasons and motivations for doing those things. And that comes out in how they express themselves, little by little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@word Dispensor it's just funny to me, because... generally FJs stay away from me. My best friends are usually guys, and, off the top of my head, I've had... an ESTJ best friend, an INTJ best friend, an ENFP sort of friend (he never attached to me but), an INTP best friend...

With girls I've had an ISFP best friend, some Fi/Te type best friend, maybe an FJ... and my current two best friends both seem to be ISFJ. I mean... I guess I attract Fe/Ni, but it's still a little fuzzy for me there. It's true that the teachers who like me most are IxFJ - both my INFJ teacher and my ISFJ teacher I had my senior year just absolutely loved me, while the ESFP teacher found me annoying and big picture - y, my INTP teacher found me attentive but not abrasive enough with my opinions, and my Ne teacher just... found me cute, and full of potential, but much too quiet and self conscious - but... I like people who are different from me. We don't quite fit together, but we sort of make ourselves fit together.

That aside though, I get what you mean. I genuinely try to like everyone? But it's true I am a lot more openly happy when I see someone graciously considering other's feelings in the way she treats others, and that I enjoy a conversation more when it seeks truth rather than goes in the direction of "well that could be true, but this could also be true! and have you heard about - " (like just find the truth, what ifs don't matter if they're not true :p)

And yeah, you're right about functions. Like even if I get an ESFJ professor or something, I know I'm going to have to stretch to access that Ti to please him no matter what, because that's what is needed from me - my Ti, with the help of my Ni if I can use it convincingly. Like, I can know in general (I wouldn't practice this anyway because I can't match Fi standards to begin with but) that if someone's Fi, they appreciate my honesty more and grow annoyed if they see me go back on my word or something, say something contradictory.

Ack. I'm still trying to figure this out. But thank you for your help regardless, Word Dispensor. :) I always appreciate it, and it think your comment is helping me get on the right track.
 
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I have my own system that is always adjusting. I know what an ISTP is for example, in theory. This girl I have known forever typed as one. Which surprised me, but makes perfect sense in retrospect. I just had no point of reference for what an ISTP female looked liked in the flesh. Not that they are all the same, but you can pick up on certain qualities that are pretty prominent in the type. So I try to find a pattern in that type, and look for it. I try to find universal qualities.

It is like a rubix cubs. I just examine it from every angle, and try to match the colors.

I have my own definition of functions like I said. Si is mousey. It is dreary. Dusty. Suffocating. It moves slowly. I can feel it. It is like standing in line at the DMV, post office or bank. It is a tangible thing I perceive.

There was an interesting visual typing video which was taken off youtube. It used Joan Baez as an example of INFP. INFP have a "receding momentum" look on their face. Like they are going to cry, or pop their head back in their shell. I do think there is at least something to visual typing. I can tell Baez is using Fi just by the look on her face. Nobody would mistake her for a thinker, or other functions. LOOK at her. The Fi:

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@FearAndTrembling Thank you for your comment! I've seen you post that video before :) The Fi girl I was referring to does the same thing with her face - she's passionate, but she just does not show it facially - but I think she must be ISFP because she's a lot more direct, and she wouldn't be talking about using non violence to solve world problems. I don't see her Se much but she seems so have Ni I guess, she has a central idea of concepts and while I find her application of those concepts falty at times / different from my application of those concepts, she's definitely not doing things "by the book" and our assigned directions like others in my class.

But, yay. Maybe I've typed one person :)

No, but I really like your Rubix cube approach. That really is the best way to do it, I think - it's not like you can get an idea of their entire type from one sighting. You can guess at it, and poke and prod, but ultimately it is a lot harder than that.

Thank you again for your suggestions!
 
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@word Dispensor it's just funny to me, because... generally FJs stay away from me. My best friends are usually guys, and, off the top of my head, I've had... an ESTJ best friend, an INTJ best friend, an ENFP sort of friend (he never attached to me but), an INTP best friend...

With girls I've had an ISFP best friend, some Fi/Te type best friend, maybe an FJ... and my current two best friends both seem to be ISFJ. I mean... I guess I attract Fe/Ni, but it's still a little fuzzy for me there. It's true that the teachers who like me most are IxFJ - both my INFJ teacher and my ISFJ teacher I had my senior year just absolutely loved me, while the ESFP teacher found me annoying and big picture - y, my INTP teacher found me attentive but not abrasive enough with my opinions, and my Ne teacher just... found me cute, and full of potential, but much too quiet and self conscious - but... I like people who are different from me. We don't quite fit together, but we sort of make ourselves fit together.

That aside though, I get what you mean. I genuinely try to like everyone? But it's true I am a lot more openly happy when I see someone graciously considering other's feelings in the way she treats others, and that I enjoy a conversation more when it seeks truth rather than goes in the direction of "well that could be true, but this could also be true! and have you heard about - " (like just find the truth, what ifs don't matter if they're not true :p)

And yeah, you're right about functions. Like even if I get an ESFJ professor or something, I know I'm going to have to stretch to access that Ti to please him no matter what, because that's what is needed from me - my Ti, with the help of my Ni if I can use it convincingly. Like, I can know in general (I wouldn't practice this anyway because I can't match Fi standards to begin with but) that if someone's Fi, they appreciate my honesty more and grow annoyed if they see me go back on my word or something, say something contradictory.

Ack. I'm still trying to figure this out. But thank you for your help regardless, Word Dispensor. :) I always appreciate it, and it think your comment is helping me get on the right track.
Well, it's not about whether you like or dislike someone. :laughing:

It's more understanding the dynamics of cognition and how it works together.

A great example of this is Socionics quadras, because you get a sense for, not only how certain functions work in unison, but also of how these groups view the other groups. Socionics Quadras

I really think that you should learn more about Socionics. There are nuances there which really help to connect the dots, and you just don't get that when you view it like, xxFJ. Which is probably the most backwards way of understanding someone's type I've ever seen. :laughing: I don't think I've ever typed anyone like that, before.

I normally start with dominant position.. And when I have an impression, I'm normally pretty close.

I typed a guy as Fe-dom, my husband said Ne-dom, but then after a lot of thought, he came to the same conclusion. Albeit, I thought Fe-Ni, and he thought Fe-Si, and then we now both agree Fe-Si. It kinda helps to have someone to bounce these thoughts off of, as well. :proud:
 

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@FearAndTrembling Thank you for your comment! I've seen you post that video before :) The Fi girl I was referring to does the same thing with her face - she's passionate, but she just does not show it facially - but I think she must be ISFP because she's a lot more direct, and she wouldn't be talking about using non violence to solve world problems. I don't see her Se much but she seems so have Ni I guess, she has a central idea of concepts and while I find her application of those concepts falty at times / different from my application of those concepts, she's definitely not doing things "by the book" and our assigned directions like others in my class.

But, yay. Maybe I've typed one person :)

No, but I really like your Rubix cube approach. That really is the best way to do it, I think - it's not like you can get an idea of their entire type from one sighting. You can guess at it, and poke and prod, but ultimately it is a lot harder than that.

Thank you again for your suggestions!
I have to interject here and say that @FearAndTrembling's example is probably, without doubt (Contradictory or what?), INFP. There's Fi, yes, that's just pouring out of her, but there's Ne too. Visual typing-wise. Sparkly, big doe eyes are Ne-eyes. Like Regina Spektor, or Tori Amos. Sparkly Fi-Ne.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have to interject here and say that @FearAndTrembling's example is probably, without doubt (Contradictory or what?), INFP. There's Fi, yes, that's just pouring out of her, but there's Ne too. Visual typing-wise. Sparkly, big doe eyes are Ne-eyes. Like Regina Spektor, or Tori Amos. Sparkly Fi-Ne.
Oh, I'm sure of that as well! I was comparing the INFP in the video to the ISFP in one of my classes. Sorry for the confusion!
 
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@FearAndTrembling Thank you for your comment! I've seen you post that video before :) The Fi girl I was referring to does the same thing with her face - she's passionate, but she just does not show it facially - but I think she must be ISFP because she's a lot more direct, and she wouldn't be talking about using non violence to solve world problems. I don't see her Se much but she seems so have Ni I guess, she has a central idea of concepts and while I find her application of those concepts falty at times / different from my application of those concepts, she's definitely not doing things "by the book" and our assigned directions like others in my class.

But, yay. Maybe I've typed one person :)

No, but I really like your Rubix cube approach. That really is the best way to do it, I think - it's not like you can get an idea of their entire type from one sighting. You can guess at it, and poke and prod, but ultimately it is a lot harder than that.

Thank you again for your suggestions!
I have many ways of doing it, but an easy way that often works is just a process of elimination. 16 types. Find the most obvious trait they have. My INTP friend for example. Biggest P in the world. I lived with him, I know him. He is a perceiver. So, 8 types. What is his next most obvious trait? He is an intuitive. 4 types. And he's an introvert, so he is an INFP or INTP.

That doesn't always work, but it is one to try. I use many different systems with my own twist. Jung, Keirsey, MBTI, etc. They all have some value and at least some parts that line up with my experience.

And Ne is more floaty, like Word Dispenser said. Se is more intense than Ne. Like many people argue whether Eminem is an ISFP or ISTP. But few people would argue he is an INFP or INTP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, it's not about whether you like or dislike someone. :laughing:

It's more understanding the dynamics of cognition and how it works together.

A great example of this is Socionics quadras, because you get a sense for, not only how certain functions work in unison, but also of how these groups view the other groups. Socionics Quadras

I really think that you should learn more about Socionics. There are nuances there which really help to connect the dots, and you just don't get that when you view it like, xxFJ. Which is probably the most backwards way of understanding someone's type I've ever seen. :laughing: I don't think I've ever typed anyone like that, before.

I normally start with dominant position.. And when I have an impression, I'm normally pretty close.

I typed a guy as Fe-dom, my husband said Ne-dom, but then after a lot of thought, he came to the same conclusion. Albeit, I thought Fe-Ni, and he thought Fe-Si, and then we now both agree Fe-Si. It kinda helps to have someone to bounce these thoughts off of, as well. :proud:
Hmm... Honestly, I am going to have to take your advice on just learning Socionics. The quadras make so much sense, and the dichotomies are also very useful. I've been planning to make a topic on typing by Socionics for a while now (or rather... people's recommendations for learning Socionics), but it hasn't been on my forefront of mind lately (except to wonder why Hamlet is called the EIE mascot... gosh, I've read the play three times and still don't get it. I'm taking a point away from Socionics for funky labeling :p). I'll look up just some basic quadra stuff tonight though.

Thank you again for your suggestions! Again, they seem very helpful :)
 
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... Here we go. Fi isn't suppressing your feelings, it's just valuing internal harmony over external harmony but i can see why a Fi user might suppress that part of them because they will seem self-absorbed to the SFJ majority, if you want to figure out who is a Fi or Fe user, make them feel like a pariah - see how they react if they are still sticking to their guns then they are probably a Fi user.


It's because people take the terms 'extroverted' and 'introverted' too literally, talking about your feels doesn't equate with Fe and suppressing them doesn't equate with Fi, Fi is personal ethics, Fe is collective ethics. I know that you're probably reading it as Fi = quiet about their feelings and Fe = loud about their feelings but that isn't the case. Introverted functions = attached to the self, extroverted functions = attached to others, that's probably an easier way of remembering it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
... Here we go. Fi isn't suppressing your feelings, it's just valuing internal harmony over external harmony but i can see why a Fi user might suppress that part of them because they will seem self-absorbed to the SFJ majority, if you want to figure out who is a Fi or Fe user, make them feel like a pariah - see how they react if they are still sticking to their guns then they are probably a Fi user.


It's because people take the terms 'extroverted' and 'introverted' too literally, talking about your feels doesn't equate with Fe and suppressing them doesn't equate with Fi, Fi is personal ethics, Fe is collective ethics. I know that you're probably reading it as Fi = quiet about their feelings and Fe = loud about their feelings but that isn't the case. Introverted functions = attached to the self, extroverted functions = attached to others, that's probably an easier way of remembering it.
Hi, just to clarify, I wasn't saying that she was suppressing her feelings. I was saying she wasn't expressing them as I would, and she just in general has the same passionate but not passionate-in-my-way passion that the woman in FearandTremblng's video showed.

Sorry if it seemed like I was stereotyping. If I do stereotype about Fi, please do correct me, but I think I was using correct information in deciding she (girl in my class) uses Fi.
 

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Some of the extraverted sensing and extraverted ethics one's looked very questionably and biased to that function, but I surmise some form of understanding and as an INxP currently leaning towards INFP, I could really relate to introverted ethics (interesting how they used that instead of feelings- makes me think it should be reasoning vs. values at the moment). Strangely I connected more to introverted intuition's vocabulary... this is why I question whether I may be an ISFP. I might need to look more into that personality type. I really connect to Ne-user's randomness, but who says other types can't be just as random?
 

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Eh. Just for fun. Though this is such a frustrating thing to describe in words for me. Because there are automatically indicators that tell my gut "x type" over another. Not that I necessarily take it seriously but the impression is formed regardless.

Te: always very direct, well pronounced speech. Even when hushed it's easy to make out the words. But it's not meant directly at you. Even if saying something incredibly intimate there is a "matter of fact" vibe to the way it is said. Always feels like being carefully listened to and analyzed when speaking.

Fe-Ni: Direct and, especially with ENFJ, it feels like a very strong part of them is trying to pull you in. Very direct speech with the purpose of leaving an impact. An older man presented today and I felt those same vibes, he spoke quietly but as he turned around to look at the classmates, there was an intimate eye contact with everyone, a sort of head tilt to the side with slightly squinted eyes, even hand movements trying to engage you. The energy isn't bubbly. The point of a story is always to reach a greater purpose or point.

Fi-Se : as you mentioned, there is lack of facial expression! With all of my ISFP friends as well as ESFP friend. I think it makes them look intimidating or uninterested to a lot of people especially if they don't talk a lot. But the conversation is a dead give away. All of them had a very organized/specific topic of interest or idea they were very passionate about (one involved environmental ethics, another was very into socialism and etc).

Ti-Ne : Odd and funny disconnection of the speech. Child-like pattern to the speech when feeling awkward or nervous. Intimidating factor isn't really present. Day-dreamy. Very often seems to be disconnected. Eyes not intimidating or intense. Comes of fairly plain if not for the distinct amusing speech patterns (especially when feeling awkward).

Fi-Ne has already been described well in a way I've seen it too so there's nothing to add.
 

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That's so cool thank you!

Hope you don't mind me asking, but is there any other interesting wikisocion stuff you have? I'm absolutely terrible at navigating through that website lol
Well, there are soooo much things in wikisocion. But we are talking about functions. So I will give you those two links, for the sake of understanding functions :

Informations elements : Very concise and synthetic stuff. But this is the essence of each function, and it can help you understand the difference between them.

SLE domain : This is very direct and straightforward. This is basically "typology, in less than 5 minutes". Very funny and gives a good idea of what types, quadra and duality are. Of course this is exaggerated, but the basic idea are accurate. SLE's are awesome.
 

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I'd give this a whirl: http://http://insomnials.tumblr.com/post/107724039553/mbti-typing-people-how-i-do-it Nothing concrete, but you can't really type someone just by their mannerisms. I've been told that I have a "Te face" whatever that means.

If you're really desperate to find out, just chuck a stapler at the first person. If they catch it, they're an ESFP. If they dodge it, they're an ISFP. If a collision occurs, they're probably an ISTJ. In all seriousness though, good Se users will probably be the first to react to something unexpected in their environment.

As for the TJ, that one will probably be more difficult without engaging them in conversation.
 
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