Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 120 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How do you know that a person is an INTP and not an ENTP? What are traits that can distinguish the other from the other, that makes it possible to be able to tell apart an outgoing INTP from an ENTP and an INTP from a shy ENTP? What makes the Ti dom INTP distinguishable from the Ne dom ENTP? Inferior Fe and Inferior Si, can anyone please explain or give sample situations on how these two work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
One is extraverted and one is not. -.-

Does the person gain or lose energy whilst socializing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
One is extraverted and one is not. -.-

Does the person gain or lose energy whilst socializing?
^ not necessarily. The more introverted ENTPs actually get exhausted if they have to socialize for too long, so gaining energy while socializing/being around people more/being more outgoing doesn't actually point to an ENTP over INTP.


I'll say to see what they prioritize. Do they care more about ideas, or do they care more about being concise? The former will be ENTP, and the latter will be INTP, though that's not applicable to every single ENTP and INTP. Probably more useful if trying to type a generally healthy and mature person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
^ not necessarily. The more introverted ENTPs actually get exhausted if they have to socialize for too long, so gaining energy while socializing/being around people more/being more outgoing doesn't actually point to an ENTP over INTP.


I'll say to see what they prioritize. Do they care more about ideas, or do they care more about being concise? The former will be ENTP, and the latter will be INTP, though that's not applicable to every single ENTP and INTP. Probably more useful if trying to type a generally healthy and mature person.
Introversion/Extraversion is a scientifically established thing. MBTI isn't.
 

·
Sharp Cutting Thing
Joined
·
9,675 Posts
Introversion/Extraversion is a scientifically established thing. MBTI isn't.
And as any ENTP will tell you we get our external energy from things and ideas rather than people (well, usually).

There was a thread on the ENTP forum not too long ago where it turned out most of us have a bare handful of people we call "friends".

Social extraversion =/= cognitive extraversion

Kitty Sith Lord
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
And as any ENTP will tell you we get our external energy from things rather than people (well, usually).

There was a thread on the ENTP forum not too long ago where it turned out most of us have a bare handful of people we call "friends".

Social extraversion =/= cognitive extraversion

Kitty Sith Lord
I love how completely unrelated that was to my quote. xD
 

·
Sharp Cutting Thing
Joined
·
9,675 Posts
I love how completely unrelated that was to my quote. xD
And I love how you're flat-out ignoring two ENTPs telling you you're wrong.


Kitty Sith Lord
 
  • Like
Reactions: TimeGirl

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I'll say to see what they prioritize. Do they care more about ideas, or do they care more about being concise? The former will be ENTP, and the latter will be INTP, though that's not applicable to every single ENTP and INTP. Probably more useful if trying to type a generally healthy and mature person.
Can you please elaborate? Like, as an ENTP, how does this quality manifest in you (like, caring more about the idea than being concise)? I'm sorry. I'm just really confused right now. ; u ;
 

·
Sharp Cutting Thing
Joined
·
9,675 Posts
...which is an argument to authority, the way you're using it, and hence a fallacy.

Have you ever bothered to actually compare MBTI and SLOAN/Big 5 I/E scale questions? The moment you do your claim falls apart. Both scales use the same questions, occasionally word-for-word, which means that, statistically, they are equally valid.

Most ENTPs score middling on both the MBTI and SLOAN I/E scales. What does this tell you?

You see, the root issue is that both scales use sociability as a proxy for social extraversion (which in MBTI is then used as a proxy for cognitive extraversion; at least the SLOAN researchers acknowledge this limitation). ENTPs are not, in fact, particularly sociable -- in fact, by most measures, most ENTPs will come across as introverts in most socialization. (Which gives rise to the stereotype of ENTP as the most introverted extravert.) This is true whatever authority you take, because what the test measures is not the same kind of extraversion as an ENTP's extraversion.


Kitty Sith Lord
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Can you please elaborate? Like, as an ENTP, how does this quality manifest in you (like, caring more about the idea than being concise)? I'm sorry. I'm just really confused right now. ; u ;
Hmm...
Okay, if an INTP and an ENTP both wants to write a story...
Say, if both wanted to add a dragon attacking the protagonist in the story...
An INTP is going to look into how the dragon will attack, how the protagonist will get hurt, and fine-tune the details inside their ideas. In other words, they have lesser ideas, but more details within those ideas.
An ENTP will have more ideas, the moves of the dragons, the moves of the protagonist, an insane ninja dolphin drop kicking the dragon...
However, they won't really tune into the details, so they probably won't bother to think about what color the dragon scales should be until much later.



Personally, for me, the best way to identify an INTP and ENTP is to look at which function is more inferior to them.
INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
ENTP: Ne-Ti-Fe-Si

Is the person worse at memory work, or worse at understanding what others feel (and being able to empathize)?
The former will be an ENTP and the latter will be an INTP.
...I hope my explanation helps, though I think I just made things more confusing. D:
 

·
Sharp Cutting Thing
Joined
·
9,675 Posts
Noting that something is not accepted in the scientific community is automatically an argument to authority!?

Here's a fairly comprehensive article on the subject:
Why the Myers-Briggs test is totally meaningless - Vox
And did you notice that you're using authority to blind yourself from actually evaluating an argument on its own merits?

THIS IS A FALLACY. THIS IS NOT DOING LOGIC.

(And, I may add, not very INTPy at all)


Kitty Sith Lord
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,048 Posts
Noting that something is not accepted in the scientific community is automatically an argument to authority!?

Here's a fairly comprehensive article on the subject:
Why the Myers-Briggs test is totally meaningless - Vox
It follows to say that ENTP and INTP are completely unsubstantiated and meaningless acronyms (except extrovert or introvert). Apparently though introversion and extroversion are a continuum therefore I believe it also be meaningless to make a dichotomy out of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
...which is an argument to authority, the way you're using it, and hence a fallacy.

Have you ever bothered to actually compare MBTI and SLOAN/Big 5 I/E scale questions? The moment you do your claim falls apart. Both scales use the same questions, occasionally word-for-word, which means that, statistically, they are equally valid.

Most ENTPs score middling on both the MBTI and SLOAN I/E scales. What does this tell you?

You see, the root issue is that both scales use sociability as a proxy for social extraversion (which in MBTI is then used as a proxy for cognitive extraversion; at least the SLOAN researchers acknowledge this limitation). ENTPs are not, in fact, particularly sociable -- in fact, by most measures, most ENTPs will come across as introverts in most socialization. (Which gives rise to the stereotype of ENTP as the most introverted extravert.) This is true whatever authority you take, because what the test measures is not the same kind of extraversion as an ENTP's extraversion.


Kitty Sith Lord
fallacyMan1.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Introversion/Extraversion is a scientifically established thing. MBTI isn't.
Look at the definitions.

Introversion: 1 : the act of directing one's attention toward or getting gratification from one's own interests, thoughts, and feelings.

Extraversion: the act of direction one's attention towards others and their external surroundings

There's nothing in the definitions that dictates that an extrovert will be more talkative or outgoing than an introvert. True, an extrovert is /more likely/ to be more outgoing, but the definitions pointed out that the differences is mainly where their attention focused on most of the time. ENTPs are extroverts because they are aware of their external surroundings, and the external possibilities.

Also, if you are going to argue that introversion and extroversion is applicable within MBTI, why don't you take a good look at the definitions of Introverts and Extroverts in the MBTI before using false definitions to identify MBTI types?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
I'll say to see what they prioritize. Do they care more about ideas, or do they care more about being concise? The former will be ENTP, and the latter will be INTP, though that's not applicable to every single ENTP and INTP. Probably more useful if trying to type a generally healthy and mature person.
I actually don't know if I agree with this part. But then again there is a tendency to defer to details more than an ENTP because of the Si I suppose. I take it to mean that an INTP will go to greater lengths to put the idea into concrete terms. There is also mention about how when an INTP has ideas they don't usually manifest in the real world very often or easily. Cognitive extroversion is not hidden from sight for an ENTP, they will engage in their environment more readily, energetically messing around with stuff. For an INTP being playful will feed into Ti, while for ENTP Ti will feed into being playful. I think from here it is pretty clear how you can tell one from the other, even though specifics weren't given so much. Largely because for the most part they are very similar imo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
Look at the definitions.

Introversion: 1 : the act of directing one's attention toward or getting gratification from one's own interests, thoughts, and feelings.

Extraveraion: the act of direction one's attention towards others and their external surroundings

There's nothing in the definitions that dictates that an extrovert will be more talkative or outgoing than an introvert. True, an extrovert is /more likely/ to be more outgoing, but the definitions pointed out that the differences is mainly where their attention focused on most of the time. ENTPs are extroverts because they are aware of their external surroundings, and the external possibilities.

Also, if you are going to argue that introversion and extroversion is applicable within MBTI, why don't you take a good look at the definitions of Introverts and Extroverts in the MBTI before using false definitions to identify MBTI types?
Wikipedia on "Extraversion and introversion":
"The trait of extraversion–introversion is a central dimension of human personality theories. The terms introversion and extraversion were first popularized by Carl Jung,[1] although both the popular understanding and psychological age differ from his original intent. Extraversion tends to be manifested in outgoing, talkative, energetic behavior, whereas introversion is manifested in more reserved and solitary behavior."

Though perhaps you're right, if I'm talking about the internal logic of the pseudoscience of MBTI, I should also use its terms in its own context.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MoltenHorse

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
I actually don't know if I agree with this part. But then again there is a tendency to defer to details more than an ENTP because of the Si I suppose. I take it to mean that an INTP will go to greater lengths to put the idea into concrete terms. There is also mention about how when an INTP has ideas they don't usually manifest in the real world very often or easily. Cognitive extroversion is not hidden from sight for an ENTP, they will engage in their environment more readily, energetically messing around with stuff. For an INTP being playful will feed into Ti, while for ENTP Ti will feed into being playful. I think from here it is pretty clear how you can tell one from the other, even though specifics weren't given so much. Largely because for the most part they are very similar imo.
For most part, I'll agree with you. I don't know much about how an INTP uses Ne, or how frequently they used it, but I think it's more likely for an ENTP to be caught between INTP and ENTP than vice versa, since it seems like most ENTPs I knew used Ti almost as much as Ne, except that their Ti is internalize and concealed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
And did you notice that you're using authority to blind yourself from actually evaluating an argument on its own merits?

THIS IS A FALLACY. THIS IS NOT DOING LOGIC.

(And, I may add, not very INTPy at all)


Kitty Sith Lord
No, I'm not going to accept your pseudoscientific assumptions.

This is exactly equivalent to you arguing what an Aquarius's personality should be like, and me simply stating that astrology is rubbish.
 
1 - 20 of 120 Posts
Top