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I've noticed that several Fours, both in real life and fictional characters, seem to display a great desire to be "like an Eight", especially admiring the Eight values of strength and independence, as well as exhibiting the Eightish trait of repressing feelings of vulnerability. Is this a common trend for Fours? (I've seen it in both 4w3s and 4w5s.) A particularly unhealthy 4w5 once detailed to me their hidden ruthlessness and vengeance, that was particularly reminiscent of the lower levels of Eight, although it seemed very much in a theoretical/fantasizing way rather than something they knew they'd be capable of carrying out. Generally Fours seem to identify themselves with villain archetypes more than actually acting "evil".
I can see the admiration of Eight traits coming from the desire to be unique, I guess... any actual Fours want to chime in?
 

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Subterranean Homesick Alien
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I don't understand the 8 type well enough to say, but I admire assertive triad traits in general...I will say I have a definite power seeking part of myself, and I've fantasized about it too in horrible ways but in ones I wouldn't ever act out on. I've acted it out more against myself. It's come out intellectually in subtle ways and it could come out sexually too. I'm just not sure how to connect it to being a 4. I'm definitely drawn to bitches tho. I like bitches. Like Cersei Lannister's bitchface. I want it
 

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I don't understand the 8 type well enough to say, but I admire assertive triad traits in general...I will say I have a definite power seeking part of myself, and I've fantasized about it too in horrible ways but in ones I wouldn't ever act out on. I've acted it out more against myself. It's come out intellectually in subtle ways and it could come out sexually too. I'm just not sure how to connect it to being a 4. I'm definitely drawn to bitches tho. I like bitches. Like Cersei Lannister's bitchface. I want it
interesting, you asked for opinions on your type recently. all of this sounds very Sexual 4
 
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Subterranean Homesick Alien
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interesting, you asked for opinions on your type recently. all of this sounds very Sexual 4
Lol, while you're at it, what about the rest of it? Thanks. I've actually been trying to figure out if I'm sp/sx or sx/sp, so what about it sounds sx 4 to you?
 

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Lol, while you're at it, what about the rest of it? Thanks. I've actually been trying to figure out if I'm sp/sx or sx/sp, so what about it sounds sx 4 to you?
- Sexual 4 is a very vengeful type. that you would admire assertive triaders and have sadistic thoughts would make sense
- Sexual 4 is also the only 4 who could be definitely described as "power seeking". Social and Self Preservation 4s are kind of the opposite. in fact, they're often fairly submissive personalities (though the latter will generally be much more resilient than the former)
- the bitchy diva-ness of Sexual 4s is legendary

I hesitate to definitively call you Sexual 4 because you seem fairly chill. Sexual 4 is a temperamental personality prone stormy episodes and all manner of drama (of all the non-head types, Sexual 4 is the most neurotic)
 
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Subterranean Homesick Alien
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- Sexual 4 is a very vengeful type. that you would admire assertive triaders and have sadistic thoughts would make sense
- Sexual 4 is also the only 4 who could be definitely described as "power seeking". Social and Self Preservation 4s are kind of the opposite. in fact, they're often fairly submissive personalities (though the latter will generally be much more resilient than the former)
- the bitchy diva-ness of Sexual 4s is legendary

I hesitate to definitively call you Sexual 4 because you seem fairly chill. Sexual 4 is a temperamental personality prone stormy episodes and all manner of drama (of all the non-head types, Sexual 4 is the most neurotic)
I actually am a very moody person and the moods can be very intense too, even destructive, but I have a part of me which hinders some of my emotional expression, in some situations at least. Might be a combination of 9 and 1

I'll definitely have to keep these things in mind, tho. I'm still not sure. Especially since I can experience almost polar traits and it's hard for me to say I'm definitely one thing without being able to see how I might be the opposite at other times
 

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MOTM Dec 2011
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Nah. I admit that when I read 8 descriptions that it sounds like "meathead" to me. Its not relatable nor desirable.

Desiring power over people is never aggressive in me....rather, I desire magnetism and charisma. I think this stems from 2 disintegration. Being powerful through seduction is appealing, not through sheer aggression. Art and subtlety is admired, even as I find manipulation yucky.

I'm rather temperamental and characterized as such by close family/friends. Of course, I am sx second, but the idea that sx 4s look like 8s is misguided. I think since 4s are the masochistic type and 8s are the sadistic type, there is an inverse relation there, and the more open anguish of the sx 4 can seem punitive or sadistic also (I suffer, so I dont care if others suffer! If they suffer as I do, then maybe they will finally get it and respond to me!). Basically, 4s can have a nasty comfort in the misery of others, and the sx 4 shows this the most. The 4 doesnt gain power this way, but creates a frustration cycle of repelling people the more they lash out. When people hurt or abandon this 4, then desire for revenge may be strong, but 4s feel shame with it too, even if they act in it. Its not their ideal.

I think the sx 4 more than others would desire 2ish seduction qualities. People come to you and fall at your feet because you are so beautiful, exotic, whatever. When this doesnt happen or they even get rejected, then they may get mad.
 
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So I do wish to be more "like an eight" in that I wish I could be more assertive, without being overly sensitive to what happens when I try to claim my space. I think my longing to be more like an eight stems more from my dislike of my nine-fix, my tendency to shut down during conflict, or to be overly flexible at my own expense while the resentment builds. At the same time... I look at Eights, or people with Eight fixes, and I'm like... wow, you're still f*%!ing terrified, aren't you? You act like you own the place, like you're owed respect, like everyone needs to get out of your way -- but you're really no more entitled to this space than I am, and you know it deep down, don't you? Don't you? You know you're overcompensating for your weakness, don't you? Ha. Ha. Ha. *I'm* in control. Yell and be boisterous all you want -- I am calm and you. can't. touch me. (Skewed nine-fix thinking)

Being a Four, I also want to be draw strength FROM vulnerability, be able to be sensitive and creative and independent and unique without being deterred by rejection, even if it hurts.

And yet because pain affects me so much... I do wish I could at least just turn it on its head and dish it back out instead. Say "screw you for messing with me, get out of my way, I'm here and I'm staying as long as I please." But again... more to do with disliking my nine-fix more than anything. It would be nice to have everything I want at once, but I can't.

I'm drunk right now
 

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Not an actual 4, but I have a couple of quick insights.

When I was considering being a 4 once, and said I could also identify with 8, I was told it was all wishful thinking on my part. That I could only HOPE for independence and strength. I found that insulting, both to myself and to 4s in general. I think 4s are often very autonomous and determined to succeed in their own right. They are also very strong, being in touch with the darkness and depths as they are. Most people can't say that of themselves.

I have noticed a "4s and 8s like each other" trend online, however. They're both dark types, in touch with their inner badness. Perhaps they see through one another's psychological shielding. Fours in particular are sensitive to the unspoken sadness, which I think a lot of 8s have in abundance. They may also admire the fact that 8s are just honest--in touch with "real" emotions.

But I also think 4s have their own set of concerns, and probably don't want to be 8s. Naranjo lists the two types as being inverses of one another, meaning they are sort of the same energy in reverse flows. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

I look at Eights, or people with Eight fixes, and I'm like... wow, you're still f*%!ing terrified, aren't you? You act like you own the place, like you're owed respect, like everyone needs to get out of your way -- but you're really no more entitled to this space than I am, and you know it deep down, don't you? Don't you? You know you're overcompensating for your weakness, don't you? Ha. Ha. Ha.
Just for the record, that's not really what it's like from my 8/8-fixed point of view.
 

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Just for the record, that's not really what it's like from my 8/8-fixed point of view.
Oh, yeah, I'm well aware that I'm mostly skewed here, especially because I see it this way only when I'm trying to deal with my own anger issues (especially with regards to conflict with Eights). Who knows what kind of projection or defensive mechanisms I'm employing.

I think it might be true for some unhealthy 8-fixers, to some extent, but even if so ... it would be far more complicated than the way I described.
 

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I have noticed a "4s and 8s like each other" trend online, however. They're both dark types, in touch with their inner badness. Perhaps they see through one another's psychological shielding. Fours in particular are sensitive to the unspoken sadness, which I think a lot of 8s have in abundance. They may also admire the fact that 8s are just honest--in touch with "real" emotions.
Yes, perfect.
 

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I've noticed that several Fours ... seem to display a great desire to be "like an Eight", especially admiring the Eight values of strength and independence, as well as exhibiting the Eightish trait of repressing feelings of vulnerability...
I can see the admiration of Eight traits coming from the desire to be unique, I guess... any actual Fours want to chime in?
8s are incredibly fascinating to me-- and I'm talking the type of 8 that seems most positively developed to me. How can one be so vulnerable inside, and yet behave with such power externally? What drew me originally to the idea (and I stress the word idea, here) of the 8, is how capable they can be of putting aside their feelings when action is necessary. If there's an action that's necessary in a situation, to not have your feelings and attachments get in the way of the solution is amazing to me. They don't try to convince others to love them. They gain respect and position through proving they are worthy and capable. Less talk, more action. They try so hard to protect everybody else around them, but in the end, they are the ones that need protecting. I love that. It's so human. When they act like they own the place, it's not because they're stuck up and think they actually own the place, it's because they need and want to be important and powerful.

Obviously, 8s are not always like this. But this is the impression the ones I love leave me with. Definitely a sense of admiration. I wish I could be as vulnerable as I feel while being as powerful outside as those lovely 8s are. A person that has burning anger that's completely under their control (which I mostly only see in 8s) has me like, "wow O.O" and, "Don't worry, you're safe with me."

I'm sure it has to do with my 4 emotions always feeling like they're out of control. lol.

The character in this vid shows some of how my 8-idea is like in my own head.

 

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Also, I very much believe that if a person is strong in one area and weak in another, the one does not negate the other. You can't deny someone's strength just because weakness prompted them to seek that strength out.

*edit*
Rather like bravery. It's not very brave if you don't have much fear to overcome.
 

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I relate to the combination of 4, 5 and 8 as a tritype. Perhaps that is why I admire, or feel fascinated, by the traits of type 8. I can become quite intellectually and emotionally aggressive and intense if I feel like it.
 

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I do not only admire 8s, I also can pretty often seem like one when I am crossed, being a sexual 4 with a 3 wing.
 
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