Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,643 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yes that's right, you have been recruited as testers for yet another of my thoughs MUHAHAHA.... oh wait everyone is still here.... ahem

Ok guys I need some help with a current concept of mine that I wrote down last night. I feel that I am forgetting something and know that there needs to be changes and adjustments made so can you guys read through it (Sorry about the christian stuff, for those who are not you only need to read my concepts which is the first half before I integrate them.) and tell me what you think of it, your concepts on this topic or what you would change etc. I apologise that it is so poorly written, it is just my nature to write it out very fast and fail to reread over it too much so please excuse the grammar etc. Also note that the first few lines were more notes than apart of the theory so that is why it looks out of place. Thanks again ^_^.

I feel that there is more beyond the surface of love, lets follow the sequence
Passion of love - early
Peace and love - late
Combination?
Something more?

how is this shown? concept - maximum form of love
Theory - I love you more than anyone else on the planet. This heart energy being applied through spoken word - dead
Application - trying to show the capacity of love by a physical measurement or of valuing it with physical worth.
Application of the heart - Christian concept - peace, passion and love combine. Will to change the world for the better
Something more - the love flows freely through someone and can be felt by those around. Love for one is shown in love for all. Hatred, anger and sadness disappear. A beacon of light emerges.

Love for one = Love for all
What is the difference? Love for one is an extention of love for all, when one loves one that came from a love for all in that at some point or another, that person was applicable to the same level of love as all others. Thus our hearts have singled out one with which we consider compatible, or so our heart thinks. But this love is a companionship and comes with responsibilities to the other's heart in all. The christian concept of they become one so to speak. whereas the responsibility with love for all comes from a sense of brotherhood, community etc.

Responsibility is a tie. responsibility shows the application, that is the difference. When one does not love or feels cold or is selfish they would state that having responsibilities would mean that two are joined forcefully and thus love is lost, however, when one loves with all of their heart they take the committment and responsibility and that is a sign of their love, they do not realise this because this is the side affect of love.
This is the same as the tie between the concept of "Faith without works is dead". It makes so much sense now, I knew it but I didn't see it in full until now. One can have faith, but if it does not flow through you and show in application then it shows the true colours.

So love is internal until the final stage. This because we feel love within us and thus believe it to be an internal concept, however love is about the other, the love being a reaction to a connection to another person. They give their love with which we feel and give back. We internalise the love and try to give it at keynote points with gestures which come in the form of love in theory and love in application. When inner peace comes into the fore then we release it, all of the passion that we try to hold down in that captured and propogated love is slowly released after we have been able to show the other that our love is true. The passion is a sign of sincerity. I see it is a step system, this is step two. Step one is the intitialising of love in that we begin to build up the love, we think about the love, we begin to live the love and draw focus to it. No matter how small the love ball really is, it becomes huge due to our perception of it. It is foreign and we are either afraid of it or embracing of it. If embracing then it dissipates as quickly as it comes, we can smother it and realise that it was really as small as we thought, or it becomes childish or shallow, the ball turns into a tiny pool with which they splash around in, rather than embrace. If it is fear of it then we will resist it, but the more we ignore it the more powerful it feels. For example if you hurt your leg and think "I will ignore the pain" then that becomes the focal point of your thinking with pain being the subject, thus drawing issue to it.

By the time we identify it and come to terms with it we see it now as considerably more than what it is, such as when a child sees a person taller than it for the first time and believes them to be the tallest person on the planet, due to thier perception. So this results in a powerful explosion of love leading to step two (the former can become step two as well, however it is precarious). Step two is expression, as mentioned above. Step three is peace which can be flanked on either side of the time by passion, one regressing in and out of passion and peace, as it was in my case. Step three is usually marked by slowing down and getting into a routine, the two start to rythmatise to one another and get a flow going. This is a delicate flow though and many problems can occur in this stage (which usually ends in divorces and break ups, if step two hasn't claimed them). So there is mature and immature step threes in that the immature three's peace is more of a ceasefire or an armistace between two seperate hearts and if one adds a repelling agent inbetween them, they can break apart. The mature step threes are ones who have naturally fallen in line. They can still be ripped apart yes, however it is possible for them to fall naturally back into synch in most cases, leading to the old married couples that are still happy and in synch. Of course immature step threes can last but in the later years it is marked by alot of bickering and fighting or unrest. This can be seen in the example of frank and marie from everybody loves raymond. This is that concept of partners being of one flesh (one heart).

What I am looking for is the step four, which is what was mentioned all of earlier. From my musings thus far I believe it to be a key, a perfect comprimise between passion and peace, passion denoting fiery love and the power of attraction and peace denoting maturity and calmness. So to gain this we must externalise the love, we cannot hold it within us because we are finite, but if we let the world around us have it then we can draw love from all and everywhere. We have let go of the condenced ball of passion, but now our souce of love comes from all around us and we have a continuous and powerful flow of love coursing through us at all times, we becomes translucent and it flows through us, we become apart of the stream and flow of love. This is raw love, we do not have to save love for one or another, but rather the love flows fully and for all, however how we distribute it is indeed up to us, thus meaning that our partners would recieve a greater share of love. However this does not mean that others are lesser, it is the same love, and love is love. It is essence breathed into us and is bounced between us all the time, we have the feeling for awhile and then it disappears. But with this we feel the passion of consuming love with the peace and tranquility of release. This is where another concept of christianity is answered for me. I see from the life of Jesus and from the teachings that the greatest form of love is forgiveness. When one is at peace we do not feel angry but we aren't neccesarily forgiving. And when we are just passion then it turns quickly to hatred. But when you combine the rational, calm and stable mind of peace with the motivation and will of passion then you get forgiveness in it's pure form. Turn the other cheek, forgive me lord for my trespasses as I forgive those that tresspass against me, these are all concepts of gaining forgiveness for forgiveness, were we being led to this concept all along?

Is forgiveness a sign of a higher form of love?. Jesus showed his love through sacrifice in which by doing so forgave all of thier trespasses, so the concept must be true (if you do not personally believe Jesus was the sacrifice then just humor me). So this is why the christian concept of charity is literally "love". I see now, love is the key to everything, if we are all connected in the continual giving and recieving of this pure love then we gain peace and passion to make things better and to follow the ways of Jesus who was the ultimate in love. To become christ-like, to carry his cross is to carry the burden of love in a world that tries to stop love right down to our hearts. That is the concept of persecution, not for faith but for love, which is the keystone in it all, thus percieved as the attack on the faith. The peace and love gives birth to the ability to forgive which means that old scars and trespasses are forgiven, leading the way to new relations, meaning that all brothers and sisters become equal not only in sin but in love and thus we counteract sin, love becomes unified and fights back against sin, cleansing hearts and bringing happiness to the world.

Thus war will stop and we will have stability to grow the world. This is where the concept of "The man who has two tunics is to give one of his tunics to one who dosen't" comes into play. This is the concept of giving, the distribution of wealth, creating an almost communist like world, where we bring all to the same level economically. And considering we love all the flaw of communism - motivation becomes null and void because we will do what needs to be done because we love our brethren and want to help.And from here many other concepts come into play and the ideal world that was intended becomes a reality. I believe this is the course of events that will take place after the second coming.

To those who are not particularily religious or disagree with the political statements I made I do apologise I was just following through with the concepts as best as I can
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,487 Posts
There is a poster on here names AGAPE....that sort of sums up 'higher love' for me.

Definition of AGAPE:

agape - selfless love of one person for another without sexual implications (especially love that is spiritual in nature)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
“Perfect love casts out fear. Where there is love there are no demands, no expectations, no dependency. I do not demand that you make me happy; my happiness does not lie in you. If you were to leave me, I will not feel sorry for myself; I enjoy your company immensely, but I do not cling.”
― Anthony de Mello, Awareness


You put some thought into this :p. I agree to a certain extend to most of the things you wrote here. Some randoms thoughts of my own that think could enrich your search for a concept of a higher love:

-Love is a state of being. That incorporate compassion and humility with no fear and delusion. With it you accept and see things as they truly are.
-Love is not personal nor specific. Because it is something that you are and it is reflected in all your actions and interactions with others and yourself.
-Your 3 stages reminds me of the 3 stages of love that anthropologist Helen Fisher for romantic love: lust-attraction-attachment. Here she talks about romantic love in specific.
-A few thousands years ago all living societies were egalitarian. There was not such a thing as personal property or concentration of resources. People share everything. It was a perfect communist utopia. The number of inhabitants in that time per tribe were around 150. Everyone knew who everyone was and because of that there were no cheaters. Communist is feasible on small societies. In big societies there is always a concentration of resources in a few people and people get away with it, because there is anonymity. Agriculture was the game changer for civilization, it change humanity for good and bad.
-Love is what truly everyone seeks, everything else is just a means to an end. Even if you aren't aware of it and its the only thing that brings true satisfaction.
-I read a post about forgiveness and thought that it was very good, think you will get some good ideas from it, here is the link:

Forgiveness: The Healing Gift We Give Ouselves
 
  • Like
Reactions: Killbain and Vaan

·
His Majesty
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
As a Christian it reminds me of 1Corinthians 13:4-8: "*Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, *does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. *It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. *It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
*Love never fails."

It's just a thought. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,545 Posts
a perfect comprimise between passion and peace, passion denoting fiery love and the power of attraction and peace denoting maturity and calmness.
The peace and love gives birth to the ability to forgive which means that old scars and trespasses are forgiven, leading the way to new relations, meaning that all brothers and sisters become equal not only in sin but in love and thus we counteract sin, love becomes unified and fights back against sin, cleansing hearts and bringing happiness to the world.
:) I think you have understood and internalized the transcendent power of love. You are on to something, try to apply it to other things and see what comes up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,643 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
@Killbain - Yes I think that fits pretty well. This was all a follow on about my thought that sex is seen as way too important in todays society in that if one becomes a slave to it then all it is is physical saticfaction of lust. I was thinking that there had to be something more than that (As it is I see sex as just an extention of a deep emotional bond with someone).

@Agape - Hmm i'm not sure if love itself is the state of being, but rather it is a base for a state of being. For example with love(as I described) as a base you gain compassion, tranquility, wisdom and a mixed bag of other traits. So while love is the key feature, I believe it to be more of a foundational aspect. If you think of all the wise people in the world, i'm sure the greatest portion of them are loving in turn. I do agree that everyone seeks love in some form, I just wonder to what level they look for it :(. Also good link, it is true that forgiveness helps oneself as well. If one cannot forgive then their hearts aren't truly at peace, or at least not when they are thinking about it. One cannot go further than a certain point without adressing the issue of forgiveness. If one does not forgive then as the article said, you become bitter but when you are able to forgive, just as in stage 3, you release all of that internalised hatred and you become free ^_^.

@The King Of Dreams - yes that's another good verse there, it seems to be illustrating more points and markers to show what love is and isn't so one can know if they are on the right track or not

@MoonLight - thank you ^_^, as I learn more about the Faith I will be able to apply it to more things and likewise with the world.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
-A few thousands years ago all living societies were egalitarian. There was not such a thing as personal property or concentration of resources. People share everything. It was a perfect communist utopia. The number of inhabitants in that time per tribe were around 150. Everyone knew who everyone was and because of that there were no cheaters. Communist is feasible on small societies. In big societies there is always a concentration of resources in a few people and people get away with it, because there is anonymity. Agriculture was the game changer for civilization, it change humanity for good and bad.
Finally, a sensible view of communism that I can agree with. :)

There is a video I watched, by Swami Kriyananda who has founded communities similar to what you've described. They're not "cults" as some might hastily conclude... they're sort of a modern version of the hippie communes founded in the 60's. In fact, I think his first community began about that time, but it sustained and thrived because it's founded on the principle of love. Since then, the communities have branched out to other nations in Europe and Asia.

In this video, he addresses both the nature of love and the principles upon which to base such a community as you described.


----
Respond to the OP:

But when you combine the rational, calm and stable mind of peace with the motivation and will of passion then you get forgiveness in it's pure form. Turn the other cheek, forgive me lord for my trespasses as I forgive those that tresspass against me, these are all concepts of gaining forgiveness for forgiveness, were we being led to this concept all along?
Jesus did preach the truest love, unconditional love, without attachment. Attachments/desires are what separate us from this love. This is God's love.

I think it's possible to have a romantic relationship based on that love. "Possible" is key because it's fraught with difficulty. A lesser form of love, is conditional love. This love may be very powerful, and utterly engross and attach you to a dear partner of yours.

What if your partner cheats on you? What if they leave you? What if they hurt you terribly? How do you reconcile your jealousy, anger, and love for them?

My answer to the problem is that my love was wrong in the first place. I loved with attachment and condition. God had to teach me the lesson of unconditional love, which is a love for him, first and foremost. With God's love in my heart, I feel love for everyone.

If I were to have another partner, I would endeavor to love them as I love a stranger on the street. Not that I would succeed, but I would try. I don't think most women want that love, it's not something society is generally familiar with. Plus, I can't guarantee my ability to remain detached. As such, it's spiritually safer to not marry.

PS - I will just add that for brief moments, I have felt large portions of God's love and it makes any wordily love seem petty in comparison. 15 seconds of divine bliss surpasses the most love I could ever feel for a woman.
 

·
His Majesty
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
@The King Of Dreams - yes that's another good verse there, it seems to be illustrating more points and markers to show what love is and isn't so one can know if they are on the right track or not
As a believer in Creation, the Scriptures say "God IS love" so that tells me that everything created (trees, flowers, cells, DNA, stars, fish, planets and humans) are products of love... Love is harmony and unity..... a link in the chain of life. I hope I made sense.
 

·
Registered
Infj
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
I feel that there is more beyond the surface of love, lets follow the sequence
Passion of love - early
Peace and love - late
Combination?
Something more?
I’m going to answer this paragraph by paragraph, lol because it would probably take me 3 hours to write a full on huge paper about this. This is a VERY interesting subject you put up here, :D I love studying religion (I’m from the LDS church, so I’m Christian) and I love learning about how to become a better person. One of the best ways to do that is to learn how God loves.

Oh don’t be sorry for putting in a Christian perspective, because that perspective seems severely lacking in these forums.
Anyways, I’ll give in some input to what you’re saying. 


“I feel that there is more beyond the surface of love, lets follow the sequence
Passion of love - early
Peace and love - late
Combination?
Something more?”

Well have you noticed that after infatuation leaves the relationship, people start to either love each other more or argue more? Lol. It happens in all relationships, there’s usually a turning point.

1. Short term attraction- infatuation (usually people’s heads are in the clouds, thinking their partner is perfect, doesn’t see any imperfection in partner) This usually lasts for 6 months to 2 years.

(There are so many different types of love that happen in a relationship, I won’t cover them all but I’ll summarize)

2. Love- I’m not exactly sure what to call this, but this is what I would consider most couples that have if they’ve stayed with each other. They’re reasonable, able to communicate with each other, willing to work for each other, still selfish desires but still want partner to be happy. This love can go for better or for worse. For example
A.) a negative form of this love would turn into a lot of blame games, arguments, and could eventually turn into hatred.
B.) A positive form of this love would only get you closer to having Godly love for your partner.
3. Godly love- Charity- Corinthians 13:4-8
“4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth”


That fourth type of love you're looking for is the next level, the higher level of love. Charity.
 

·
Registered
Infj
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Charity is the love that God loves us with. God always loves us no matter what we do. Okay I think this excerpt from this talk will explain this a lot better than I can…

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
“The Love of God
Is this difficult to do?
Yes, of course.
Forgiving ourselves and others is not easy. In fact, for most of us it requires a major change in our attitude and way of thinking—even a change of heart. But there is good news. This “mighty change”8 of heart is exactly what the gospel of Jesus Christ is designed to bring into our lives.
How is it done? Through the love of God.
When our hearts are filled with the love of God, something good and pure happens to us. We “keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world.”9
The more we allow the love of God to govern our minds and emotions—the more we allow our love for our Heavenly Father to swell within our hearts—the easier it is to love others with the pure love of Christ. As we open our hearts to the glowing dawn of the love of God, the darkness and cold of animosity and envy will eventually fade.
As always, Christ is our exemplar. In His teachings as in His life, He showed us the way. He forgave the wicked, the vulgar, and those who sought to hurt and to do Him harm.
Jesus said it is easy to love those who love us; even the wicked can do that. But Jesus Christ taught a higher law. His words echo through the centuries and are meant for us today. They are meant for all who desire to be His disciples. They are meant for you and me: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”10
When our hearts are filled with the love of God, we become “kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving [each other], even as God for Christ’s sake [forgave us].”11
The pure love of Christ can remove the scales of resentment and wrath from our eyes, allowing us to see others the way our Heavenly Father sees us: as flawed and imperfect mortals who have potential and worth far beyond our capacity to imagine. Because God loves us so much, we too must love and forgive each other.
The Way of the Disciple
My dear brothers and sisters, consider the following questions as a self-test:
Do you harbor a grudge against someone else?
Do you gossip, even when what you say may be true?
Do you exclude, push away, or punish others because of something they have done?
Do you secretly envy another?
Do you wish to cause harm to someone?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may want to apply the two-word sermon from earlier: stop it!
In a world of accusations and unfriendliness, it is easy to gather and cast stones. But before we do so, let us remember the words of the One who is our Master and model: “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.”12
Brothers and sisters, let us put down our stones.
Let us be kind.
Let us forgive.
Let us talk peacefully with each other.
Let the love of God fill our hearts.
“Let us do good unto all men.”13
The Savior promised: “Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over. … For with the same measure that [you use] it shall be measured to you again.”14
Shouldn’t this promise be enough to always focus our efforts on acts of kindness, forgiveness, and charity instead of on any negative behavior?
Let us, as disciples of Jesus Christ, return good for evil.15 Let us not seek revenge or allow our wrath to overcome us.
“For it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
“Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink. …
“Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.”16
Remember: in the end, it is the merciful who obtain mercy.17
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, wherever we may be, let us be known as a people who “have love one to another.”18
Love One Another
Brothers and sisters, there is enough heartache and sorrow in this life without our adding to it through our own stubbornness, bitterness, and resentment.
We are not perfect.
The people around us are not perfect.19 People do things that annoy, disappoint, and anger. In this mortal life it will always be that way.
Nevertheless, we must let go of our grievances. Part of the purpose of mortality is to learn how to let go of such things. That is the Lord’s way.
Remember, heaven is filled with those who have this in common: They are forgiven. And they forgive.
Lay your burden at the Savior’s feet. Let go of judgment. Allow Christ’s Atonement to change and heal your heart. Love one another. Forgive one another.
The merciful will obtain mercy.
Of this I testify in the name of the One who loved so well and so completely that He gave His life for us, His friends—in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
The Merciful Obtain Mercy- Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The Merciful Obtain Mercy - general-conference
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
This seems like text-festival of debating what the word love entails, despite the overwhelming obviousness of how it is a subjective matter. And thus, a higher love depends on the faulty notion of there being a standard for some 'lower' love, or any love. I gave up on reading after affirming that you're just presenting your own arbitrary measurements as a standard upon which we're supposed to help you do research.

I'm not feelin the love.
 

·
His Majesty
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
This seems like text-festival of debating what the word love entails, despite the overwhelming obviousness of how it is a subjective matter. And thus, a higher love depends on the faulty notion of there being a standard for some 'lower' love, or any love. I gave up on reading after affirming that you're just presenting your own arbitrary measurements as a standard upon which we're supposed to help you do research.

I'm not feelin the love.


Do you feel it now?!
 

·
His Majesty
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
If it comes from a sincere place, as I initially assumed, then yes :) Very much so!
Don't worry, it does! I feel that love should be displayed to everyone because we are all fellow humans. Why should one get loved and another is deprived of it?
 

·
His Majesty
Joined
·
12,625 Posts
Preachin to the choirrrr but go onnnnnnnnnn, I loooooooooooooooooove the love gospel. You got me all riled up and lovey now.
LOL.... I'm just saying what I learned... As a human, we all need and DESERVE love from one another. I don't want to sound too preachy though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,643 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Respond to the OP:

Jesus did preach the truest love, unconditional love, without attachment. Attachments/desires are what separate us from this love. This is God's love.

I think it's possible to have a romantic relationship based on that love. "Possible" is key because it's fraught with difficulty. A lesser form of love, is conditional love. This love may be very powerful, and utterly engross and attach you to a dear partner of yours.

What if your partner cheats on you? What if they leave you? What if they hurt you terribly? How do you reconcile your jealousy, anger, and love for them?

My answer to the problem is that my love was wrong in the first place. I loved with attachment and condition. God had to teach me the lesson of unconditional love, which is a love for him, first and foremost. With God's love in my heart, I feel love for everyone.

If I were to have another partner, I would endeavor to love them as I love a stranger on the street. Not that I would succeed, but I would try. I don't think most women want that love, it's not something society is generally familiar with. Plus, I can't guarantee my ability to remain detached. As such, it's spiritually safer to not marry.

PS - I will just add that for brief moments, I have felt large portions of God's love and it makes any wordily love seem petty in comparison. 15 seconds of divine bliss surpasses the most love I could ever feel for a woman.
I think i should make a note that with relationships, I wouldn't so much call it conditional love but romantic love. In such case it is meant to be a union before God in that the two are a partnership worshipping God (Or something along those lines, I believe @The King Of Dreams would know more about that scripturally than I). So just as before the main focal point is to put God first and all other things will fall into place (not saying there wont be tribulations, just that it is a solid network for any relationship).

Romantic love is merely going from a bretheren love to a romantic love, with marriage etc being a bonding between the two, not a condition.

or alternatively if you mean that we put conditions on the love such as you aren't allowed to cheat etc, I would not say that lessens the love, considering the bible puts restrictions and tells what is right and wrong within marriage. But even without that we still put terms on our love for anyone on the street. For example if you show love and give to someone on the street and then they go and spend it on drugs etc that could make you feel upset or hurt in the same way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,643 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
This seems like text-festival of debating what the word love entails, despite the overwhelming obviousness of how it is a subjective matter. And thus, a higher love depends on the faulty notion of there being a standard for some 'lower' love, or any love. I gave up on reading after affirming that you're just presenting your own arbitrary measurements as a standard upon which we're supposed to help you do research.

I'm not feelin the love.
Most of it is just my observations of humans and the progression of love. And what I did insinuate was just based on the idea that multiple forms of love connected are better than just one.

As for subjective I think not. If you believe in the scientific form of love then all love is is a chemical reaction to particular traits or pheremones that induces sexula, emotional or mental reactions. This is scientifically objective. The terms of love are subjective (I.E traits), but the base of what love is is not.

If you believe in the philosophical or religious form of love then that becomes spiritually objective in that what love is is determined by a higher source, therefore objective.

As for feeling the love this is love theory, not application :p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,643 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Damn double posts >_>. Ugh so many posts in a row, I have committed a PerC sin :S
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top