[Manipulater]

So lately I have been questioning whether I'm an INTJ or INTP. Can someone please list the differences?

Thanks in advance.

 

[midnightblonde]

In terms of cognitive functions:

INTJ: Ni - Te - Fi - Se

INTP: Ti - Ne - Si - Fe

Is your primary function introverted thinking (Ti) or introverted intuition (Ni)?

Are you more process-focused (INTP) or goal-oriented (INTJ)?

 

[Manipulater]

I'm more goal oriented which i suppose makes me an INTJ.

Thanks, midnightblonde.

 

[amnorvend]

In terms of cognitive functions:

INTJ: Ni - Te - Fi - Se

INTP: Ti - Ne - Si - Fe

Is your primary function introverted thinking (Ti) or introverted intuition (Ni)?

Are you more process-focused (INTP) or goal-oriented (INTJ)?

I think that's an oversimplification, and might be misleading. First thing to remember: J doesn't necessarily mean that a person is primarily a judger. It means that they're judgers in dealing with the outside world. INTJs are first and foremost perceivers while INTPs are first and foremost judgers. Goals are entirely a judging thing. Perceiving functions just don't have any concept of them.

If anything, I would argue that an INTP is more goal-oriented than an INTJ. It's just that their goals are internally-focused and therefore not as apparent to the outside world.

I think better questions would be:

When you're daydreaming/introverting/pondering/whatever would you say that you find yourself considering what can logically be proven (INTP) or do you find yourself considering what can only be imagined (INTJ)?

Would you be more inclined to agree that there's a singular truth (INTP) or that truth is an arbitrary construct that's relative to a person's point of view (INTJ)?

 

[Van]

When you're daydreaming/introverting/pondering/whatever would you say that you find yourself considering what can logically be proven (INTP) or do you find yourself considering what can only be imagined (INTJ)?

Would you be more inclined to agree that there's a singular truth (INTP) or that truth is an arbitrary construct that's relative to a person's point of view (INTJ)?

Oh man, now you're making me doubt my type...

 

[Espiculeas]

I shall refer you to this handy guide...

INTJ vs INTP: A Guide - Typology Central

 

[amnorvend]

Oh man, now you're making me doubt my type...

That's probably good, but don't go too far. A lot of what INTPs might consider intuition is actually introverted thinking. When you hear about "goals", you're probably thinking about it in J terms. Probably something like "By October 23, I'm going to accomplish x, y, and z". The idea of verbalizing your goals and measuring them by something external like a date is what Te does. In fact, the act of labeling that statement with the word "goal" is Te. All the judging functions are responsible for setting goals and charting courses of action. It's just more apparent with some.

Think about a basketball player. You might not initially think they use a lot of Ti, but they do. I mean, imagine how ridiculous it might be to use Te: "Within the next 5 minutes, I will score 3 field goals and 1 3 point shot." Instead, they tend to define goals based on how they view things internally. Things like "I need to make a goal now" or "I need to pass the ball to player x at some point". These are still goals, it's just that when you use Ti you're less concerned with making them verbalizable or even attaching the word "goal" to them. Thus, a lot of people who use Ti won't realize that they're making goals and creating plans. They are; they're just not concerned with attaching the word "goal" or "plan" to what they're doing.

 

[midnightblonde]

I think that's an oversimplification, and might be misleading. First thing to remember: J doesn't necessarily mean that a person is primarily a judger. It means that they're judgers in dealing with the outside world. INTJs are first and foremost perceivers while INTPs are first and foremost judgers. Goals are entirely a judging thing. Perceiving functions just don't have any concept of them.

Well the intended goal was to simplify the distinction to help in the common "J or P" dilemma, and was by no means meant to be all-encompassing list, just a start.

Could you make clearer what you mean exactly with "INTJs are first and foremost perceivers while INTPs are first and foremost judgers." ? Are you referring to Ni being the INTJ primary function vs. Ti being the primary function for INTPs?

If anything, I would argue that an INTP is more goal-oriented than an INTJ. It's just that their goals are internally-focused and therefore not as apparent to the outside world.

It's not a matter of who's more goal-oriented overall, but of which part (process for INTP or conclusion/closure/goal for INTJ) each type enjoys and focuses more on. There was a thread discussing it here on PerC though I can't seem to find it anymore.

I think better questions would be:

When you're daydreaming/introverting/pondering/whatever would you say that you find yourself considering what can logically be proven (INTP) or do you find yourself considering what can only be imagined (INTJ)?

I'm confused by this question. Is this again meant to be a way of probing if one prefers to use Ti or Ni?

Would you be more inclined to agree that there's a singular truth (INTP) or that truth is an arbitrary construct that's relative to a person's point of view (INTJ)?

Wot? INTJs are subjectivists ? Where did you get that from?

 

[amnorvend]

Well the intended goal was to simplify the distinction to help in the common "J or P" dilemma, and was by no means meant to be all-encompassing list, just a start.

Could you make clearer what you mean exactly with "INTJs are first and foremost perceivers while INTPs are first and foremost judgers." ? Are you referring to Ni being the INTJ primary function vs. Ti being the primary function for INTPs?

Yup. That's exactly what I meant. We tend to think of it as being the other way around simply because the side we see on the outside is different.

It's not a matter of who's more goal-oriented overall, but of which part (process for INTP or conclusion/closure/goal for INTJ) each type enjoys and focuses more on. There was a thread discussing it here on PerC though I can't seem to find it anymore.

Sorry, I just don't see it. I don't see INTPs as being more process-oriented.

I'm confused by this question. Is this again meant to be a way of probing if one prefers to use Ti or Ni?

Yes.

Wot? INTJs are subjectivists ? Where did you get that from?

It is possible that I didn't phrase the question very well. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. :happy:

That said, all Introverted types are subjective. Types like INTJ and INTP are likely to confuse their impersonality with objectivity. Allow me to explain.

Lenore Thomson (an INTJ) tells a story (which she admits is probably apocryphal) that she claims is typical of INTJs. See, the Catholic church did everything it could to stamp out all of Galileo's teachings at one point. Sailors noticed that Galileo's teachings helped them navigate better though. So they wrote the Catholic church for an answer as to what to do. The Catholic church wants to rid the world of Galileo's teachings, but they're also a money-hungry organization. They are hesitant to do anything that will interfere with trade. So the response they send back essentially says "Ok, if Galileo's teachings are useful use them. Just don't believe them."

You can see the rest of her description here. At any rate, the point is that INTJs have a tendency to not accept any singular truth. They'll just go whichever version of it is the most practical. They're not going to go with the socially accepted version of the truth though.

An INTP on the other hand will view the truth as singular although they may not even realize it themselves. As I explained elsewhere in this thread, labeling an idea "the truth" is a function of Te not Ti. For instance, you'll notice that Einstein talked a great deal about God. However, it is very clear that he wasn't talking about the Christian or Jewish God. What he was probably talking about was some universal system of truth. The INTP is usually going to be on a quest for the truth. In fact, think of the two best fictional examples of INTPs: House and Sherlock Holmes. Their goals are to find truth, and they're good at doing so.

It's more difficult to see how this is subjective, but it is. An INTP is wont to eschew socially accepted means of finding the truth. They'll grant others their own view of reality. It's just that others' views are probably wrong. :tongue:

 

[CrabHammer]

In fact, think of the two best fictional examples of INTPs: House and Sherlock Holmes.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of INTJs that won't give up Sherlock Holmes (or probably House either) without a fight.

The sort of issue you are discussing here is something that is likely always going to be difficult to distinguish in introverts. All introverts have a primary function that is opposite their MBTI Judging/Perceiving dichotomy. Because of this, it takes a good amount of introspection to figure out which you are.

In the particular case of INTJ vs INTP, I usually have an easier time examining Ni vs Ne. My descriptions are often lacking, but I'll offer them as a place to start at least. Ni tends to see one complete picture. Ni users jump easily from step to step and seemingly already know the outcome of certain events before they've happened. Ne tends to see all of the possible next steps. Ne users like to examine a situation from every possible angle and rarely come across an option they haven't considered. Once again, you'd probably be better served looking for more complete descriptions of Ni and Ne, but that is at least where I would start thinking about it.

 

[Manipulater]

After reading about Ne, Ni, Te, and Ti I have come to the conclusion I am an INTJ.

Thanks for your help everyone, appreciate it.

 

[Ti Dominant]

I think that's an oversimplification, and might be misleading. First thing to remember: J doesn't necessarily mean that a person is primarily a judger. It means that they're judgers in dealing with the outside world. INTJs are first and foremost perceivers while INTPs are first and foremost judgers. Goals are entirely a judging thing. Perceiving functions just don't have any concept of them.

If anything, I would argue that an INTP is more goal-oriented than an INTJ. It's just that their goals are internally-focused and therefore not as apparent to the outside world.

I think better questions would be:

When you're daydreaming/introverting/pondering/whatever would you say that you find yourself considering what can logically be proven (INTP) or do you find yourself considering what can only be imagined (INTJ)?

Would you be more inclined to agree that there's a singular truth (INTP) or that truth is an arbitrary construct that's relative to a person's point of view (INTJ)?

I think it's clearly obvious that the person you were responding to meant that INTJ's are Judgers according to the outside world and that INTP's are Perceivers according to the outside world. What either type is internally matters less, Judging and Perceiving preferences deal primarily with the outside world, rather than the inner world. Thus, the critical distinction between the J and P is whether or not the externalized function is a judging or perceiving one.

For INTP's, the externalized function is Ne (a Perceiving function). For INTJ's, the externalized function is Te (a Judging function). Thus, INTJ's are outwardly seen as goal-oriented. INTP's are outwardly seen as relaxed and flexible.

That an INTP's main function is a Judging function means nothing in terms of whether or not an INTP is perceived as as a Judger or Perceiver. That an INTJ's main function is a Perceiving function means nothing in terms of whether or not an INTJ is perceived as a Judger or Perceiver.

It's all about the outside world when you look at "Lifestyle" preference (J/P).

I also think your questions are a little mistaken.
INTP's enjoy logically playing with ideas and finding structures and principles that may not be applied.
INTJ's enjoy serious theory and actually finding practical solutions to problems that they can apply.

Your questions seem a little confused about INTP/INTJ differences.

 

[Ti Dominant]

After reading about Ne, Ni, Te, and Ti I have come to the conclusion I am an INTJ.

Thanks for your help everyone, appreciate it.

Good to know.

 

[Trainwreck]

This thread has caused me some confusion. I'm still fairly certain I'm INTP; however, I may be a weaker one seeing as my introversion and perception scores are at 63%. Could this allow for varying degrees of INTP/J-ness? I mean what does that mean for my functions? Do I kinda use Ti/Te and Ni/Ne? Because there are definitely a lot of things I have in common with INTJ, and I've even tested a weak INTJ in some of the tests. I'm certain I'm a Ti dominant person, but I feel like I can do more than just ruminate, and do it well. I'm such a versatile person it's not even funny. Everyone who knows me thinks that I'm like a cock-roach, that you can't kill me, and I'll survive anything and just be happy fantasizing in my own head.

 

[Unbekannt]

The simplest difference I've found is that INTJs are angrier and more stubborn.

 

[minavanhelsing]

The simplest difference I've found is that INTJs are angrier and more stubborn.

Hear, hear! xD I know two confirmed INTJs (a male and female) and three INTPs (one male and two females, including myself), and I've found that both INTJs are much more direct and quick to criticize others, even if they come across as "mean" or "abrasive". It's a lot harder to sit down next to them than the INTPs, because they're kind of intimidating. On the other hand, they're generally very respected and people tend to seek their approval.

On the other hand, all three of us INTPs absolutely despise conflict; we try to be a little nicer and tend to be vague when we have to criticize others to their faces. We're all quiet, but a bit more "friendly" and "approachable" in a social setting than the INTJs--not because we like people more (I know for a fact that at least two of us are inwardly very annoyed by stupid, tedious people) but because we just don't feel as comfortable and confident with being direct and abrasive as the INTJs do, and we don't want to make enemies or conflict situations. I don't think the INTJs care as much about enemies or conflict situations. One of them asked if he should be nicer to people--but that was more because he was concerned about making his staff efficient than creating a warmer atmosphere.

Source: Research on five subjects. Does this hold true for INTPs and INTJs in general?

 

[amnorvend]

Hear, hear! xD I know two confirmed INTJs (a male and female) and three INTPs (one male and two females, including myself), and I've found that both INTJs are much more direct and quick to criticize others, even if they come across as "mean" or "abrasive". It's a lot harder to sit down next to them than the INTPs, because they're kind of intimidating. On the other hand, they're generally very respected and people tend to seek their approval.

On the other hand, all three of us INTPs absolutely despise conflict; we try to be a little nicer and tend to be vague when we have to criticize others to their faces. We're all quiet, but a bit more "friendly" and "approachable" in a social setting than the INTJs--not because we like people more (I know for a fact that at least two of us are inwardly very annoyed by stupid, tedious people) but because we just don't feel as comfortable and confident with being direct and abrasive as the INTJs do, and we don't want to make enemies or conflict situations. I don't think the INTJs care as much about enemies or conflict situations. One of them asked if he should be nicer to people--but that was more because he was concerned about making his staff efficient than creating a warmer atmosphere.

Source: Research on five subjects. Does this hold true for INTPs and INTJs in general?

This actually makes sense if you buy Beebe's idea that the inferior function sets your overarching goals. INTPs have inferior Fe, so they tend to aim for having an environment without any personal conflict (intellectual conflict is something else entirely). INTJs have inferior Se, which means they will focus on getting concrete observable results.

 

[geGamedev]

I think better questions would be:

When you're daydreaming/introverting/pondering/whatever would you say that you find yourself considering what can logically be proven (INTP) or do you find yourself considering what can only be imagined (INTJ)?

Would you be more inclined to agree that there's a singular truth (INTP) or that truth is an arbitrary construct that's relative to a person's point of view (INTJ)?

Where were you when I was questioning my INTJ/INTPness?? INTJ fits me far far better than INTP. Even INFP is a much better fit than INTP...

Hear, hear! xD I know two confirmed INTJs (a male and female) and three INTPs (one male and two females, including myself), and I've found that both INTJs are much more direct and quick to criticize others, even if they come across as "mean" or "abrasive". It's a lot harder to sit down next to them than the INTPs, because they're kind of intimidating. On the other hand, they're generally very respected and people tend to seek their approval.

On the other hand, all three of us INTPs absolutely despise conflict; we try to be a little nicer and tend to be vague when we have to criticize others to their faces. We're all quiet, but a bit more "friendly" and "approachable" in a social setting than the INTJs--not because we like people more (I know for a fact that at least two of us are inwardly very annoyed by stupid, tedious people) but because we just don't feel as comfortable and confident with being direct and abrasive as the INTJs do, and we don't want to make enemies or conflict situations. I don't think the INTJs care as much about enemies or conflict situations. One of them asked if he should be nicer to people--but that was more because he was concerned about making his staff efficient than creating a warmer atmosphere.

Ok, I'll stop thinking about which type I am. It always goes back and forth... I'll stick with function order and adjust as my understanding of them improves. For now, I'll just say I'm IN and definitely not INFJ... Unless I'm a mutant INFJ, which might be interesting actually. =)

 

[mnemonicfx]

I am confused quite often, because I adjust P/J according to a particular situation.
Overall, I'm inclined to behave like a P.

 

[Isis]

Very interesting... if I am reading this correctly, I am an INTP when I am tired and an INTJ when I am well-rested.