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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you guys really love secrets?...that's the gist or theme of these articles and charts...

Secret Agent (confidentiality): Security in relationship gained by exchanged confidential secrets. May seem mysterious or compelling; can draw special others into their inner sanctum. There may be a big rift between sexual self & outer self. May be true monastics if focus is spiritual. Tend to compartmentalize relationships.


Spy, Sleuth, Alchemist, Scientist, Mad Scientist, Investigator, Private Detective, Undercover Operative, Behind-the-scenes Internet Wizard, Chat Room Enthusiast, Chess Player, Private Tutor, Secret Photographer, Exchanger of Confidences, Weirdo Voyeur, Secret Society Member, Wizard of Oz

Socionics - the16types.info - Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes


Maybe that's overdone. I have heard avarice shows up with Sx fives in that they only have "juice" for one intimate. Is that true?

For any SX fives, what is your experience with your dominant variant? Another example...

All of the intimate styles tend to gravitate to one-on-one relationships. In the case of the intimate Five, the relationship is often one of shared secrecy. It's you and me against or at least without the rest of the world.In the case of the intimate Five, part of the focus on the partner is parsimony. "I only have enough emotional juice for one person." The other person becomes the focus of attention, but also the only place to put the precious resource of time and affection. There is not much, so they don't waste it on anybody other than the chosen one.Because Fives live in their head (remember Descartes, "I think, therefore I am") a primary way of showing affection is sharing secrets. While everyone else in the world is kept at arms length and privacy is an obsession, Fives can share everything with this one person.Sometimes sharing information can actually replace sexual intimacy. Sex, Lies and Videotape is an old movie that has stood the test of time. It may seem a bit kinky to some because James Spader plays an intimate Five who substitutes video taping girls talking about sex but does not have sex with them. The movie is an Enneagram clinic and Spader nails the dynamic of an intimate subtype Five.Fives have a general fear of being overwhelmed by the demands of others. They are acutely aware of their emotional poverty, feeling unable to meet the expectations and desires of others. So when an intimate Five falls in love, there is often an accompanying fear of being owned. The relationship can feel like a contract with terms they can't meet.Like everyone, Fives want to be loved, but they also fear being loved because they understand that love and affection can only be repaid by love and affection. Their central fear is around the difficulty of adequate emotional response.However, if an intimate Five can become confident of their ability to respond, then they can make wonderful spouses and lovers because they focus all their attention on the one they love. Like someone on a strict budget, they do not waste their resources on impulse or adventure.
 

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I don't know if I'd say I love secrets so much as I love being the primary, preferred confidant of my partner and want him to be same for me. And if he betrays that confidence, it's absolutely devastating to me. I seem to take it much harder than most other people I know. I never, and I mean never, really get over that kind of breach of trust. A partner breaking my confidence by sharing intimate, personal details about me with others -- the kind he knows I want kept between us -- incites a very similar kind of emotional response in me that sexual infidelity would.

I like the "no one knows either of us better than we know each other" dynamic. Like he's the only person who knows my "secret" self that I don't fully show anyone else, and I want to be the same for him. I don't know if I'm wording this well, but hopefully the gist of what I'm saying is coming across.

When I'm in love with someone, I'm wholly committed to and invested in him, not quite to the exclusion of everyone else, but close. Only my children will merit the same degree of devotion from me, and only a very few dear friends will come close to it. This tendency of mine to go "all in" does seem to be a factor in my attracting the wrong kind of partner, though. It takes me some time to go there, but once I do, it's hard for me to extricate myself from it if it becomes exploitative.

I've never found that sharing information replaces sexual intimacy for me, like it apparently does for some, though. I can't relate to that at all. I need the intensity of connection that comes with both sex and sharing confidences, and each seems to enhance the other for me.
 

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I have recently been considering the idea that "most people who are 5's are not really 5's," as they are a rare type. Thus, I may not be a 5. However I still relate a lot to the 5 descriptions, and have yet to do further research. So a 5 I am, for now ;)

This being said, I relate to some of this synopsis. I definitely become confident with someone I trust rather quickly (and often trust way too easily), and feel I make a great partner/lover. But I've never had a partner I have really been comfortable with on a level which I could share my secrets (so to speak). I also consider "sharing my secrets" to be metaphorical, and for me (as an INTP) much more on an emotional level. For instance, I may not share with her my feelings of despair on the very rare occasions I have them.

My secrets are also often unknown or secret to me as well, as I've not truly stopped to analyze a lot of my own feelings in life.
 

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I don't think much about secrets. I think most 5's aren't consciously secretive, but either don't think to share things that other types share or don't realize how exclusively they share things with only one or two people. I would say I feel more that I want to be able to share all parts of myself with my partner and know all parts of him - I don't feel like we have secrets, but that he's one of two people I feel safe opening up to. The other is my best friend who I've known for 23 years.

In terms of only having "juice" for one, when I was single I could push myself to be pretty social because I was actively looking for someone who would be a good match for me. Once I became partnered my social life became very closed off. I have a very small group of friends and we're all introverts. Other commitments feel like a chore and not usually worth my time.

I also know I don't open up quickly and I don't think to share certain parts of myself. It takes me years to let my walls down in some regards, while in others, I can be very open right from the start. It's not so much that I don't trust my partner and don't want to share, but it feels physically difficult for me to share my most intimate feelings, especially my intimate feelings for someone else. Part of the fear earlier on was that my feelings would change - I feel like the struggle for me now is more about feeling comfortable giving of myself.

I've never found that sharing information replaces sexual intimacy for me, like it apparently does for some, though. I can't relate to that at all. I need the intensity of connection that comes with both sex and sharing confidences, and each seems to enhance the other for me.
I agree. They're both part of the same experience and one doesn't replace the other for me. Sex is a spiritual experience for me, particularly when its with someone I love.

I feel like I need a more specific question to answer...
 

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Maybe I do only have enough juice for one person. I just recently started "dating" [or whatever] a few people at a time. It turned into two people because I just didn't feel I had the time/energy to go on a date with the third potential and just cancelled it. I ended up forgetting about one of the others, just not seeing him much. Like I forgot to make effort to communicate with him even textually. As that guy seemed to lose interest, most likely at least partly from my lack of communication, I felt very relieved. I don't see how people can do this! Ugh. Too much to keep up with for me. I found myself just wishing to be alone.
 

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I don't consider myself secretive, but if I think about it as an outside observer, I certainly am. I don't share my inner world with anyone, for the most part. As far as partners go, that main relationship is always the deepest one for me. However, there are certain things I can only say to a friend and not my lover. So... sharing confidences is something that I value deeply, and something I enjoy. There's also something nice, keeping things just for myself.

There's something very comforting, about being understood. Accepted. Especially without having to say much of anything, but someone knows you well enough to gauge your reaction.
 

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I'm going to break ranks here and say that I absolutely do consciously maintain secrecy. Though I will say that it's not like I just think secrets are fun. My secrecy is a function of necessity. I effortlessly maintain an outward image of impenetrable stoicism, but internally I fear that I am actually extremely sensitive and vulnerable.

For this reason I consciously add more and more defenses. Chief among these defenses are secrecy. The less people know about me, the less they can hurt me. This means remaining detached and never becoming too close. Showing emotions or excessive personal information feels like I'm sending an open invitation for predation from a relentlessly hostile outside world.



The Sx dominance manifests as a constant longing for companionship and closeness. Sharing with a single trusted loved one is not about trading secrets like baseball cards. It's about finally finding someone with whom I can let my guard down. I really really relate to the "us against the world" line.

As I mentioned above, I find the world to be a really big, dangerous place where no one can be trusted and I am never really safe. For me, a trusted life partner would represent the one and only person with whom I could share everything. I could share all of my feelings and strange musings and personal eccentricities knowing that I would not be annihilated by this special person the way I would if I shared these things with anyone else. I would finally have a place to rest my back against and I would provide the same for this person. She would be the one place of safety outside of my own mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't consider myself secretive, but if I think about it as an outside observer, I certainly am. I don't share my inner world with anyone, for the most part. As far as partners go, that main relationship is always the deepest one for me. However, there are certain things I can only say to a friend and not my lover. So... sharing confidences is something that I value deeply, and something I enjoy. There's also something nice, keeping things just for myself.

There's something very comforting, about being understood. Accepted. Especially without having to say much of anything, but someone knows you well enough to gauge your reaction.
So true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have recently been considering the idea that "most people who are 5's are not really 5's," as they are a rare type. Thus, I may not be a 5. However I still relate a lot to the 5 descriptions, and have yet to do further research. So a 5 I am, for now ;)

This being said, I relate to some of this synopsis. I definitely become confident with someone I trust rather quickly (and often trust way too easily), and feel I make a great partner/lover. But I've never had a partner I have really been comfortable with on a level which I could share my secrets (so to speak). I also consider "sharing my secrets" to be metaphorical, and for me (as an INTP) much more on an emotional level. For instance, I may not share with her my feelings of despair on the very rare occasions I have them.

My secrets are also often unknown or secret to me as well, as I've not truly stopped to analyze a lot of my own feelings in life.
Just as a reference point, Naranjo called Sx five the non-five five. I kinda get that with examples like Kurt Cobain (Sx/Sp 5w4)...

Socionics - the16types.info - Naranjo's Subtypes
 

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I'm going to break ranks here and say that I absolutely do consciously maintain secrecy. Though I will say that it's not like I just think secrets are fun. My secrecy is a function of necessity. I effortlessly maintain an outward image of impenetrable stoicism, but internally I fear that I am actually extremely sensitive and vulnerable.

For this reason I consciously add more and more defenses. Chief among these defenses are secrecy. The less people know about me, the less they can hurt me. This means remaining detached and never becoming too close. Showing emotions or excessive personal information feels like I'm sending an open invitation for predation from a relentlessly hostile outside world.



The Sx dominance manifests as a constant longing for companionship and closeness. Sharing with a single trusted loved one is not about trading secrets like baseball cards. It's about finally finding someone with whom I can let my guard down. I really really relate to the "us against the world" line.

As I mentioned above, I find the world to be a really big, dangerous place where no one can be trusted and I am never really safe. For me, a trusted life partner would represent the one and only person with whom I could share everything. I could share all of my feelings and strange musings and personal eccentricities knowing that I would not be annihilated by this special person the way I would if I shared these things with anyone else. I would finally have a place to rest my back against and I would provide the same for this person. She would be the one place of safety outside of my own mind.
I relate to nearly every word of this. The only difference for me is that the "secretive" behavior, which manifests as a sort of guardedness, is largely subconcious and involuntary. I'll occasionally become aware of it in hindsight, but it's my default, self-protective mode, so I can't seem to "turn it off" for the sake of relationships. That's why my relationships can't recover from a significant breach of trust. If someone does manage to wear that wall away and win me over, and then deliberately hurts me, that wall goes back up between us, taller and thicker than before, and there is literally nothing they can do to bring it down again. It's not even a choice for me...I literally CANNOT open up to them again. They are forever categorized in my mind as "demonstrated to be unsafe" and I can't - not won't but can't - trust them again no matter how much I might want to or how hard I try. There's always going to be distance between us, a noticeable detachment on my part, that signals the death of the relationship.

A lesson I learned the hard way, unfortunately. It's a major factor in my having sought out personality theory.

This is an aspect of me that no one in my life seems to understand but for one very dear friend, which is why she's the only person who consistently gives me good advice...the kind that's based on her mostly accurate understanding of me and not a projection of who and how she thinks I should be. It makes me treasure her all the more, and that's part of the reason there's no wall between us. She's the proof to myself that I can actually open up and trust someone implicitly, and I hold onto that whenever I feel like maybe I'm not capable of having and maintaining the kind of connection I mysteriously need so intensely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I relate to nearly every word of this. The only difference for me is that the "secretive" behavior, which manifests as a sort of guardedness, is largely subconcious and involuntary. I'll occasionally become aware of it in hindsight, but it's my default, self-protective mode, so I can't seem to "turn it off" for the sake of relationships. That's why my relationships can't recover from a significant breach of trust. If someone does manage to wear that wall away and win me over, and then deliberately hurts me, that wall goes back up between us, taller and thicker than before, and there is literally nothing they can do to bring it down again. It's not even a choice for me...I literally CANNOT open up to them again. They are forever categorized in my mind as "demonstrated to be unsafe" and I can't - not won't but can't - trust them again no matter how much I might want to or how hard I try. There's always going to be distance between us, a noticeable detachment on my part, that signals the death of the relationship.

A lesson I learned the hard way, unfortunately. It's a major factor in my having sought out personality theory.

This is an aspect of me that no one in my life seems to understand but for one very dear friend, which is why she's the only person who consistently gives me good advice...the kind that's based on her mostly accurate understanding of me and not a projection of who and how she thinks I should be. It makes me treasure her all the more, and that's part of the reason there's no wall between us. She's the proof to myself that I can actually open up and trust someone implicitly, and I hold onto that whenever I feel like maybe I'm not capable of having and maintaining the kind of connection I mysteriously need so intensely.
Just an observation: that sounds so Sx/Sp...boundaries, trust, distance, the whole thing. :kitteh:
 

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Just an observation: that sounds so Sx/Sp...boundaries, trust, distance, the whole thing. :kitteh:
I've struggled for a while with whether I'm sx/sp or sp/sx, but I relate most to what I've read about sx/sp, so I went with that. But there's still that bit of uncertainty there, so this is a really helpful observation. Thank you! =)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've struggled for a while with whether I'm sx/sp or sp/sx, but I relate most to what I've read about sx/sp, so I went with that. But there's still that bit of uncertainty there, so this is a really helpful observation. Thank you! =)
Kool and the Gang - glad my somewhat offhand comment was of service. :happy:

I kept thinking of this as I was reading...mainly the bolded part.

This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don’t want to consider.

With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.
 
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