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Dearest Honorable Sirs --

This thread is for us ENTPs who are pursuing, stalking, observing or otherwise interested in our elusive female INFJ quarries.

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I understand that there are other threads which touch upon this specific topic:
In Hot Pursuit of INFJ Woman
ENTP and INFJ
INFJ + ENTP

But this thread is specifically for ENTP males pursuing INFJ females. This thread also assumes that you've already found an INFJ female and have gotten her number, a first date, or otherwise built some kind of rapport with her.

Therefore, discuss specific tactics and experiences regarding the following:

1. How to get an INFJ female to trust and open up to an ENTP male? (Don't get lazy and just say "patience" -- give me specifics on what you did and how it worked out)

2. How to not get bored/frustrated at INFJ females' glacial pace of opening up?

3. How to remain sensitive to INFJ females but not turn into a total emotional pussy (i.e. stay faithful to our genuine ENTP tendencies)? In other words, what are ways you balance being emotionally sensitive enough to an INFJ female but stay as kick-ass as possible?

4. How to approach the issue of a relationship (if at all)?

5. How to approach the issue of sex? (i.e. how to balance our need to get laid now with INFJ female sensitivities)

6. Anything else you'd like to add to the compendium of ENTP males' seduction theory regarding INFJ females.


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Bon voyage!
 

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What?....

I got to keep my eye on this one, definitely gonna be a good show.
*nudges and whispers* I couldn't agree more. I'm really hoping one of my female counterparts chimes in. I'd love to get their reaction to the OP. ;o)
 

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I had an experience with an INFJ once I'm sure if she sees me again she'll attack me with whatever object she can grasp. They're a different kind of crazy but I love crazy I love her she however needed to find herself and I gave her some space. Oh well she likes to disappear I'm sure I'll hear of her again but until then I'm on the search.

What I'm really wondering is where is the INFJ habitat?
 

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1. Quality time. Just spend genuine quality time with them. As you spend more time together, you will automatically build trust provided you don't lie a lot during the time spent. Let things happen at their natural pace. Let the conversation flow naturally from one thing to the next and don't make it seem like you are prying. Quality time == talking btw, so movie doesn't count. Make sure quality time is also fun! To speed the process up, go some place that opinion sharing is the norm (like an art museum or something). If you actually care about her opinions, she will sense that and open up more and more like a blossoming flower. Epic.

2. HOBBIES! And, just worry about having fun with them. Make her get out of her own head and just have fun. She might resent it at first, but she will appreciate it later. If you both are having fun, then you'll want to spend more time without the immediate need for her to open up.

3. Just be yourself. Me personally, my mind flies to all sorts of things including poetry. Instead of keeping that poetry inside, I just recite it and that shows emotional sensitivity and vulnerability. Then your mind will go to something else, so follow it. You'll be mysterious, truthful, sensitive, and alluring all in one.

4. Why label things? Just chill out with it. As you two spend more quality time, it will become apparent what the nature of the relationship is. Just go with the flow. You won't have to approach the issue.

5. See above. Also, I don't have that constant need to get laid. Currently, I'm having this kind of crisis about my own sex life. On the one hand, I'd like to have sex with someone I care about. On the other hand, I don't really feel like building that connection right now. So, I don't have much sex currently and I don't much care. You have a hand bro.

6. Just go with it. Be yourself and it'll all work out in the end. No need for any of these methods. Just feel it out and you'll be fine.
 

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ooooh, quite an interesting set of questions. :) i guess i'll give it a go, but i'm only speaking for myself.

1. How to get an INFJ female to trust and open up to an ENTP male? (Don't get lazy and just say "patience" -- give me specifics on what you did and how it worked out)

hmmm...this is really tricky. usually with other types i have less to no problems opening up. but i gotta say...you ENTP's sure know how to make a girl swooon...

use that serious wit of yours to crack jokes. it will seriously tickle me to the bones. try to tone down the arguing. it can be quite intimidating to an INFJ whose natural propensity is towards peace. the conversation will end up very one sided, with you doing most of the talking. (this is during the beginning stages of course, once we're comfortable with you, be prepared for some serious verbal sparring! lol) ask us questions. i know immature ENTP's can be quite self-centered. we'd most likely let you indulge in your opinions and thoughts and more likely walk away from the conversation.

don't give her any indication that you are not taking the relationship, even if its just "getting to know one another", as a trivial sort of thing. i know ENTP's can be quite ADHD and jump from one conversation with somebody to another. it might give us the impression that you are a playboy or attention seeking.

and i cannot believe i'm revealing this...i think, and this is just my opinion. i think in every INFJ, very well hidden away...there is a girl/woman who wants someone to make us feel truly special. we hardly ever cater to ourselves, so when someone comes along and looks at us like we're special or different (in a good way)...it can really catch our attention, trust you, and ultimately...open up.

2. How to not get bored/frustrated at INFJ females' glacial pace of opening up?

LOL. i know we can be quite challenging. and i'm perplexed as to why ENTP's, with your charisma and charm and brilliance, would even take the time to get to know us. i don't know what sort of advice i can offer that would help to increase your interest...perhaps the idea that one day if the relationships is a long and fruitful one, you'll have a companion who will cheer for you and support your dreams and ideas like no one else.

3. How to remain sensitive to INFJ females but not turn into a total emotional pussy (i.e. stay faithful to our genuine ENTP tendencies)? In other words, what are ways you balance being emotionally sensitive enough to an INFJ female but stay as kick-ass as possible?

you ENTP's are just so funny. my father is an ENTP and to this day, when i give him hugs, his expression always turns to something between constipated and i want to hit you. LOL. sometimes i have to FORCE it on him. like come here you!! you are getting a hug from me!!!

anyway, i can say that mature INFJ's are quite adept with dealing with our emotions. as our Ti (?) develops. but please for the love of god, if an INFJ gets upset because of something you said or did, the best thing you can do is JUST SHUT UP and STOP whatever it is that is making us upset. PLEASE. you don't have to turn into a total wuss for us, we like that you guys are so strong and rough around the edges, but we also want to know that you care enough not to want to INTENTIONALLY (key here) hurt us. we want you to be yourselves, but please allow us to be ourselves.

4. How to approach the issue of a relationship (if at all)?
Definitely make the first move. LOL. i'm so risk averse when it comes to this sort of thing. personally, and i think this goes for most INFJ's, I HATE DATING. its so nerve wracking and awkward and impersonal. best thing, get a few drinks in me, get to know me, and if i start showing really subtle signs that i like you, it means I REALLY LIKE YOU A LOT! then by all means, make a move!

5. How to approach the issue of sex? (i.e. how to balance our need to get laid now with INFJ female sensitivities)
please read above. drinks. get to know me. MAKE A MOVE! and if we really like you...you'll be surprised by how we respond. :)

6. Anything else you'd like to add to the compendium of ENTP males' seduction theory regarding INFJ females.
i definitely do agree that there is this weird magnetic attraction (more like gravitational pull) between mature ENTP's and mature INFJ's. its quite fascinating. and a very profound experience. that's it for now i guess...
 

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As an INFJ who has been dating an ENTP for nine months now, these threads always amuse me. It's NOT THAT COMPLICATED; things should just work. None of this seducing, scheming, game-playing, mindfucking stuff is really necessary, and not all INFJs are clams needing to be pried open and clamping shut whenever threatened. Why do so many ENTP men get caught up in the chase?

Just make her laugh, be honest and loyal, stimulate her brain, and respect her feelings even if they may seem irrational to you. Take nothing about her thoughts or feelings for granted and ask questions to ensure that you're both on the same page, or it will bite you in the ass later. Communicate your thoughts, feelings and intents as clearly as possible. If you keep an open and straightforward line of communication, you should be able to talk through any issues or questions you may have together. Compliments help, too. :) Treat the relationship as a fluid, constantly-changing entity, and adjust your actions accordingly.
 

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What I'm really wondering is where is the INFJ habitat?
- in our homes, in front of our PCs (i'm being serious...your greatest probability of meeting an INFJ may be online, like on a dating website :))
- in bookstores like Barnes & Noble or coffeeshops
- sometimes out with one or a few friends, not usually at big parties though unless dragged there against our will :)
- sometimes in language, psychology, or art classes...or maybe at public lectures
- out in relaxing settings in nature ~ hiking, biking, canoeing, enjoying the scenery
- in any setting where we can cultivate our specific hobbies

i think i just met the second ENTP i've ever met in my life, and i met both ENTPs through my job...so you might look around among your coworkers as well. although INFJs naturally gravitate towards certain fields of work, we can also be found in careers atypical for NFs. i'm an engineer and an INFJ, for example :).

to win over an INFJ:

- be genuine - no dating games, no pretense, no acting like someone other than who you are ~ she either likes you or she doesn't, pretending to be something you think she likes won't change that (it's good to adjust your behavior to be sensitive to her feelings and show consideration for her preferences, just don't create a false persona to try to attract her to you - she'll see straight through it and no longer like you for being fake)
- don't hide your emotional side or do anything that indicates that you think basing decisions on how they affect people's feelings is a bad thing
- use your emotional intelligence to try to understand her and respond sensitively to her moods
- unleash your natural charm and humor but use your Fe to know what's appropriate and sensitive
- respect her personality and values
- be clear in communication and let her in on your thoughts and feelings (even if she's already figured these things out, it will foster closeness)
- share your Ne-perceptions about people, systems, and your shared environment, with her...she's already thinking in Ni and my experience is that this will be felt by her as 'common ground' between the two of you
- don't push the INFJ into anything before she is ready ~ honor her boundaries
- be reliable, honest, and faithful; anything she perceives as 'i can't trust him' is going to turn her off to you
- expect her to surprise you and have unmappable behavior patterns that may intrigue or possibly (on occasion) confuse you for the rest of your life :)
 

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- in our homes, in front of our PCs (i'm being serious...your greatest probability of meeting an INFJ may be online, like on a dating website :))
- in bookstores like Barnes & Noble or coffeeshops
- sometimes out with one or a few friends, not usually at big parties though unless dragged there against our will :)
- sometimes in language, psychology, or art classes...or maybe at public lectures
- out in relaxing settings in nature ~ hiking, biking, canoeing, enjoying the scenery
- in any setting where we can cultivate our specific hobbies

i think i just met the second ENTP i've ever met in my life, and i met both ENTPs through my job...so you might look around among your coworkers as well. although INFJs naturally gravitate towards certain fields of work, we can also be found in careers atypical for NFs. i'm an engineer and an INFJ, for example :).

to win over an INFJ:

- be genuine - no dating games, no pretense, no acting like someone other than who you are ~ she either likes you or she doesn't, pretending to be something you think she likes won't change that (it's good to adjust your behavior to be sensitive to her feelings and show consideration for her preferences, just don't create a false persona to try to attract her to you - she'll see straight through it and no longer like you for being fake)
- don't hide your emotional side or do anything that indicates that you think basing decisions on how they affect people's feelings is a bad thing
- use your emotional intelligence to try to understand her and respond sensitively to her moods
- unleash your natural charm and humor but use your Fe to know what's appropriate and sensitive
- respect her personality and values
- be clear in communication and let her in on your thoughts and feelings (even if she's already figured these things out, it will foster closeness)
- share your Ne-perceptions about people, systems, and your shared environment, with her...she's already thinking in Ni and my experience is that this will be felt by her as 'common ground' between the two of you
- don't push the INFJ into anything before she is ready ~ honor her boundaries
- be reliable, honest, and faithful; anything she perceives as 'i can't trust him' is going to turn her off to you
- expect her to surprise you and have unmappable behavior patterns that may intrigue or possibly (on occasion) confuse you for the rest of your life :)
Interesting, how do you restore trust if it has been crossed in her eyes and how do you know when you're pushing too far.

My INFJ interest would talk talk and talk about the same thing trying to lay it out verbally and I'd offer her support and suggestions and every time she would be very defensive as if I was intruding when in fact I was trying to support her and I wouldn't even know if she hadn't included me into it. So the more we talked I saw her as asking me to help her but everytime I tried to help she acted as I was outside my place so needless to say i told her she was fucking crazy and that she needed to get her shit together before I could even see or talk to her again. That was in february and I still think of her once a week. i guess I'm the crazy one.
 

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Interesting, how do you restore trust if it has been crossed in her eyes and how do you know when you're pushing too far.

My INFJ interest would talk talk and talk about the same thing trying to lay it out verbally and I'd offer her support and suggestions and every time she would be very defensive as if I was intruding when in fact I was trying to support her and I wouldn't even know if she hadn't included me into it. So the more we talked I saw her as asking me to help her but everytime I tried to help she acted as I was outside my place so needless to say i told her she was fucking crazy and that she needed to get her shit together before I could even see or talk to her again. That was in february and I still think of her once a week. i guess I'm the crazy one.
i want to answer your question but - if it's not too probing to ask for further detail (please forgive me if it is, not trying to be nosey in any way) - it is hard to know the answer without this information ~

1. in what way was her trust crossed? what happened?
2. about what would she talk about, and what were the suggestions you gave her, and how did you support her?

i realize it's probably too personal to ask for identifying details, but a general gist of the story would help me know how to reply. :)
 

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Edit:
well i think i found either a new infj or infp and i'm stoked
 

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@Souljorn : thank you for sharing all this. :)

you said,
So she'd tell me I didn't understand and it wasn't that easy to forget and i was frank with her and said she should just stop dwelling on it and close the chapter. Anyways she'd tell me to shut up since I didn't know him nor what she went through.
as an INFJ female i think i can translate what she meant by this. telling you that you didn't understand is code for one or both of the following:

1) "i really don't want solutions; i just want you to empathize with me and listen to me until i'm actually done talking, so i feel understood and cared about...if you jump in with suggestions before i've gotten to vent about this for quite a while, i will not feel understood!" (this is typically the reason why we women in general react to solutions when we tell men our problems, and why we might think a man does not love us even when he is trying hard to help us by offering solutions to our problems. we feel loved by being listened to and empathized with and physically comforted by a hug or affectionate touch, even without being given any answers...unless answers are specifically requested.)

2) "please don't assume you know how i think if you don't actually know. please don't assume you know how i feel if you don't actually know. i don't think like a man, so don't give me solutions that really only work for men. i don't experience or process emotion the same way you do (since you're an NT and i'm an NF), so don't expect the same coping strategies to work for me as work for you." in other words, "your answers which work for you don't apply to me because i'm not you ~ i'm totally different ~ so you're totally misunderstanding me."

my guess is that both of the above applied in this situation. we women typically want to be heard out (the whole rant/vent) and do not feel cared about if someone simply provides solutions after hearing the gist of our problem. (the exception to this is if we specifically ask for advice or help, or if the problem is something tangible that needs repair, like a car or a household appliance or a computer.) you see, we view the problem very differently from how men view it. men are looking at the substance of the problem; but we are slightly more troubled by how the problem makes us feel, than we are over the problem itself, even if we aren't actually conscious of that fact. so typically when the problem is not tangible, we want our negative emotions about the problem repaired before the problem itself.

our emotions are not repaired by being told not to let it get to us, to relax, to stop letting it bother us so much, or to put it out of our minds and not dwell on it. you see, these are male solutions to a female problem; and since the neuroscientific reality is that male brains and female brains are different both in structure and in functionality, what works for the male brain simply does not work for the female brain. the female brain is so tied in together (not compartmentalized like the male brain) that it is literally incapable of 'putting something out of its mind.' whatever is troubling her will be on her mind constantly, as an issue, until it is resolved. just going and doing something else or focusing on something else will not remove it from her mind - it is still going to be on the back of her mind, interfering with her current thoughts, bothering her. so when a woman receives advice from a male that only works for a male brain, like - 'stop dwelling on it' or 'don't let it get to you' or 'just relax about this!' - she not only feels misunderstood (as in, he doesn't know how my psyche operates and doesn't really know how i feel or what solutions really are doable for me), she also feels frustrated (because his help is useless to her and he's convinced it will really help her, and she can't seem to convince him otherwise). so her vent of frustration in this circumstance usually comes out as, 'you don't understand!'

ok, now that we've defined the key term ('you don't understand') here, we can get on to the rest of this.

so although you were truly trying to help her, and had good intentions, and cared (and obviously still care) about her :), she did not feel your concern as such because it did not fix her feelings and she (by neurological function) actually was not capable of putting it out of her mind as you suggested she do.

i'm sorry you have been through all of this. :( she should never have betrayed your confidence by sharing your secrets with your friends, and anyone would have trouble trusting someone after an experience like that.

she sounds insecure. i don't know that she can be relied upon to be loyal in a relationship at this point; because she is dependent upon external validation for a positive self-image, she will seek validation wherever she can get it, including outside of a relationship. as an unhealthy INFJ, that unhealthiness will poison her relationships - and her relationship partners - until it is resolved. i don't want to see her going through this any longer, or you. her problems can be overcome and there is hope. she really needs counseling to restore her self image.

you asked how to rebuild her trust after it has been crossed. it sounds as if her ex-boyfriend broke her trust, so i assume you are asking how her trust in men can be restored? that is a hard thing; restoration of trust can take time, and definitely requires 2 things:

1) she needs good men to stay in her life, men that will not give up on her during her mood swings or be impatient with her emotions, men who will not use her selfishly but will try to serve her by helping her heal, even if they don't get anything out of it...that is, men who have a 'caring, protective brother' mindset towards her, who aren't in a friendship with her just to get more out of it, but really just genuinely care about her. (how's that for a run-on sentence? lol) that will help restore her faith in men in general.

2) she needs (good) male affirmation. right now she is seeking it in all the wrong places. she needs to get it from good men so she knows she can find it in the right places, without degrading herself to get it. she needs to feel desirable and like good men will want her as she is, without her having to stoop low or dress/act slutty to get it. (because she has lost respect for herself, she doesn't think she can do any better than this, and she thinks she has to stoop to that level to get male attention/affirmation. all it actually gets is sleazy male attention and just temporarily bandages her broken self-image.) this requires that when she's NOT dressed/acting slutty, the good guys in her life who actually care about her (like you) tell her how beautiful and desirable she is and show her attention, which will make it clear to her that she could easily get a good guy who respects her as her boyfriend, just as she is...in essence, it will show her that she is better and more deserving than she currently feels like she is. she craves attention but she needs it especially right now from good guys who respect her, not fake niceness from guys who are only nice to her because they want to get something out of her (since it is the latter which destroyed her trust in men in the first place). this will help restore her confidence in the male response to her, her perception of male respect towards her.

you also asked how to know when you are pushing too far. with an INFJ, you'll get a reaction but typically it will be a 'withdraw' reaction. we tend to pull away when someone pushes us too much. it's best with us to progress tentatively at our slow pace rather than blaze forward and try to pull us along to match your fast pace. once we come to trust you (which takes time) our own footsteps will move a bit faster. rushing the 'earning trust' process is likely to make INFJs back off or block you out.

in this respect, think of yourself as a salesman (selling yourself to us as something we want/need) and us as skeptical shoppers. you have to prove to us that you are what we want and what we need. skipping over important steps and rushing ahead to the commitment is going to make us even less inclined towards buying, less trusting of your sales pitch. we don't fall for the 'advertising pitch + rush to buy within 24 hours in order not to miss the discount' methodology - the 'rush-rush' nature of it feels manipulative and therefore suspect. sharing important information and removing our doubt about you is required before we are willing to make a purchase. we start out skeptical about people until they prove themselves to be who they purport to be. removing our skepticism is a gradual process. you have to prove yourself. we need to see in you the key data that will prove to us that you are what we want and that you are authentic, not some con-salesman trying to get something out of us for nothing. if you skip ahead to the commitment stage too early, you look to us like a salesman who is trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and we pull back and eye you with suspicion. it's just the way our Ni-Ti works. go slow, match our pace, and be who you really are; that's the only route that doesn't throw up red flags in our mind.

sorry this is SO long. i truly hope this helps. :)
 

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alright what about ENTP females? we need to be "stimulated" too. and sometimes we want another thinker. We think its hot. I've just never found one.
 

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Basic fundamentals ENTPs should know:

1. INFJs love good rhetoric (it helps if you have a blog page, which makes your writing more apparent). ENTPs are good at this but this needs to be accompanied by a highly developed empathy. Most of us need to outgrow our trolling phase, and be more diplomatic. It's a better state for our "charm" to resonate.

2. INFJs hardly flirt, so you have to do a lot of reading-between-the-lines. If you think she's more attentive to you than what you think should be normal, that's your first clue that she's probably fond of you.

3. They constantly need words of reassurance. They can be a very emotional archetype. And their negative memories drag. Really. You have to show them that your concern/support/love is close to, if not actually, unconditional.
 

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@seastallion so after i bared my soul i went and hung out with this new girl i've been talking to, an old friend of hs, apparently we also have had a few class in college....i don't recall.....but anyways she is definitely an infj or an infp and i couldn't be happier. we spend all night cuddling but unfortunately i had to leave early, well anyways i want to give you a proper reply later since you're helping me so much. tyvm and when we start dating i'll definitely send you a picture of us =] once again i appreciate you and your time =]
 
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alright what about ENTP females? we need to be "stimulated" too. and sometimes we want another thinker. We think its hot. I've just never found one.
This thread is hilarious, but it also confuses me.

I doubt I only speak for myself when I say that I am not in the least romantically attracted to INFJ men. I guess the cultural and biological differences between men and women are greater than i thought..
 
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