Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I will start for the end. Eve, she is an average woman but once near, once you talk about relationships some things become evident: men are evil, men hurt and men have done a great damage on her life since early years. So much for the surprise we all have faced complains like those, we run the risk of classifying this as the average story but it is not.

Being friends for years I was able to build inside my mind a "map" of stories but something was missing: there are far too many complains about the hurting coming from HER MOTHER but very little coming from men. Sure the stories of her EXBFS sound like hurt but nothing outside of the average, nothing I experienced myself (or my male friends from women).

Things get more interesting, I'm tempted to talk about it but I hold my breath. I notice how she describes discussions or arguments with guys or exBFs, she sounds hurt "you are crazy, you lied to me" etc (true or not is not the case here) but once you compare those words to the ones coming from her mother: nobody will love you, you are useless, dumb, idiot, I regret this and I regret that, nobody will marry a woman like you, etc ADD TO THAT long episodes of indifference as punishment, or forced to wash and wash and wash. Once you compare those hurting stories you SEE THE GAP but she doesn't sound too hurt on this as talking about the "evil men", in fact she rarely opens this window and when she does two scenarios are found: talking about it naturally like her mother said "good morning" (but she actually said hurting words), or she talks in pauses, very very little and then the subject is avoided.

To me, the gap was so big I decided to talk. I have no doubts on the hurt caused by exlovers but once I opened this window Eve entered a denial stage, it was not possible because men are evil, ok but men are more evil than her mother right? her mother is not evil, men are. The evident gap became a problem and it was obvious she was trying to sustain the premise: men are evil...
Despite the fact... that the more hurting figure on her life... is a woman? her mother?


By denial? The problem is not "Eve" because I found SEVERAL EVES along the way, it sounds as a standard character of a woman who have suffered the most at hands of her mother, another woman, but she holds no idea of women being able to hurt: it's all about men.

By absence? Many of those EVES I have found had a tolerating peaceful father (you can call it "I see people hurting you but I do nothing" too), fathers who were a shadow at the light of the mother. Most had a missing father and her mother was the only parent figure. Then, the father is at blame because he is not there? how much you can blame about someone who is not even there??? while you have someone hurting you?

Very few, actually noticed this. While talking denial was so heavy I lost interest many times, but some after denial, months or even 1 year later said "I've been thinking and the most hurting figure in my life has been my mother". Interesting huh?

Why on love and relationships? because it's evident how much this hurts the mind and heart of anyone who was raised this way, it affects how you relate to the other gender, etc. My ex is another example, her mother is really evil, her grandmother is the same and guess what? she, herself started acting like her without noticing it.

Obviously: it surprises me how someone who had a feminine figure so negative and hurting doesn't think or associate things, instead, still men are the ones evil.

For those with little brains: sure not everyone matches that scenario, sure I didn't say ALL PEOPLE, nope, it's not a case about gender, nope I didn't say you are, etc... you know why this disclaimer huh?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,838 Posts
The format of this post was downright baffling, but I think I understand this Archetype you speak of.


This "Eve" person very clearly has her own issues of course... Honestly it is highly reminiscent of BPD women who learn these behaviors from, you guessed it, their narcissistic and/or Borderline Mothers.
But it's a tragic cycle of abuse and emotional dehabilitation.


Obviously, I am not skilled enough to diagnose a women I have never met. I have only your word to take for this.
Regardless, damaged people who blame and demonize such a wide demographic are to be... regarded carefully.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
I'm not sure what your goal is here. What is the truth that you're hoping to find by having this discussion? In general your post is confusing.

If I'm reading things correctly what you're dealing with is daughters who were raised by narcissistic mothers and that's its own can of worms. I suggest, if you're interested in the psychology here, that you look up narcissistic parents, and the effects they have on their children.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Didn't initiate my little brain at all. You do mean the one located in the little head, right?

You have a different point of reference from your friend. Of course you'd see it differently. This is what she was raised with, this is normal for her, no matter how unhealthy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,145 Posts
I'm not sure what your goal is here. What is the truth that you're hoping to find by having this discussion? In general your post is confusing.

.
Dont worry. His posts are always 'confusing'. He's yet to once look to his own dysfunction as to why he's so preoccupied with fucked up women. My guess, it's easier to diagnose and cry about other fucked up people as opposed diagnose and work on yourself.

Note from someone who has fear issues of her own. I don't think men are evil. I love them. Some scare me, some are walking triggers for me (bad patterns they have and I don't want to be sucked in or don't have the skills to cope with their poor coping skills). Growing up with a narcissistic parent by no means defines you or makes you fucked. It does maybe define the type of struggles to overcome. Like, all parents fuck their kids to some degree. Some are passing the game of hockey (rough sport and the occasional missing tooth). Others baseball (not much but on occasion its adrenaline pumping). Others pass on gladiator type shit and other parents are like so, that they pass on the game of golf and the persons head is pretty much a nap. :p

this OP, seriously. When are you gonna post a thread seeking perspective on YOUR bullshit to work through?

I honestly promise to never post in another thread of yours if you do that. :kitteh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: chanteuse

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
@ningsta kitty

So he posts things like this regularly? Good to know, thanks!

As to parents; you're right parents and how we're raised don't define us, but there are common behaviors and issues that people will need to work through which is what I was thinking of in my post.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,145 Posts
@ningsta kitty

So he posts things like this regularly? Good to know, thanks!

As to parents; you're right parents and how we're raised don't define us, but there are common behaviors and issues that people will need to work through which is what I was thinking of in my post.
:)

yeah, he has a million threads (as I do myself) but opposed to a variety for whatever reasons, ALL of his threads, are ALL about women. And they're ALL about 'bad' women. Seriously Ironic. It's gotten to creepy proportions. Lol!
 
  • Like
Reactions: chanteuse

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,326 Posts
@changos just a suggestion, dude, you need to stop calling people evil. People are not evil. They do evil things. They may have evil intent and motivations often. But to say they are evil is relegation. Assignment. Labelling. That will not help anything or clarify your points.

I also have seen this pattern before. Women that blame men for the vitriolic actions of their mothers and actually propagate their mother's vile behaviors by doing it. I have also discovered like you that they seem to have a hard time recovering. Anything that points them in a direction of truth is quickly denied and some new path to the same old pattern found and taken. Very sad.

I have met a few though that are slowly recovering from the damage they took. It can happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,647 Posts
….So basically you're saying that because women couldn't possibly conceptualize another woman doing them harm, they instead blame men for hurting them. Even though in actuality their mother has hurt them more than any man.

Possibly, but from what I've seen this doesn't hold true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@changos just a suggestion, dude, you need to stop calling people evil. People are not evil. They do evil things. They may have evil intent and motivations often. But to say they are evil is relegation. Assignment. Labelling. That will not help anything or clarify your points.
Thanks, was not the best way to explain things but it's not me labeling, but it sounds confusing I guess from your words. I'm starting the thread from the position "woman A calls men evil more than often" she is labeling. Woman A explains the evil things someone did to her, there is no scale of comparison to the things she complains, so I don't understand while minor things are seeing that big compared to the other ones (larger ones) and says very little or nothing. Would it help to state it's not me? it's their words? and I mean their words translated to english: mean, bad, evil, cruel. And if they, that group calls men evil, why they can't see the gap and scale of hurt received from a woman in their family? why they find it so easy to call some group (gender) evil and not other?

In other words, it would help to make clear I'm not stating anything at all, just telling what I have found and wondering why the gap, and sharing it as a question. Seeing this in several women and being friends for years with many, and them, failing to realize the gap without help makes me believe it would be difficult to get the same confirmation on comparison from other women, it's like I'm talking about something that "never happens" to people who very often believes "it doesn't happen".

Thanks for the suggestion I will try to keep more in mind how many would think those are my words and my labels. The label I have used about this is "blind", blindness.

I also have seen this pattern before. Women that blame men for the vitriolic actions of their mothers and actually propagate their mother's vile behaviors by doing it. I have also discovered like you that they seem to have a hard time recovering. Anything that points them in a direction of truth is quickly denied and some new path to the same old pattern found and taken. Very sad.

I have met a few though that are slowly recovering from the damage they took. It can happen.
Your words exactly, it ringed a bell in my head when I started seeing the pattern, more common that I would think of, and while people don't realize it, gets difficult to overcome it. I wonder why (that's my main question). I asked this to a friend psychologist and he just smiled as if I had found a plot hole on a movie.
 

·
Premium Member
INTP
Joined
·
11,918 Posts
A woman doesn't usually label all men as 'evil' just because her father is, either. Someone growing up with a negative mother figure will still meet many other women who are positive figures.
One negative female figure will not affect her perception of the whole gender. Several negative male figures probably will.
Since there are more negative male figures in society than there are female negative figures, the label is going to be assigned to men 'in general' more often than to women.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,376 Posts
Interesting observation.

I could see support for the theory that any child who is either: A) Raised by a single parent or B) Raised by two parents but only one of them does most of the parenting

will tend toward seeing their parent, or parents, in black and white terms (even after being grown). If only because of how contrast works. I mean, if I'm a kid and all I ever know is one style of parenting, then it stands to reason that I would see it as the norm and even if it's hurting me, I would tend toward finding excuses for it. At least until something breaks / hits too hard and it becomes nigh impossible to excuse the parent.

But if the cycle of criticism/abuse is too subtle... I could see it being very difficult to detach and see the offender beyond the position of immaculate caregiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,208 Posts
I'm having some difficulty understanding the pattern here... does it mean that some women were abused by their mothers, which affected their own sense of worth, and then they project that hurt to their relationships with men? Like they have less confidence and self worth so any imperfect or negative relationship situation reminds them (unconsciously) of their lack of self worth and affects their confidence, which makes them feel hurt; and yet they blame men for not being caring/loving/whatever?

If so, I guess that the reason these women might not talk much about their mothers' abuse as they were not aware of the abuse or perhaps the abuse is past and in adult life these women are focused on their relationships rather?

(I'm just guessing here as I'm not familiar with this pattern. Thought I kind of get how issues can propagate from parents to kids)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,050 Posts
I have one more theory to add to this... women who are raised by abusive and degrading mothers (mothers who have BPD or are narcissistic) and absent fathers come to "hate men" because the mother also tends to be charming and it's easier to excuse her behavior. The woman still has scars, but she blames them on the men.
The woman is also growing up using her mother's example.

AriesLilith makes a great point too.

Why don't you search some of the existing threads on this topic, rather than making a new one? Psychologytoday.com might be able to help you as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A woman doesn't usually label all men as 'evil' just because her father is, either. Someone growing up with a negative mother figure will still meet many other women who are positive figures.
One negative female figure will not affect her perception of the whole gender. Several negative male figures probably will.
Since there are more negative male figures in society than there are female negative figures, the label is going to be assigned to men 'in general' more often than to women.
I understand your post but it sounds confusing to me, I believe most people react to generalization based on personal or near personal experiences, not just numbers of X people being more negative, so I still wonder this scenario based on the near context, family, that's the key to my curiosity here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting observation.

I could see support for the theory that any child who is either: A) Raised by a single parent or B) Raised by two parents but only one of them does most of the parenting

will tend toward seeing their parent, or parents, in black and white terms (even after being grown). If only because of how contrast works. I mean, if I'm a kid and all I ever know is one style of parenting, then it stands to reason that I would see it as the norm and even if it's hurting me, I would tend toward finding excuses for it. At least until something breaks / hits too hard and it becomes nigh impossible to excuse the parent.

But if the cycle of criticism/abuse is too subtle... I could see it being very difficult to detach and see the offender beyond the position of immaculate caregiver.
Makes a lot of sense to me, specially about the cycles being subtle, the white and black theory of yours-angle sounds a lot like something happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm having some difficulty understanding the pattern here...
I'm not exactly sure about the "pattern" because there might be several ones, but I see one "pattern" in the sense of several women I had the chance to talk to for hours over the years as friends and their abusers can be placed on lists but there is no comparison between the damage done by their mothers.

does it mean that some women were abused by their mothers
Yes that's part of what I'm seeing on this context. The first direct reaction of mine, ever on this discussion was telling to X woman who complained a lot about men... almost as a natural reflex: remember all the stories of "abuse" that were actually minor and then told her about the many stories of abuse coming from her own mother, many of them were disregarded, denied and painted as "that's not abuse" even if she complained directly, then said it was "natural", all people experienced that, etc. Then she reacted saying "I was not aware of that" (but took a lot of time and I did not influenced her).


which affected their own sense of worth, and then they project that hurt to their relationships with men? Like they have less confidence and self worth so any imperfect or negative relationship situation reminds them (unconsciously) of their lack of self worth and affects their confidence, which makes them feel hurt; and yet they blame men for not being caring/loving/whatever?

If so, I guess that the reason these women might not talk much about their mothers' abuse as they were not aware of the abuse or perhaps the abuse is past and in adult life these women are focused on their relationships rather?

(I'm just guessing here as I'm not familiar with this pattern. Thought I kind of get how issues can propagate from parents to kids)
Aries, I will have a difficult time explaining this, but yes, exactly what you are referring too, but even more. I mentioned how ironic is to point out as abuser someone who has done much less damage than the top abuser in this context, perhaps is actually done "on purpose" by the mother as in -The Water Boy-, in that movie-example the mother tells the guy all woman are bad etc (that actually happens, people poisoned).

Back to the point, yes I mentioned the contrast about "men" but it's just part of what catches my attention because there is a much more complex scenario behind that I mentioned too subtly: it affects relationships, love relationships. More directly: it affects families and pretty sure those women will affect their children too.

The negative effect this has in society is terrible, very diff from the clitche of "men do it too", most men won't be there, most women stay as the only parents on their family so it's only their vision influencing more children and society itself. There is a psychologist from germany who battled her own father opinions until (as she says herself) constant therapies with clients helped her see the highly important women have in family and society, more important than men (and I have no problem agreeing with it).

Yes I agree with you perhaps they were not too aware of the abuse, just as mentioned above "too subtle". So while you say you are not too familiar with this or not fully understanding what I tried to explain, you end up with the line of what exactly catches my mind: it propagates. And if one person fails to identify the more damaging abuser... it propagates a very biased, twisted perception.
 

·
Premium Member
INTP
Joined
·
11,918 Posts
I understand your post but it sounds confusing to me, I believe most people react to generalization based on personal or near personal experiences, not just numbers of X people being more negative, so I still wonder this scenario based on the near context, family, that's the key to my curiosity here.
More negative male figures in society means a higher chance of having more experiences with negative male figures on a personal level.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top