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Discussion Starter #1
I really admit I hate feminists.
I'm very tough, and really, I'm always pro-women, but I hate this wave of feminism everywhere!!
Sex is fun! We like it tough and people can't assume it. I think there's this whole wave of feminism that treats women as victims, and holds up as "desirable" values on women values who are not really desirable. People call their own fears feelings, and then, they say they're the feely, sensitive ones, and call you unsensitive just because you're not fearful. I see a lot of that in the orthodox feminist system.So, I'm a pro-sex feminist, I love porn, I favour sexting (i do it and it's fun), and I want women who take full pride of their bodies, and can make us hot with it. Sure I will if I can.

What I mean, is, they say, women are more feely, responsible, and all that. Those are not really values I consider intrinsecal of a woman, and not really desirable. I want tough people with blood flowing in their veins, free people, not good mothers and good wives.
 

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I want tough people with blood flowing in their veins, free people, not good mothers and good wives.
I mostly agree with what you have said, but I want mostly for all women to have made their own choices in life. So if she wants to be a good mother/wife she should be allowed to choose that without being judged as not strong enough as a woman. Having said that, I also don't see being a wife and mother as being opposed to being pro-sex, loving porn, taking delight in our own bodies etc. I am/do all those things and I don't see any problem with any of it. I enjoy it all; it's all stuff I chose for myself and I feel fully in control of my own life. And that's what I think feminism should be about -- being free and happy and strong in the choices we made for ourselves.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No, no, of course not. Really I'm meaning a concrete position.
I always hated all that "feminist" shit that women are more sensitive, and really, they tend to have sex only when they'r ein love, and this is why they're better. I mean, the opposition of "familiar" values opposed to "masculine" tough ones. Of course, freedom is what this is about, sorry, sometimes I seem too tough.
I read a book this summer, that said that "most girls can feel afraid in their first sexual relationships of the idea of an erection". Yeah, they tell us girls to not be afraid of sex, that we just want it as the expresion of love. The part entitled for guys told them to relax down and not be perverts! Hey! I have the dirtiest mind ever, and this is the reality. We should really help people with this. You know what I mean?
Really, I feel like you. Because I love my motherly side in conjunction with my whorish side.
How can I make them cope with each other? At times I don't really know. Well, I do, but it's a hard thing...
By good mothers, and good wives, I meant those traditional values. Just that.

For example, my mother says women are more sensitive and likely to fall in love with the men they have sex with. You know, all this vision that admires sweet women. Well, that's not what I hate, but the idea that is intrinsecal of women.
Nothing exists, to me. Everything was made for us. And gender over all things. Seriously. How much ado about nothing.
 

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Yeah I see what you're saying, but I can't quite get how people are saying those things are feminist. Aren't they just trying to tie us to traditional gender roles? This is that old excuse that men and women are intrinsically different and that values women as feminine and men as masculine. That's rough for both sides -- for the sensitive 'feminine' men and for the 'masculine' women. In reality I think we're all a bit of both and we should just be ourselves. That's pretty idealistic though, and I'm not sure how we'd break through the constructs and manage it.
 

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I completely agree with you. I've heard too many 'feminists' bitching about how men are pigs and only want us for sex but it really takes two (or more ahah) for that. I'm a girl and I love sex. I'd take a good lay over romance any day. I'm also comfortable with my body. It's not objectification because if I choose to look like a skank, it's for myself and not anyone else. I hate how we're supposed to be these fragile little girls. Anything a man can do I will also do if I enjoy it and I think that makes me a better feminist than all these annoying women that bitch about everything.
 

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I think the problem is that there are so many interpretations of Feminism that it just ends up confusing people. Like I always thought that most Feminists are okay with sex and hate how women are viewed as victims, except the old second-wave ones. So please don't hate Feminism, just ignore the ones who are anti-sex and view women as dainty little flowers.
 

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I think the problem is that there are so many interpretations of Feminism that it just ends up confusing people. Like I always thought that most Feminists are okay with sex and hate how women are viewed as victims, except the old second-wave ones. So please don't hate Feminism, just ignore the ones who are anti-sex and view women as dainty little flowers.
I was gonna say something like this too because from what I've seen, it's been about our independence and not conforming to the gender roles assigned to us. I've never seen the types who are anti-sex and view women as dainty little flowers. I wouldn't consider them full on feminists if they are at all.
 

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Liberal feminism is the type of feminism that actually makes sense.
It's the radical feminism that treats women as utter victims of social oppression whom must overcome men with their superiority.
And this form is also relatively intolerant and extremist.

So yeah, as someone said: don't give up on all feminists, or feminism in general; not all feminists are as vile as you'd think.
Women still need much more equality, and just because some people are fighting for that cause inappropriately, there's still much reason to seek social balance for all females.
 

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Liberal feminism is the type of feminism that actually makes sense.
It's the radical feminism that treats women as utter victims of social oppression whom must overcome men with their superiority.
And this form is also relatively intolerant and extremist.

So yeah, as someone said: don't give up on all feminists, or feminism in general; not all feminists are as vile as you'd think.
Women still need much more equality, and just because some people are fighting for that cause inappropriately, there's still much reason to seek social balance for all females.
I forgot about the extremists, I never related to them at all honestly.
 

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yeah **thinks about radical feminists, throws up**
Radical feminism is self-defeating and as vile, harmful, and offensive as blatant chauvinism.
Yeah pretty much. It's kind of self-defeating in a way to attempt at empowering yourself at someone else's expense. You end up looking weak in the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
But I think that extreme feminism is getting, if very well disguised, into our system. For example, here in Spain, I got very pissed because our Equality minister said she was going to apply a law forbidding prostitution and hot line adverts since they're harmful to women and "depicting a woman as "up for anything" is derogatory". I don't think prostitution is as bad as they make it seem, and I think, the people who don't like prostitution in general they have a problem towards sex, but, seriously, HOW COMES THAT SAYING I'M HORNY IS DEROGATORY?? What the fuck!!!
 

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I wish people would stop trying to legislate their morals and force them on the rest of the world...and that goes for anything.
 

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But I think that extreme feminism is getting, if very well disguised, into our system. For example, here in Spain, I got very pissed because our Equality minister said she was going to apply a law forbidding prostitution and hot line adverts since they're harmful to women and "depicting a woman as "up for anything" is derogatory". I don't think prostitution is as bad as they make it seem, and I think, the people who don't like prostitution in general they have a problem towards sex, but, seriously, HOW COMES THAT SAYING I'M HORNY IS DEROGATORY?? What the fuck!!!
Well when it comes to prostitution I think that's kind of a different story. I have no problem with sex, sex is great. And, theoretically, if a woman wanted to have sex for money just because she wanted to, that's fine too. But the reality is in the modern world the vast, vast, vast majority of prostitutes are exploited and often victims of human trafficking. And that's something I don't think should be encouraged. I realize there's probably some independent women out there who, free of coercion, decide that they would enjoy being a sex worker, and I don't have a problem with that in a vacuum. But when you look at the real world reality of prostitution thinks get a lot stickier :\

Personally I'm not totally sure about what the correct policy decision is on prostitution. I'm not sure about all out legalization, but I also don't think the current approach in, say, the US is the best way to do things either. It doesn't do any good to arrest individual prostitutes, because arresting abused and/or trafficked women is obviously not the answer. I think maybe the best thing is to have a controlled, regulated prostitution industry, so as to protect trafficked women and to make things safer for the few non-exploited sex workers themselves and the general public. But again, this is one issue I find really thorny and I'm not totally sure the best way to tackle it.
 

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Personally I'm not totally sure about what the correct policy decision is on prostitution. I'm not sure about all out legalization, but I also don't think the current approach in, say, the US is the best way to do things either. It doesn't do any good to arrest individual prostitutes, because arresting abused and/or trafficked women is obviously not the answer. I think maybe the best thing is to have a controlled, regulated prostitution industry, so as to protect trafficked women and to make things safer for the few non-exploited sex workers themselves and the general public. But again, this is one issue I find really thorny and I'm not totally sure the best way to tackle it.
In my country it has been decriminalised, so while it's not 'legal' to sell sex it is also not criminal. So they have a bit more protection and so the younger people who are coerced into it (and it is still illegal to use underage girls) are looked after better because the older women actually report things now without fear of being arrested themselves.

regarding prostitution itself, like you, I'm all for it if the women are doing it from their own free will and not because they have been forced to it for whatever reason. I knew a girl at university who ran her own 'business' and she was remarkably happy in herself. In that situation I say go for it, but as you say there seems to be a messy problem with exploitation in the industry as a whole.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I want to make clear I don't want women to do anything they really don't want.
But anything you wanna do and can do, you should be able to.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Then how can you hate yourself, when your statement here is pure feminism?
I don't know what makes you think I am "hating myself".

Or is it the sentence "I don't want women to do..."...? Of course I meant men too.
An omission of just a word that makes the difference, I suppose, in a sentence.
 

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I don't know what makes you think I am "hating myself".

Or is it the sentence "I don't want women to do..."...? Of course I meant men too.
An omission of just a word that makes the difference, I suppose, in a sentence.
You say in the first post in this thread that you hate feminists, but the whole point of feminism is sex equality - remember, feminists love men, they also want women to be equal to them.
 

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But I think that extreme feminism is getting, if very well disguised, into our system. For example, here in Spain, I got very pissed because our Equality minister said she was going to apply a law forbidding prostitution and hot line adverts since they're harmful to women and "depicting a woman as "up for anything" is derogatory". I don't think prostitution is as bad as they make it seem, and I think, the people who don't like prostitution in general they have a problem towards sex, but, seriously, HOW COMES THAT SAYING I'M HORNY IS DEROGATORY?? What the fuck!!!
Im with you on this. If they would have said something about health issues I would be more inclined to hear them out, but anyways, institutionalized sexism is far from new. Its just disguised very well.
 
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