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If anyone thinks I'm mistyped, feel free to let me know and explain why (vibes? what I say? behaviour? answers?) so I know how to interpret it.

I currently type myself as:
5w4 (the description works, and these are my two highest scores on tests)
54x

I don't know about the AwB CwD EwF thing and how it's structured, so if someone could explain that'd be helpful.
 

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MOTM February 2014
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If anyone thinks I'm mistyped, feel free to let me know and explain why (vibes? what I say? behaviour? answers?) so I know how to interpret it.
I currently type myself as:
5w4 (the description works, and these are my two highest scores on tests)
54x
I don't know about the AwB CwD EwF thing and how it's structured, so if someone could explain that'd be helpful.
Some general guidelines:
More people think they're 5, 4, and 54x than there actually are people who are 5, 4, and 54x. Same goes for SX-first.

Read the Introduction to Enneagram, and other stickied threads. Tests are not "proof of type" by a long shot. Descriptions for other types, particularly 3, 6, and 7, suck. Types do not have much bearing on being "friendly" or "extroverted," including the instincts. Most people attempt to use tritypes too early. If you're not going to introspect or critically think about types, don't bother yourself too much (and ideally don't claim a type - for yourself or others - based on "first impression" or "test scores").

Once you actually do use tritype: Lots of people erroneously think that being "AwB" are somehow automatically "BwA" in tritypes, which is just... lazy, frankly. (And trying to get around that by tacking on the opposite wing ("BwC") as if it makes this better doesn't really work, either.)
 

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Some general guidelines:
More people think they're 5, 4, and 54x than there actually are people who are 5, 4, and 54x. Same goes for SX-first.

Read the Introduction to Enneagram, and other stickied threads. Tests are not "proof of type" by a long shot. Descriptions for other types, particularly 3, 6, and 7, suck. Types do not have much bearing on being "friendly" or "extroverted," including the instincts. Most people attempt to use tritypes too early. If you're not going to introspect or critically think about types, don't bother yourself too much (and ideally don't claim a type - for yourself or others - based on "first impression" or "test scores").

Once you actually do use tritype: Lots of people erroneously think that being "AwB" are somehow automatically "BwA" in tritypes, which is just... lazy, frankly. (And trying to get around that by tacking on the opposite wing ("BwC") as if it makes this better doesn't really work, either.)
How are you supposed to know how many 5, 4, 54x, sx-firsts, etc. are in the world?

(And thanks for the resources. I'll go check them out.)
 

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How are you supposed to know how many 5, 4, 54x, sx-firsts, etc. are in the world?
I mean, it seems obvious no answer would appease anyone who would ask that right off. It would be far more rational for someone brand new to take it as the experiential anecdote it is and ask themselves why someone who is a 10-year member would say it.

Kudos on the whole "free-thinking" part of "being 5w4" thing, though.

I genuinely would answer and show you statistics and share more anecdotes and descriptions/"data," but most of these conversations (especially with newcomers) tend to go with me saying "well it's statistically improbable" and you go "well but enneagram will just draw in certain ~types of people~",
and then I go "but that's silly, and people are complicated and types are complicated," and then you go "okay but [popular author] says [superficial stuff]" because (personal) reading hasn't been done yet (and I really like Ichazo which is NOT pop-psych like Ruso and Hudson or similar),
and I say "many people who HAVE gone deep into the rabbit hole and not just relied on tests to end up at not-4/5/45x" and then you go "but that's just anecdotes",
-- which is ultimately kind of a circular argument, of a sort, because we disagree the basis of the argument to begin with.

(And thanks for the resources. I'll go check them out.)
You're welcome. Nuances are always a pleasure for me.
 

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I mean, it seems obvious no answer would appease anyone who would ask that right off. It would be far more rational for someone brand new to take it as the experiential anecdote it is and ask themselves why someone who is a 10-year member would say it.

Kudos on the whole "free-thinking" part of "being 5w4" thing, though.

I genuinely would answer and show you statistics and share more anecdotes and descriptions/"data," but most of these conversations (especially with newcomers) tend to go with me saying "well it's statistically improbable" and you go "well but enneagram will just draw in certain ~types of people~",
and then I go "but that's silly, and people are complicated and types are complicated," and then you go "okay but [popular author] says [superficial stuff]" because (personal) reading hasn't been done yet (and I really like Ichazo which is NOT pop-psych like Ruso and Hudson or similar),
and I say "many people who HAVE gone deep into the rabbit hole and not just relied on tests to end up at not-4/5/45x" and then you go "but that's just anecdotes",
-- which is ultimately kind of a circular argument, of a sort, because we disagree the basis of the argument to begin with.


You're welcome. Nuances are always a pleasure for me.
I agree there are WAY more people typed as 54x than there really are people who are these types, but I don’t think this phenomenon happens because these types are extraordinarily rare or anything of the sort. I think this happens because some type descriptions are genuinely skewed and leave the impression some types are fundamentally better/more desirable than others are.

I am convinced I am really core 4w3, but in the beginning I refused to type as 4 because of the implications this typing would bring. I didn’t want to be seen as just “one more” of the many people claiming to be “special snowflakes (!!)” over here, without really understanding the type in depth. Which, looking back, was a really shallow image-type concern, but...

There is some bias when it comes to subtypes as well. 4w5 is seen as the ultimate artistic genius, 5w4 the “best possible original thinker/philosopher”. If I typed myself based only on how I wished I was (plus these biased descriptions), I would type as 4w5 for sure, but I reckon the vanity and plasticity of the w3 are much more compatible with me than the w5.

I mean, I like Riso & Hudson, but I’m not putting these guys on a pedestal. We have to remember they self-typed as 4 and 5 respectively, and that their descriptions aren’t perfect or free of bias.
 
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@Aiwass, I agree. Thanks for putting that in plainer language. I was rather tired last night and not in a great mood at all. I'm in a better mood but still tired lol.

I do think RH idolizes 5, especially, along with a lesser but present 4 bias. That bias in their most popular book and website, IIRC. The Faurves idolize type 8, imo. I think every author ever has their weak points, and I don't even mean every author idolizes/villifies something, just that they're subject to human fallacies and can't understand EVERY type or be totally believed. (Like you said but I needed to clarify that too.) Heck, the only type 6 description I like is online only at ocean moonshine, and the second best is again online at typewatch, but even they're not perfect for all types. (I'm on my phone so I don't have links.)

And yeah, that all definitely caters to those who like the stereotypes you mentioned. The thinkers go to 5, the emo go to 4. It's really frustrating, in part because it limits conversation so much, in part because it waters down conversation. I have met and spoke to people I believe are 4/5/8 (8 is less of an issue on PerC), but shockingly they don't make up the majority (45% on PerC), even with a "random sample" approach taken :p

Edit: I'm now remembering college, where I came across a few I would guess are 4s and many who I would guess are emo or shy 2/6/9s (possibly others) but would've loved the stereotype. Heck right now I know a probable 8 who would love the 5 stereotype!
 

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@Aiwass, I agree. Thanks for putting that in plainer language. I was rather tired last night and not in a great mood at all. I'm in a better mood but still tired lol.

I do think RH idolizes 5, especially, along with a lesser but present 4 bias. That bias in their most popular book and website, IIRC. The Faurves idolize type 8, imo. I think every author ever has their weak points, and I don't even mean every author idolizes/villifies something, just that they're subject to human fallacies and can't understand EVERY type or be totally believed. (Like you said but I needed to clarify that too.) Heck, the only type 6 description I like is online only at ocean moonshine, and the second best is again online at typewatch, but even they're not perfect for all types. (I'm on my phone so I don't have links.)

And yeah, that all definitely caters to those who like the stereotypes you mentioned. The thinkers go to 5, the emo go to 4. It's really frustrating, in part because it limits conversation so much, in part because it waters down conversation. I have met and spoke to people I believe are 4/5/8 (8 is less of an issue on PerC), but shockingly they don't make up the majority (45% on PerC), even with a "random sample" approach taken :p
As a 4, I have to reckon R&H analyse some types through a distorted core 4 fixated envy lens. The "Attachment triad" is seen as the triad of the "commoners" and "plebeians"; 3s, 6s and 9s are described as embodying the "cultural ethos" of whatever time and place they live in. Sometimes it is almost like they are seen as devoid of individuality. Many people let that observation pass, but I didn't. It is no wonder there is a lot of "type hierarchy" and "typing battle" happening on these Enneagram forums.

Yes, the 5 idolization is MASSIVE. R&H types anyone who made a significant intellectual contribution to society as a core 5, with very few exceptions. It is like 5 is more defined by being "smart" or "intellectual" (or by being seen as smart) than it is defined by actual personality traits.

In my observation, MANY people who are E9s identify with E5 descriptions in the beginning. It is extremely common. I don't blame them though; go to the Enneagram Institute and compare the two descriptions, which one of them anyone would like to be?
 

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I wish I could be certain of my typing as an infp. I have toiled over this for years though. Being an infp can reason to me my struggles, while other types cannot. I would post my my feelings, my thoughts, and past experiences that have led me to believe that I am an infp, but I fear it would go unnoticed and I would have only revealed too much of my heart and deepest parts of myself that I cannot take back. This thread is perhaps as much as I can say without feeling that I have torn myself into pieces and seen my paper memories drift too far away.

In allowing myself to settle on being an infp, I have become interested in discovering my enneagram type to deepen my understanding of myself, why I differ from some infp's as well. I am fairly certain I am a core 9w1 with a 4w5 fix as well, but my sub type and tritype is still a mystery. I read a description of 459 long ago, which I fully identified with, but I know now that this type is rare, and it is more often than not a mistake infp's make. I would agree that I identify too highly with my introversion, but I too identify with how invisible the 459 seems, how depleted my energy becomes making me feel wispy. Knowing more about 5, it sounds very much like Ti, so I am unsure. The 459 must exist somewhere. I do struggle with much self doubt, so perhaps I am a 946, but triple self doubts seems like more than I need. I am just so often resistant to being part of communities or trusting authority to identify well with a 6. I prefer to live my own way, not be bound to a society and it's ideology. I have never, even as a child identified with my culture which put me at odds with a conservative family. I don't know what an introverted 7 may look like. My life may be too stable to be a 7, yet I have an assortment of left behind crafts. The descriptions from ocean-Moonshine mention that 7s develop multiple skills. None of them really feel like me, so I at least know that my head type is weakest.

I tried to make this thread to get help working out my tritype instead of impressing too much of myself somewhere else. Some gentle suggestions may help at least. Please let me know if I have gone astray.
 

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@SoftlyRaining But I'm a 6, and I'm not part of "communities" and I don't trust authorities. I'm much more of a free-thinker than I think 6's are generally known for. Perhaps you're focusing on so-dom 6's too much?
 
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@SoftlyRaining Plus 6's can often mistrust authority and be anti-authority as well.
 

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@SoftlyRaining But I'm a 6, and I'm not part of "communities" and I don't trust authorities. I'm much more of a free-thinker than I think 6's are generally known for. Perhaps you're focusing on so-dom 6's too much?
Maybe. I think I am sp/sx or the other way around. I learned young not to give my faith to figures of authority growing up in an authoritarian culture, household, and religion. The present leadership only brings these frustrations to my attention, and my parents who give their trust so easily is difficult to resolve. I am leaning towards 6 as my head type because I tend to be anxious and fearful of the world. I often feel as though I need guidance or protection, uncertain of my own capabilities. I've heard of the 946 as having a "damsel in distress" quality and I would regretfully admit this to be true in some manner.
 

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Maybe. I think I am sp/sx or the other way around. I learned young not to give my faith to figures of authority growing up in an authoritarian culture, household, and religion. The present leadership only brings these frustrations to my attention, and my parents who give their trust so easily is difficult to resolve. I am leaning towards 6 as my head type because I tend to be anxious and fearful of the world. I often feel as though I need guidance or protection, uncertain of my own capabilities. I've heard of the 946 as having a "damsel in distress" quality and I would regretfully admit this to be true in some manner.
Cool. I happen to be a 694.
 

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Cool. I happen to be a 694.
😊 Maybe 694 isfp's are not so distressed as a 946 infp.
I thought I might have been isfp, but I struggle so much with being in the present and conscious of my environment. It is so difficult to just allow my eyes to see, to give my vision to all the details. I create art through my imagination more naturally than from life, so my work is illustrative.

I appreciate your help
 

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I tried to make this thread to get help working out my tritype instead of impressing too much of myself somewhere else. Some gentle suggestions may help at least. Please let me know if I have gone astray.
Well, in general, gentle I am not. But, do not fear, exposure and disintegration is required to reintegrate. The Phoenix must burn to be reborn.

I am well versed at typing people just with their writing samples.

You do strike me as 94 and 5 or 6 for tertiary is hardly a massive question, yes? If I had to guess for you, I feel some of the ephemeral fairy 7 in you and a rather surprising dose of resentment 1. So, I would offer you 9w1, 4w5, 6w7 and sp/sx/so in stacking.

Welcome!
 

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I wish I could be certain of my typing as an infp. I have toiled over this for years though. Being an infp can reason to me my struggles, while other types cannot. I would post my my feelings, my thoughts, and past experiences that have led me to believe that I am an infp, but I fear it would go unnoticed and I would have only revealed too much of my heart and deepest parts of myself that I cannot take back. This thread is perhaps as much as I can say without feeling that I have torn myself into pieces and seen my paper memories drift too far away.

In allowing myself to settle on being an infp, I have become interested in discovering my enneagram type to deepen my understanding of myself, why I differ from some infp's as well. I am fairly certain I am a core 9w1 with a 4w5 fix as well, but my sub type and tritype is still a mystery. I read a description of 459 long ago, which I fully identified with, but I know now that this type is rare, and it is more often than not a mistake infp's make. I would agree that I identify too highly with my introversion, but I too identify with how invisible the 459 seems, how depleted my energy becomes making me feel wispy. Knowing more about 5, it sounds very much like Ti, so I am unsure. The 459 must exist somewhere. I do struggle with much self doubt, so perhaps I am a 946, but triple self doubts seems like more than I need. I am just so often resistant to being part of communities or trusting authority to identify well with a 6. I prefer to live my own way, not be bound to a society and it's ideology. I have never, even as a child identified with my culture which put me at odds with a conservative family. I don't know what an introverted 7 may look like. My life may be too stable to be a 7, yet I have an assortment of left behind crafts. The descriptions from ocean-Moonshine mention that 7s develop multiple skills. None of them really feel like me, so I at least know that my head type is weakest.

I tried to make this thread to get help working out my tritype instead of impressing too much of myself somewhere else. Some gentle suggestions may help at least. Please let me know if I have gone astray.
Taking into account everything I read from you thus far, INFP seems like a good typing, honestly. You have a very introspective, non-intrusive vibe (the intrusive vibe would be more typical of Fe types) and you can talk in length consistently about your inner feelings and experiences.

I'm sought on 94x, but 945 is a triple withdrawn tritype. Do you relate to being so withdrawn and disconnected from the outer world? I have an example of 459 tritype in my mind who is an artist (core 4w5 though), who is PJ Harvey.
 
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Well, in general, gentle I am not. But, do not fear, exposure and disintegration is required to reintegrate. The Phoenix must burn to be reborn.

I am well versed at typing people just with their writing samples.

You do strike me as 94 and 5 or 6 for tertiary is hardly a massive question, yes? If I had to guess for you, I feel some of the ephemeral fairy 7 in you and a rather surprising dose of resentment 1. So, I would offer you 9w1, 4w5, 6w7 and sp/sx/so in stacking.

Welcome!
Thank you for your response and evaluation of my typing, gently or not. I have been reflecting on the 6 and 7 qualities I think I may see in myself. I have never been rebellious enough to call myself anti authority however indifferent I may be to leadership. I recognize a dependent tendency I possess, a separation anxiety, as I tend to be very timid on my own. I wonder if this is why I feel so withdrawn. The ephemeral fairy quality I can tell I do seem to convey, and something I identify with when reading about the qualities of the 947, so maybe that wing is what I feel in my moments of lightness, the playfulnesss that seeps from me as I let myself skip over a puddle in the rain like a girl. Perhaps it is but a shadow of myself that seeps from a wishful imagination that still longs to glimpse faeries playing in the bushes, the longing of wanderlust that takes my mind far away. Only in a misty form does my adventurous urge take, quieted by a fear of my own fragility. In 7 I can see how I have explored, how I have retreated to my cocoon and emerged with new wings many times. I only fly within though, looking not for a land that exists, but my own Neverland. My thinking can be magical, yet I hold fears that keep me from believing that I can survive without a hand holding mine, one that will take me on this adventure.

I digress though. I appreciate your typing and will consider this more deeply. You may be quite right, but I must study more.

Taking into account everything I read from you thus far, INFP seems like a good typing, honestly. You have a very introspective, non-intrusive vibe (the intrusive vibe would be more typical of Fe types) and you can talk in length consistently about your inner feelings and experiences.

I'm sought on 94x, but 945 is a triple withdrawn tritype. Do you relate to being so withdrawn and disconnected from the outer world? I have an example of 459 tritype in my mind who is an artist (core 4w5 though), who is PJ Harvey.
Thank you again. That helps me feel more at ease in my self typing as an infp to understand what it is you sense of me, especially since I was once typed as infj, but when I tried to behave this way I felt inside out. My awkward and uncomfortable attempts to use Fe must have been painfully apparent to others. I have never done well in sharing social atmospheres and exchanging feelings with others in casual ways. There is something insubstantial about my presence I think, something faded and unable to reach out, yet I don't know that I seek to extend myself.
I read a couple interviews with the artist you mentioned since I did not know who she was, which all spoke of her extreme reticence. She also told how she does not like to be vulnerable on stage, which I can all relate to, yet she seem a little more confident in herself than I. It was also said that she does not speak to her fans or talk about her lyrics. In my online presence as an artist I find that I share so little really and often vanish for months as I dwell within introspections, but there is a little more depth to my reasons. If I were to express myself fully my family would not understand. I consider my spiritually to be closest to something pagan, but I have explored further than this through other philosophies that give respect to nature. I would secretly prefer to let myself believe in magic and faeries though. My family is comfortable in their thinking and I fear I would unravel something for them. My husband once told me, when I asked him why others don't really seem to speak to me, that they might be intimidated, that I am somewhat closed off and unfriendly. I have softened this exterior I believe because I was so surprised that I was seen this way. Maybe it was just my shyness or my Fi that makes me appear this way to others.
I do have a disconnect from people, really only seeking relationship with my husband and nature. I don't keep in contact with my family in ways they would prefer, checking in only occasionally. I think my mother may be an esfj, and she is often commenting how quiet I am and how little I tend to share. So it would seem my 1 resentment is apparent once more. When I introduce myself it should be followed by an apology for my mother issues.

Just knowing that I have not led myself astray in being an Infp means so much to me. My feet have found grounds below me, and my thoughts are more at rest. I don't know how this got so long. I am glad it will at least be buried in these pages and hopefully never found.
 
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