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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
@Miss Scarlet

I'll just jump right in.

No no no no......... The problem is a religious one. Religions cause SO many freaking problems. It is a mass delusion nothing more.
Unsupported assertion. Justify somehow that religion is merely a mass delusion, and/or that it in and of itself causes "SO many freaking problems." Please use logic and reason instead of generalizations. The latter are not accepted in debate.

Honestly I don't care if I group them all together, what Christians believe in is against what I know my rights to be and many other people’s rights as well.
I care seriously about human rights, and I have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

You say am I'm immoral, but I can use actual science to explain why those beliefs exist in the first place.
Then by all means, enlighten us. I also don't recall ever calling you immoral, but my detail memory is pretty bad.

Even if you are more of a go with the flow type Christian, you're being a hypocrite by having that very attitude.
I had no idea. Good thing I can rely on you to tell me how my personal convictions are hypocritical. I mean, I've certainly never read the bible or done years of personal study on Christian doctrine.

So anyone who buys into the idea that your 2000 year old book has more factual weight to it than all the science you could ever ask for is ridiculous.
There we can agree. I won't challenge that one.

Story book? Or facts? You choose.
That's kinda the point. I don't hate on you for choosing differently than me. Christians acting like you are acting now are why people hate Christians. You don't see me generalizing atheists, agnostics, or anyone else that doesn't share my beliefs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I like the color red; you like the color blue. Let's fight about it.
No, let's debate about it. On another thread, though. This one's about religion. Kthanx.
 

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Well, I was raised Christian, but for as long as I can remember, I always had questions that were met with answers that didn't make sense. I got vague responses like "he always was and always will be". That didn't sit well with me. As I got older, I learned to trust my intuition greatly and I've come to believe that if something doesn't sound right, it probably isn't true. So, that led me to the point of deciding I am agnostic.

We understand that space is endless, right? But how do we KNOW outer space is endless? We don't know for sure. So, when our knowledge has gone as far as it can go, it leaves us with only 2 choices; faith in a higher being, or faith in science. Either way, we have to have faith in order to believe in one if those two theories because neither can be proven.

Therefore, I don't think it's fair for those who believe in a higher being to judge those who don't as devil worshipers or lost souls believing in nothing; and I don't think it's fair for those who believe in science to judge those who believe in a higher being as unintelligent, judgmental, hypocrites, etc. Everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want as long as they don't oppress others.

Eta: I have been exploring the third option...combining science and spirituality, which might be the answer for me, we shall see :)
 

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I was raised Roman Catholic. The values and ideals in the religion have definitely played an important role in my growth and understanding of the world.

As I grew older, studying history and science did help me understand the flaws and negative views of what religion has done over time.

Random Digression: The time of the Holy Wars and the Dark Ages were largely influenced by the Catholic Church. Learning that the masses of health problems during the Dark Ages were caused by the Catholic Church disgracing the idea of "bathing in public" as sinful really made me rethink the values of my religion. Prior to the Dark Ages, Ancient Rome invested a lot of technology into their public sewage and bath systems. Their health was at the peak and disease wasn't as prevalent and endemic as compared to the Dark Ages.

Learning things like this helped me re-frame my idea of religion. Sometimes their idea of what's "right" and "wrong" in the long ago past caused a lot more trouble than help. :p

I value religion in my life as a guide for values and moral teaching on a personal level. It's pretty basic ideals: Don't lie, cheat, covet, kill, steal, etc.

But I keep it to myself and feel that people should seek their own happiness with whatever means of knowledge, faith, etc suits them. :)
 

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Chatterbox, MOTM August 2013
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So, when our knowledge has gone as far as it can go, it leaves us with only 2 choices; faith in a higher being, or faith in science.
I agree 100%, except with this part.

I have yet to see how science and religion are mutually exclusive, at least from a Christian standpoint.
 

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I agree 100%, except with this part.

I have yet to see how science and religion are mutually exclusive, at least from a Christian standpoint.
I was just going to say, I have been rethinking God because of this concept. @Blocklos has some really great thoughts on combining science and Christianity.
 

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I have yet to see how science and religion are mutually exclusive, at least from a Christian standpoint.
QFT
Perhaps the very nature of a two sided debate is what forces the opposing nature of this. People put people in definable boxes.
In reality, it's not so black and white. My problem is others assuming because I'm a Christian, I do not believe in proven science.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I actually dislike calling my faith a "religion", although I suppose it technically is. I have a zero-tolerance policy for tradition, which is a big part of "religion." That valuing of tradition over spirituality is a human concept. Jesus made every effort to curb this tendency, but it seems like humanity in general didn't get that memo.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QFT
Perhaps the very nature of a two sided debate is what forces the opposing nature of this. People put people in definable boxes.
In reality, it's not so black and white. My problem is others assuming because I'm a Christian, I do not believe in proven science.
The debate title came because I'm anticipating one with Miss Scarlet. Otherwise, this can be a discussion.

I also take issue with the assumption you mentioned. It annoys the hell out of me, TBH. I'm pretty sure we can believe in proven science.
 
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A few favorites:

Man created god in his own image, because he was afraid to be alone in the dark.

He who makes extraordinary claims, must provide extraordinary proof.

A lack of belief in something, barring supporting evidence to the contrary, should be the default.

I am the closest thing to god that I have ever encountered, you are too.
 

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A lack of belief in something, barring supporting evidence to the contrary, should be the default.
Actually, it would technically be more wise to default to believing in God because if there is one, you could be effed. However, if there isn't one and you defaulted to believing in him, then what do you have to lose? That said, I'm not a believer as of now; I'm also not a solid disbeliever either.
 

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Actually, it would technically be more wise to default to believing in God because if there is one, you could be effed. However, if there isn't one and you defaulted to believing in him, then what do you have to lose? That said, I'm not a believer as of now; I'm also not a solid disbeliever either.
That is actually a logical fallacy that has been debated over the years. It's called "Pascal's Wager". The gist is that if there were really an all powerful god, then you can't very well "fool" it by pretending to believe if you don't. There's much more to the proof, but that is a good place to start with it. ;)
 

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Actually, it would technically be more wise to default to believing in God because if there is one, you could be effed. However, if there isn't one and you defaulted to believing in him, then what do you have to lose? That said, I'm not a believer as of now; I'm also not a solid disbeliever either.

You're paraphrasing Pascal's Wager here.

EDIT: I was ninja'd.
 
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