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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My two best friends are an INFP and an ENTJ. I get along with both of them great; the INFP because she is creative and fun, and the ENTJ because she's logical and driven. The problem is that these two seem to get into a fight every time I'm not there to mediate.
Today at lunch for instance they were talking about the new band shirts (the INFP is in Marching band), which say REVOLUTION with a fist holding a music note and some red bursts of sunshine... they started talking about whether or not it looked communist. Typical...
According to my INFP friend, Ms. ENTJ became insistent that red was a communist color and that it should have been changed to a blue or an orange. Apparently, she was overly oppinionated, stoic, and unrelenting on the subject to a point where my INFP couldn't take it any more and tried to whesel her way out of the conversation by going to say hi to a couple friends across the quad. Which seriously offended my ENTJ friend who has a history of making something out of nothing.
According to my ENTJ friend, she was just having a normal conversation about whether or not the band shirt was communist when Ms. INFP insulted her and ran off to go be with another group of friends! Later she said the reason she was so insistant was because INFP wouldn't even consider her side of the argument.
What I want to know is if this is a common theme in ENTJ/INFP relationships. And is there a way I can help?
 

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Obsessing over a colour? Making something out of nothing? Sounds more like an ESTJ issue. A stressed one mind you. Perhaps that'll be the first move in solving the conflict. :happy:
 

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I've been studying socionics for the past week or so, so bear with me ;)

What you're describing is actually running along the lines of what socionics predicts will come out of a supervisory relationship. Relations between ENTJ and INFP are inherently unequal. ENTJ plays role of Supervisor and INFP plays role of Supervisee. Supervisee starts off seeing Supervisor as an admirable but somewhat confusing person, but at the same time Supervisee feels as if controlled by them. Supervisee senses that Supervisor is somehow higher up in social status than them. Supervisor sees Suerpvisee as interesting person, so there is mutual attraction, but not complete. Supervisor is able to hit Supervisee's weak point but not vice versa. Even if Supervisor doesn't make conscious effort towards it, by virtue of being who he/she is Supervisor will indeed hit the Supervisee's weak points inadvertently. This will prompt the Supervisee to retaliate, especially if there are other people in vicinity to make an illusion of breaking out of Supervisor's control. Supervisee can eventually come to see the Supervisor as evil incarnate.

Basically your ENTJ friend is simply hitting your INFP friend's weak spot just by virtue of his personality. ENTJ is not aware of it to correct it. INFP is very sensitive over it hence the retaliation and conflict. How to reconcile them besides teaching them socionics and asking them to look beyond it I do not know. You can devise some sort of strategy to explain to your INFP friend that ENTJ isn't doing it on purpose. And teach INFP to be more secure in the weak points.

I've been in these Supervisory kind of relationship before where I was playing role of Supervisor. And yes the Supervisees start retaliating against me for reasons I do not understand. They first put me on pedestal then become resentful of it. Takes anywhere from a few months to a few years for it to unfold, so erm, yeah, not going there any more. Thing is though that mutual attraction in these kinds of friendships and relationships can develop fast, so they are quite common, but over long period of time it can grow into love-hate kind of deal.
 

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sounds estj...maybe not though... hard to tell. I personally and generally get along with entjs pretty damn well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You all are so insightful!

Knives, I do believe that she is an ENTJ but you are dead on about the stress part! Both of these ladies have overly filled scheduals that have been constantly grating at them for the past month. I'm sure that is half of the conflict!

Vel- I've never heard of this socionics before, but the supervisor/supervisee sounds correct. The only things that I'd like to add is that the ENTJ feels offended also. More often than not, I'd supose ENTJ hits INFPs weak spot and then INFP shoots back with something that never and I mean NEVER fails to irk ENTJ.

And Neutron- that's very mature of you:proud:
 

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Vel- I've never heard of this socionics before, but the supervisor/supervisee sounds correct. The only things that I'd like to add is that the ENTJ feels offended also. More often than not, I'd supose ENTJ hits INFPs weak spot and then INFP shoots back with something that never and I mean NEVER fails to irk ENTJ.
When Supervisees retaliate the Supervisor often may not understand why - often the Supervisor sees himself/herself as just being a good friend and has no idea about the storm brewing in the Supervisee. The Supervisor then feels that the Supervisee is hostile for no good reason. Supervisee may try to bring out the worst in the Supervisor with his retaliatory remarks - your INFP friend found out what irks the ENTJ and shoots it back at him to provoke a negative reaction.

Socionics is a slightly different system to interpret how Jung's cognitive functions translate to behavior. MBTI is one such system, Keirsey is another one, I dunno may be there are some others people developed. Socionics is more rigid in descriptions, profiles are a bit less rosy, there is no test to take like with MBTI - there is also a lot of information about relations between types and how they perceive each other.
 

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My two best friends are an INFP and an ENTJ. I get along with both of them great; the INFP because she is creative and fun, and the ENTJ because she's logical and driven. The problem is that these two seem to get into a fight every time I'm not there to mediate.
Today at lunch for instance they were talking about the new band shirts (the INFP is in Marching band), which say REVOLUTION with a fist holding a music note and some red bursts of sunshine... they started talking about whether or not it looked communist. Typical...
According to my INFP friend, Ms. ENTJ became insistent that red was a communist color and that it should have been changed to a blue or an orange. Apparently, she was overly oppinionated, stoic, and unrelenting on the subject to a point where my INFP couldn't take it any more and tried to whesel her way out of the conversation by going to say hi to a couple friends across the quad. Which seriously offended my ENTJ friend who has a history of making something out of nothing.
According to my ENTJ friend, she was just having a normal conversation about whether or not the band shirt was communist when Ms. INFP insulted her and ran off to go be with another group of friends! Later she said the reason she was so insistant was because INFP wouldn't even consider her side of the argument.
What I want to know is if this is a common theme in ENTJ/INFP relationships. And is there a way I can help?
Sounds more like an ESTJ thing. I get along pretty well with the only INFP I've ever met (good/relaxed conversations etc). However, When we first met I made a joke at her expense (just the usual ENTJ Wit, not intended to be taken seriously) and got the impression I had offended her. I'm not really sure about other ENTJ's but I really hate hurting the feelings of people I see as vulnerable and undeserving so I asked her if she was offended (she said yes) and I told her that if I say anything like that in the future she can/should call me out on the spot without worrying about hurting my feelings and I would apologize/make a better effort to avoid another situation. Since then I've gotten a better idea of how to maintain good friendships with INFx types so there really havn't been any further issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
McFly- i think you have a wonderful solution! It would be difficult for my easily insulted friends to commit to, but I shall propose this logical plan none the less...

assbuscuits- I don't understand.

I've deduced that the problem is stress related...they always fight at the begining of the school year when clubs and band practice start up, which is our second most stressful time of the year (right after exam week...month). This makes perfect sense to me- ENTJ is arguing off steam/ INFP is already a little frustrated and annoyed before the conversation begins.

Also, there is an update in the friendship. As of today, i convinced ENTJ to call and talk to INFP about the conflict. INFP said there wasn't one (even though it was obvious the day before). ENTJ thinks she just forgives and forgets quickly, but I think she is just trying to put it behind her...(which wont solve anything in the long run. These arguments are becoming increasingly frequent)

Any comments on the progression?

P.S.- thank you all for the great examples and advise. It's nice to know that the friendship still has potential. :proud:
and no, she isn't an ESTJ:tongue:
 

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What makes you think not?

You come onto the ENTJ board and several of us suggest she displays characteristics more in line with another type, why are you so quick to discount this?
 

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Another question should be asked, where are you from Yeomen and is there something just really wrong with the color red?

If you're from the U.S., I have to agree with Knives on this, she sounds very ESTJ. Strong feelings towards anti-communism seems to fit the right wing, protestant, ultra Republican stereotype and very zealous. Maintaining this type of zeal towards an ideology seems characteristic of the SJ community. An ENTJ will question ideologies and study both sides of the coin.

I can see an ENTJ strongly opposing communism if they're a professional economist but it would never boil down to colors on a shirt.

Anyways, on to your question:

ESTJ's and ENTJ's do have a similar way of arguing since we're both Te dominant. Here's a good article to understand how and why we argue. This might give you some good insight:

King on the Mountain
 

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An ENTJ will question ideologies and study both sides of the coin.
I agree.

In fact ideologies, politics, religion and ethics are topics my INFP boyfriend and I discuss upon most frequently. We disagree on a lot of things, but we share the same attitude while talking - we respect eachother and we stay open-minded. If I would take offence as your supposed ENTJ friend did everytime my INFP says something or does something I don't agree to/approve, I would probably have had broken up with him long time ago^^.

Most of our conversations go like this:

Me: bla bla bla, I am right about something, bla bla bla.
INFP: Oh, geee, why? Please, do explain.
Me: bla bla bla, because bla bla bla.
INFP: I see, but bla bla bla.
Me:Hmmm... I see your piont, but bla bla bla
INFP:Hmmm... bla bla bla bla? Have you no heart?
Me: Hmmm...but imagine if bla bla bla!
INFP: Pffff, that's a bullcrap. Imagine that bla bla bla.
Me:Hmm...
...

We talk like this for hours. Sometimes we switch places - he says something and then I get puzzeled and ask for explanation.

When people hear us talking, we both may seem very argumentative, as if we were constatnly fighting with one another, but it is not true, because we both play fair. It happens from time to time that some of our mutual friends is trying to "moderate" us and make us "now say sorry to one another and kiss", but then we both respond with smiles - "but we are not fighting".

Strangely enough, we agree on most topics concerning everyday life [hehehehehe, things of lesser importance] like what to eat or where to go and what to do.

Oh, and by the way, we both grew up in a communist state, but none of us is conservative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Knives- I took ESTJ into consideration and it's difficult to tell a difference... I see what you mean by the ESTJ, but maybe I've just seen her as an ENTJ for so long it's hard to tell.
My friendship standpoint is a little biased. I like saying my BFF has the same personality type as Nixon... it's a great conversation starter :tongue:
I'm thinking she's an ENTJ, but I'll keep considering it-

Also I'd like to mention that my first little description may have been a lot biased. So let me clarify. ENTJ didn't give a rats butt about the shirt, but was simply stating how it COULD have been interpreted as communism...she likes to play devils advocate. :dry:

Troisi- thanks for the article...it made so much sense! And no, we're not in a communist state. Also, she is a moderate republican, but I think it's more of an influense from her right wing family more than anything. I've confronted her about a couple of her ideas involving politics and the sort and she does consider my side of the coin (or pretends to).

Zinette- thank you so much for the post- THERE IS HOPE!!!
 

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Basically your ENTJ friend is simply hitting your INFP friend's weak spot just by virtue of his personality. ENTJ is not aware of it to correct it. INFP is very sensitive over it hence the retaliation and conflict. How to reconcile them besides teaching them socionics and asking them to look beyond it I do not know. You can devise some sort of strategy to explain to your INFP friend that ENTJ isn't doing it on purpose. And teach INFP to be more secure in the weak points.
It seems to me the ENTJ was being the over-sensitive one and the INFP left the situation to get away from unnecessary drama....but then I heard more details on this in another (same topic) thread in the INFP section...

Not to mention, socionics INFP = NiFe, not FiNe, and socionics cognitive functions are defined differently enough for them not to align with MBTI neatly.
 

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This has nothing to do with your situation in specific, but I'm an ENTJ student with an 85 year old INFP algebra teacher.
Things don't work out at all between us.
I'm isolated in the back of the class, three chapters ahead of everyone else, bored as hell because she's not even paying attention to me, let alone giving me the amount of work I desire at the right pace. D:
Not to mention half the time we argue over this.
It's terrible, really.
 

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I'm INFP and my recent ex bf is ENTJ. We could get along for the most part really well, but when a conflict situation arose, he would state something logical and matter-of-factly, and it would cause me to have a sharp emotional reaction where I thought he was attacking me.

Here's a perfect example:
Over a year ago my car was broken into; window smashed, iPod and cds stolen. Boyfriend was in driver's seat and I was in passenger's seat, crying. I just felt like my personal space was violated.

BF looked at me crying, and said "It's not a big deal!"

I lost it, got really upset and yelled "Fine, then let's fucking leave!"

In retrospect, we both found out that when he said "It's not a big deal", he was logically stating that I was only losing material possessions, and that I, personally, was unharmed. It was his way of being optimistic. However, I heard his words as a response to me crying and the judgment of "Why the hell are you crying? You're making such a big deal out of nothing!" And of course my feelings were hurt and I felt like he didn't care how I felt, and that he thought I was being ridiculous.

This difference between my F and his TJ was pretty difficult for both of us, and it was something we both made conscious attempts to work on. I had to try to realize that he wasn't making personal attacks on me and try to have a thicker skin, and he tried to be more gentle and consider my feelings when stating his opinion. Just understanding where the other person is coming from is a big help.
 

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I'm INFP and my recent ex bf is ENTJ. We could get along for the most part really well, but when a conflict situation arose, he would state something logical and matter-of-factly, and it would cause me to have a sharp emotional reaction where I thought he was attacking me.

Here's a perfect example:
Over a year ago my car was broken into; window smashed, iPod and cds stolen. Boyfriend was in driver's seat and I was in passenger's seat, crying. I just felt like my personal space was violated.

BF looked at me crying, and said "It's not a big deal!"

I lost it, got really upset and yelled "Fine, then let's fucking leave!"

In retrospect, we both found out that when he said "It's not a big deal", he was logically stating that I was only losing material possessions, and that I, personally, was unharmed. It was his way of being optimistic. However, I heard his words as a response to me crying and the judgment of "Why the hell are you crying? You're making such a big deal out of nothing!" And of course my feelings were hurt and I felt like he didn't care how I felt, and that he thought I was being ridiculous.

This difference between my F and his TJ was pretty difficult for both of us, and it was something we both made conscious attempts to work on. I had to try to realize that he wasn't making personal attacks on me and try to have a thicker skin, and he tried to be more gentle and consider my feelings when stating his opinion. Just understanding where the other person is coming from is a big help.
I think this is benefit of knowing MBTI. After learning about this system and dealing with some INFx's I gained a good grasp of how things affect them. A good example of this would be any situation where something happens to them and jokes are being made. Normally I can usually think of a few witty jokes to throw on but instead (for some odd reasons I can't really label) I start to see how the situation probably affects their self esteem and social shyness(these seem to be things they think about a fair bit). He probably just isn't fully aware of the depth of your ''feeling-ness'' because he see's you as someone who could(or should) be a more logical person when it really comes to to temperament
 
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