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Discussion Starter #1
This is a bit of a point of curiosity for me, since it's not really a "subtype" that's covered much, with Nines broadly being painted as easy-going, simplistic daydreamers and "average nice people". I do think this is a fair assessment, but it's an exceptionally superficial one. (There are some egregious insults out there, though, like R&H's page on "9s vs 5s" which paints 9s as simple idiots...)

One problem I had with self-typing as a 9 was that there really wasn't anything in the material I had at my disposal covering what an intellectual 9 might be like. Most of it covers people-related stuff, which is pretty useless to me.

I think it would be very interesting to talk about this "blind spot" of all manner of thinking 9s, some historical examples (like Jung), and especially what characterises the thoughts of 9s, if indeed there is any characteristic. (From Jung and from myself I wonder if there isn't something of a half-dreaming, half-logical approach to reason; for example Jung's eccentric notions about "meaning".)
 

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MOTM Nov 2012
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I agree that view is a superficial assessment, but one that we generally allow to form, even if we don't love it.

Intellectual and nine aren't related per say but I object to intellectual and nine being in contradiction. It's not uncommon for us to mistype as head type of 5 which is well known for its intellectualism, something that is just as easily there for us, it simply comes after the main desire of peace keeping, which can result imo with us downplaying the intellectual aspect in order to not disrupt things.

I've never really considered myself "intellectual" but I can acknowledge that compared to the average schmo I understand things quicker and easier than most. I simply do not get too drawn into states of ego where one must be intellectually superior. Dunno, the average 9 isn't a NT, who more than other types prize that state, but when they are one it adds an element of humility that seems to need to downplay that aspect ime, which makes it rare to find as a topic, and difficult to dicuss when raised.
 

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Socratic Irony.

I'm an nine and an intellectual for whatever that claim is worth.
I don't believe it's a contradictory statement, just that we don't become as rigidly defined in our intellectual image.
We still morph and seek to understand than make claims and fight with proving ourselves.
Socratic Irony is a concept key to the intellectual nine.
We are painted as being Sages, reminiscent of Buddha, simple perhaps at first glance but no one would deny our inner complexity.
Just try to get to know us or if one of us try to get to know yourself.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
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Hmm...

Well I guess I kinda fall into this category. I feel like it might be more of an NT thing, though. Still, I mistyped as 5 at first because as a Thinker I didn't want to admit how much peace meant to me. Creating harmony and being a peacemaker sounded too Feelery for me at first. I'm "smart" and quick at solving puzzles and such, but I don't really have the thirst for knowledge that an N might. Only in very select areas. If someone is NT and/or has 5 in their tritype, I would expect a bit more of an intellectual air about them.
 

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(From Jung and from myself I wonder if there isn't something of a half-dreaming, half-logical approach to reason; for example Jung's eccentric notions about "meaning".)
I can relate to that, for sure. Intellectualism as an escape. I'm a student now, so learning is sort of a nagging thing for me-- something hard I have to buckle down and do. In the summers and on breaks (and generally when I'm not confined to a schedule) a lot more thinking happens. :D

Don't know how that connects to what other people here have been saying. Just throwing it out there.
 

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The stereotypical Nine has their head in the clouds, and intellectuals are known for that as well, are they not? :tongue: Plus I think a lot of Nines can research things as an escape, as getting caught up in less important things to avoid doing things that might be less pleasant (see my signature). And I frequently get lost in my head, often to the point that sometimes reality seems less real than what's going on internally. It can get pretty surreal on the rare occasion it lasts more than a day, feeling like I'm not *in* my body, or feeling like what I do outside my head will have no consequence because it just doesn't seem real.

As @Sonny said there's also an element of humility I often see in NT Nines that I see somewhat less of in other NT types. It's not 100% consistent, of course. I would say one thing that seems to be a pattern when the intellectual superiority complex does show itself - or maybe I'm just speaking for myself here - is that the concentration is more on being annoyed by people who are not acting intelligently rather than a focus on their own intelligence - "these dumb people annoy me" as opposed to "I'm superior to these dumb people". I can think of one or two exceptions, though.

I actually went through a period for a while of doubting whether I was an INTJ because while intelligence is a big part of how I see myself, I don't wave it in people's faces either. Granted, at the time I was comparing myself to some of the typical new-to-the-INTJ section crowd who gets caught up in the intellectual superiority self-image, something I'm certainly not blameless of, but some people just take it to an extreme. (I'm still not 100% certain what my type is, but it's almost always what I end up with when I review cognitive functions, so... *shrugs*)

Oops, tangent check.

I think Quin Sabe actually said it much more concisely:

I don't believe it's a contradictory statement, just that we don't become as rigidly defined in our intellectual image.
I did type myself as a Five for a while. Even though it's not even in my tri-type, the withdrawn tendencies still resonate very strongly with me. I relate to pretty much all of this (not-that-great) description of Fives:

"I don't like invasive or overly emotional people, especially those who are angry or aggressive. I tend to be self-reliant and keep my problems to myself. Routines such as eating, sleeping, or changing my clothes become relatively unimportant when I'm reading or concentrating on one of my projects. I often feel shy and uncomfortable around people. I feel more at ease expressing my thoughts than my feelings. I enjoy spending a lot of my time alone. I generally wait for people to approach me instead of approaching them. Occasionally I feel righteous enough to become angry. I am better able to experience how I feel about something afterward, when I am alone. I don't like social functions: parties and small talk don't appeal to me except with people I know well. I don't like to be asked broad, general questions about myself. I like being appreciated for my knowledge. I try not to be involved with confrontations. I don't usually want people to know how I feel or what I'm thinking unless I tell them. When others try to regulate my life, I feel frantic and angry. I can be cynical and argumentative. I usually work things out in my mind before I talk about them; I often hesitate while I try to order my thoughts and may not speak at all if I can't perfect what I want to say. At times, I wish I had better social skills. People sometimes find it difficult to follow my train of thought. I have little interest in most social conventions."
I think perhaps it was because @antiant (sure wish she'd come back), who is a Five, was always talking about autonomy that that part of it also stood out to me. I absolutely cannot stand when people volunteer me for things (something they have no place or right to do, as much as I hate using the term "right" in that manner), or expect me to do things, or just order me around, without doing me the courtesy of asking. That's probably the quickest way to enrage me, short of getting me riled up on the topic of bullying. :p

One other thing I will mention is that I think part of when I do emphasize my intelligence, which I will admit to doing often, it's not usually in a superior sort of way, more just in a I want to be recognized as standing out for something, and this is the one way in which I've always been told I stand out kind of manner, if that makes sense. And I once heard someone say that there are two main types of social currency - the first is attractiveness, the second intelligence. I've stated before I consider myself unconventionally attractive, but I'm certainly not a knock-out by standard societal measure (random side note: I've always had the tendency to find something attractive about almost anyone when other people fail to see it, which seems Nine-ish).

As for Nines not being intellectuals, @Svidrigailov once said:

If anyone ever throws out the stereotype about Nines being lazy, out-of-it, and unproductive, hit them with the Lagrange card:
Joseph Louis Lagrange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stranger uses "Stereotype."
Stereotype poisons minds!
Napoleptic uses "Lagrange."
It's super-effective!
Stranger has fainted!
The Poison was removed by "Lagrange!"

(Yes!!! Finally had an excuse to post that. I've wanted to for ages - makes me chuckle to myself every time I think about it. :tongue:)

/extremely rambly post
 

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Hmm...

Well I guess I kinda fall into this category. I feel like it might be more of an NT thing, though. Still, I mistyped as 5 at first because as a Thinker I didn't want to admit how much peace meant to me. Creating harmony and being a peacemaker sounded too Feelery for me at first. I'm "smart" and quick at solving puzzles and such, but I don't really have the thirst for knowledge that an N might. Only in very select areas. If someone is NT and/or has 5 in their tritype, I would expect a bit more of an intellectual air about them.

Same here!
Anyway, I don't suppose there's a direct correlation between being a nine and being intellectual. Neither positive nor negative.
5 is second in my tritype and I'm an INTP and most people automatically assume I'm smart.
I suppose I give off both a calm 9ish vibe as well as an intellectual 5ish vibe.
 

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I forgot what I was originally going to say :frustrating: which is that while I may be intellectually curious, I think it would be a mighty big stretch to say I'm an intellectual. Or at least in the normal sense, my definition is a bit different - I tend to think of intellectual as enjoying mental stimulation, and in that case, I definitely fall into that category. But I'm definitely not some cerebral powerhouse or anything like that. :p

There, I think I've remembered everything. :rolleyes: I believe I mentioned the 9 epic style of talking recently... :tongue:
 
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Meh, I don't fancy myself intelligent, but I guess I'd call myself an intellectual person because I tend to be curious and thoughtful. I'm also more rational-natured than not, you know, I rely on my logic more than feelings.
 

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Intelligence has nothing at all to do with enneatype. But how does being An Intellectual relate to being a 9? I can see that the 9s sense of deep worthlessness and inferiority could result in them trying to create value through the creation of such an image. Or perhaps in trying to solve their feeling of disconnection and alienation from the heart of reality, from love, they may turn to intellectual pursuits in order to explain themselves, existence, the universe, in an attempt to amend their disconnection. The same can be said about spiritual 9s looking for engulfment in a "higher power."

I think level of health would determine the actual quality of Intellectual thought. Perhaps lower level 9s, who are still generally asleep to their being, could use thoughts as an escape from themselves. Their thoughts would not be penetrating to the heart of the subject, but would rather be hazy and circular, retreating yawningly at signs of intensity or truth. At the higher levels 9s can have a deep, gut understanding of the nature of existence, the void, love, and can develop complex and highly intuitive systems of thought (Jung).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I should have clarified what I meant by "intellectual"; thanks Ylajali. By intellectual, I mean one who thinks and talks or writes about the abstract, philosophical, or esoteric. Intellectualism, as an incidental trait, is usually mentioned alongside of Fives, and not Nines, who are usually painted with a decidedly non-intellectual palette.

I actually think it's this "incidental traits" thing that is the root of the trouble. We associate "intellectualism" with 5s, just because that's the type such behaviours or even a lifestyle is associated with.
 

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9s are just as intellectual on average as any other type. We're just more likely to be modest about it and less likely to 'show off' our intellects. For type 5s, their intellectual side is a sort of defense mechanism. So people are much more likely to notice that a 5 is an intellectual. It's a more central aspect of their personalities.

Where as for 9s, intellectual pursuits are more of a side project and not an integral part of who we are.
 

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9s are just as intellectual on average as any other type. We're just more likely to be modest about it and less likely to 'show off' our intellects. For type 5s, their intellectual side is a sort of defense mechanism. So people are much more likely to notice that a 5 is an intellectual. It's a more central aspect of their personalities.

Where as for 9s, intellectual pursuits are more of a side project and not an integral part of who we are.
I tend to agree that 9's are just as likely to be intellectuals as other types (except type 5's maybe). I'm not sure I agree with the "side project" statement though. I'm a type 9 and I also consider myself as being somewhat intellectual. Not a genius certainly, but I do well enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I agree that 9's are as likely to be intellectual as most other types, for those who are it may still be a very important part of them. They may well be an exception though. In my case, lets say I spent a length of time thinking I was a type 4 or 5, have a type 1 wing AND am INTP so for me intellectual curiosity is a given.
 

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(There are some egregious insults out there, though, like R&H's page on "9s vs 5s" which paints 9s as simple idiots...)
Wow! am I glad I'm not the only one who thought that.
 

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This thread is an interesting read because I'm still having trouble figuring out my enneagram type. I'm really torn between 9 and 5 since I can relate to both very well. As an INTJ I don't feel this "need for intellectual superiority" as some would like to believe, but if something doesn't flow well or make sense to me I won't hesitate to point it out, and my main goal in life is like a serious intellectual pursuit or something like that. Most of the time I use logic to reason with people I'm arguing with, and I end up finding some sort of common ground with them most of the time. I think that any type could be intellectual if they were motivated enough I guess. With a type like 5 it's just one of the first things you notice about them, while with other types (especially those outside the head triad) it's much more subtle.
 
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