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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all
Of course I myself am INTJ. Often times we come off as assholes and me in particular have very strong opinions that I like to back up with facts. I am very against organized religion, deist, pro-scientifically based beliefs, libertarian, etc. I am very passionate about my beliefs and my values.
On Facebook for example, I have had at least half a dozen different people whom I considered my oldest friends from my high school years unfriend me, block me, etc. based on my posts that are greatly opposite to their beliefs.
This has given me some interesting difficulties when it comes down to dating, attempting to build or maintain friendships, etc.
I am predispositioned to skepticism to the rest of the human species having traces of my beliefs since so many people in civilized society are typically religious in some manner. I guess a good place to start would be here where I can at least get some conversation from people on this topic.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
So you want to talk about yourself?

I don't get it.
Sorry, I was rambling a bit.
To the point, what are other people's (other MBTI types) points of view on this subject when dealing with someone with beliefs such as mine mainly in friendship or dating terms?
 

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Fu Dominant
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Well, obviously I don't know you specifically, so this isn't directed at you, but I've come to realize that often when people say "so-and-so has blocked me/unfriended me/etc for my opinions on this-or-that", they've actually been blocked for another reason. They're not being very personable with those opinions. They're often being confrontational instead. Often "anti-whatever".

A Christian can be a Christian without being anti-atheist, in much the same way an atheist can be atheist without being anti-Christian (or anti-religious in general). Or even if you are anti-whatever, you can have that opinion without being obnoxious about it. Again, I'm not saying this is you, OP.

But being confrontational just in general isn't going to win any hearts over to your side, nor promote a mutual understanding or acceptance, if that's what you're looking for.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I do post on my own page things that I believe in and often times that is all that other people see for activity.
Understand that I'm deployed currently to Afghanistan (yes, we have internet here) and I have take issue whenever I have someone that I cared about growing up suddenly cut ties with me without stating any reason why. I was raised Catholic and so many of my friends were too along with other denominations.
Even when I attempted to maintain ties through communications, some of these former friends of mine just wouldn't respond to a friendly hello.
 

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Ace of Spades
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Beliefs aren't a result of the type of processing functions we use, but the type of data coming in, as well as the quality of the processing. (i.e. The answer you seek isn't MBTI-related).
 

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So you seem to want to discuss how your belief system impacts your more intimate relationships. I would agree that people who come off as confrontational and who use every opportunity to espouse their views that may vehemently contradict my own are no fun to be around. I'll give a (sort of) related example from my life.

A few years ago my best friend started selling a line of nutritional supplements and the like. I listened to her spiel about them once or twice, looked at the catalog, etc and I think I bought one or two things that appealed to me. Then I was done - I had done my friendship duty. It got to the point that every time I mentioned to her that I had an upset stomach or a headache or I had been tired lately, she brought up one of her supplements that would help me. I finally had to sit her down and tell her that not every conversation was an opportunity for a sales pitch. Sometimes I just wanted to vent to my friend.

I think the same may apply to your situation. Not every interaction with friends (and yes, include fb updates in this category) needs to be you on a soapbox preaching your beliefs. Sometimes it's better just to chill out about it. Of course I'm not saying you should completely subjugate your beliefs because they might offend. But there is a positive way to debate that fosters healthy discussions and can lead to greater understanding and then there's a negative way that leads to nothing, really.

Good luck and keep safe in Afghanistan! Thank you for your service!
 

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To the point, what are other people's (other MBTI types) points of view on this subject when dealing with someone with beliefs such as mine mainly in friendship or dating terms?
Right/wrong is a matter of perspective. I disagree with people because their perspective and assumptions are different than mine. Decent logic usually holds in the physical world... but, all logic is based upon assumptions. Only in idealized worlds do the assumptions hold true because of the definitions that exist within that idealized environment.

If we were friends, I'd probably just argue with you a lot... then at the end, we'd figure out that we agree, because we would dig down to the root assumptions and define those for ourselves. From those root assumptions, the logic and conclusions fall into place for each person.

As for the rest of the world, no, they generally hate having to do that. For me it can be a fun intellectual exercise, most people see it as conflict, which unsettles them. Or they see it as you rejecting their core values as false, which hurts them or causes them to behave defensively.

SJ's are likely to be your worst enemies or best friends. If their values align with yours, they'll love you because you would be able to articulate and understand their values on a deeper level than they do.

NFP's... well they might be attracted to your confidence, but they'll end up hating who you really are once they get to know you.

NFJ's... I think they can handle INTJ's fine, sometimes being friends. NFJ's will hold their own in conversation and bite-back with their own reasoning and logic. It can be sort of intuitive, hazy, Ni+Fe logic, but they'll mount an argument and defend their ideas at least.

SFP's... This could only work if there's a personable side to you... using extroverted sensing? Probably wouldn't work in 95% of the cases.

So yeah... limited selection really. If you're looking for a girlfriend, try to find an ENFJ, I think. I believe the NFP's will be more drawn to you, but you're less likely to satisfy them, and they'll just find someone else.
 

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talk to atheists. any more problems i can solve?
 
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Discussion Starter #10
talk to atheists. any more problems i can solve?
Ahaha, yes that is a preferable approach. Any ideas if there are more atheist females in Europe than in the United States, demographically speaking?

And thank you guys as well for the in depth responses, those are the perspectives I am looking for.
 

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Ahaha, yes that is a preferable approach. Any ideas if there are more atheist females in Europe than in the United States, demographically speaking?
no idea, im in the US and i know that religion has a big place in europe as well as parts of the US, but that doesnt mean that everyone living there follows it. I suggest bringing up religion quickly in the process of dating, that way you can determine if the person is either open minded to you choosing your own path or not religious.
 

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after reading your post, I was so convinced you were my bff...who is also in the military, doesn't like organized religion, always in fights with people on Facebook....may come off as egotistical (I know he really isn't)..... But then I saw your profile picture xD you even write like him. I love that dude... I have never felt more comfortable around anyone. We both have a mutual respect and understanding for each other which is so rare and great. His wife is also one of my closest friends ( enfp).... They have got to be one of the most intuitive open minded people in my life...
If u ever get a chance you should try to find some infp/enfps to connect with xD
 

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I do post on my own page things that I believe in and often times that is all that other people see for activity.
Understand that I'm deployed currently to Afghanistan (yes, we have internet here) and I have take issue whenever I have someone that I cared about growing up suddenly cut ties with me without stating any reason why. I was raised Catholic and so many of my friends were too along with other denominations.
Even when I attempted to maintain ties through communications, some of these former friends of mine just wouldn't respond to a friendly hello.
That's Facebook for you. It has armed people's fear by making relationship breaking a simple click of a button. Conversely how deep are such relationships now? given someone can just hide someone else's posts if they dislike them .
 

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I seem to need to put a disclaimer on every post that I test ENTP and ENTJ - lately more ENTJ. My brother and I are very close, he is an INTJ. (Who thinks I'm an ENTJ and that's the end of it. lol) He has some far out there ideas. He's very smart, but some of his ideas are just so...just whoa. We can argue for hours. Most people just think he's nuts and unfriend him or stop speaking to him. I know that hurts him a lot at first. Some of it's in his delivery. He believes it and he will listen, but he usually ends up insulting the other person somehow without realizing it. I can do the same thing, but (and this is so bizarre to me) in my family I'm the more aware of other people's feelings. I realize when the other person is getting upset and back off. He just doesn't see it. At all. Like a bulldozer with no off switch sometimes. He has an IQ of 150. I know this because he's fond of bringing that up when he doesn't like how the debate is going.

Now, I have two friends who are INTJ. One I love and we've been friends for several years. He has very different beliefs, is born again, PhD in Chemistry and just finished medical school. Brilliant. He is so fun to talk to. He is older, and there is much more an exchange of ideas that happens in debates with him. I've never felt like he was trying to convince me to believe what he was saying. He presents his argument with facts, and expects mine to be the same. We can agree or not and move to the next topic. He is a genius too, with a photographic memory. I could talk to him (and do) for hours and hours and never get bored.

My other INTJ friend is newer, we've been talking for 3 months or so. He's in some ways very stereotypical INTJ, misses figurative speech, very direct, ect. He has some odd beliefs too, mostly against convention. (And I'm using male pronouns. I'm queer - he is a male ID'd butch.) We live far apart and are limited to online communication right now. He has an advanced degree and is also very smart. His arguments are rational and logical. Always. He has changed my mind on some things without expecting me to change my mind. Like good NTs we don't do BS and instead we just jumped into these huge discussions. I'm someone who writes most people off by the middle of conversation two. I can't do that with him. His approach to the conversation has been that he enjoys looking at himself in case there are things that he's missing. It makes me think that if my conclusions were better than his, I could bring him to my side. So far, his are better. I really enjoy my conversations with him. He has an awareness of himself and his shortcomings, that awareness is similar to mine. I approach most debates/conversations the same mentality - I want someone to change my mind. Normally, that doesn't happen, but being open and rational is the key. Swooooon.
 

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Find a girl with similar beliefs. Problem solved.

Landing a girl is more about social skills than beliefs. You think you have potential conflicts as an INTJ? Imagine being an ENTJ. Yet, I'm a bit of a charmer so I can work with about any woman I want despite my beliefs, stubbornness, always right attitude, inclinations towards rational thinking, etc.
 

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I have a piece of advice: don't be a douchebag about what you believe. Like someone else already said, identifying as anti-[insert belief here] comes off as douchebag.

I used to be anti-socialist, anti-atheist, and a whole bunch more anti's. Then I grew up.
 
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I want someone to change my mind. Normally, that doesn't happen, but being open and rational is the key. Swooooon.
See, this is why I love debating. I am very open to having my mind changed if the other person can present a better arguement. In this way I learn and improve myself. But like you said it usually does not happen.
 

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My boyfriend is catholic and I love him dearly. I'm an atheist, and we just don't talk about it. Of course he never talks about his religion, so makes it pretty easy. However, I do want learn everything about him and that includes his religious beliefs, especially if that is a part of him. I feel like everyone should be logical and go with science, but of course nothing worth having in life comes easy.
 

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Sorry, I was rambling a bit.
To the point, what are other people's (other MBTI types) points of view on this subject when dealing with someone with beliefs such as mine mainly in friendship or dating terms?
Usually i use acceptance. It sounds like you tend to like to push your opinion onto people. And that your looking for someone who believes in exactly the same things as you....where is the fun in that? people with different opinions are what makes friendships so alive and fun. Also just because its an opinion doesn't mean its fact. I am an INTP and similar religious views to you......and althou i believe there is no god, that doesn't prevent me from listening to others about their views and opinions, It is actually interesting and very enjoyable to listen to others on their own personal views
 
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