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Okay, I don't need to explain myself, do I? It seems like INTP's are rigged from the beginning to self-destruct, as stupid as it sounds...

Now let me start with this; I wouldn't give up being an INTP, it's the best thing that's happened to me, but at the same time my worst. Let me explain.

As INTP's, we're very nearly opposite of what modern society calls for. Introverted, disorganized, procrastinators, typically unaware of their surroundings, forgetful of small details... you've hear it all. And despite our intellect, we are rarely able to harness the full potential of it.

Now... that's not to say were are useless, I mean, we all know Einstein, Darwin, Curie, and many more. It's what INTP's do. We come up with breakthroughs, new ideas. We strive for change, for something different, however society does not recognize this. Besides, there has been little technological advancement. Well, relatively little. Even when there is, say the EmDrive. A mothaf***ing engine that uses microwaves to ACTUALLY generate thrust. Go around. Ask people if they know about it. I will put money on most not. Or at least not knowing much about it. Maybe, who knows, someone will cure cancer, or some crap. But what does it matter? Hear me out, even if one INTP does have some major breakthrough, what about all the other ones? They're still that nobody up in an office building slaving away at some insignificant work. The problem is, society doesn't recognize these people to their full potential, and what could be some brilliant minds working for a better future, are just some office workers.



And really, that's not the big problem.



What I really want to talk about is what leads up to their career. Mainly-school.

Oh, I should mention, I'm 14, so... make what you will of that.

Ah... school. Public schools really. How do I start... well, let's start with, public school is a failure. It's obvious, isn't it? All it is is memorizing information, and then spitting it back out for some test. Whatever. When do you truly ENGAGE in your learning? When are you ever actively learning in a public school. Granted, some teachers may be exceptions, but as a whole, public schools are... I don't know. They're so... type biased, I guess. Think about it. School will always be easier for an extrovert. And, intuitive's are never used to their full potential, and honestly, it's quite difficult for most intuitive's to pay attention because they're so often in their own minds. I guess thinkers could have an advantage, but feelers tend to have it easier socially... and then the worst part for us INTP's. The P. Taking notes? By God, no. And homework, well we always procrastinate, so that's no fun. Plus it's boring. Organization is difficult as well... I'm running out of steam here. Hang with me. This was though out much nicer in my head.

Hm...okay. INTP's... we find it very difficult to concentrate on things that don't interest us. We miss information in class that will be on a test, and we really just don't care. We want to be stimulated, but school doesn't do that to us. It's boring, repetitive, and just not for us. At all. We want to connect things, but man, when will I ever need to know how to factor a god-damn polynomial?

...

I'm really bad at putting my thoughts into words. Just needed to vent a bit, y'know?

This video is nice though.


A lot of what I was thinking...


Sorry for the awful post, lol.


TLDR; School sucks for us, work sucks for us, childhood growth is not made for us... yup.
 

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Let me put a few things forward as I consider them in relation to what you typed.
school = aimed at the masses, meant to keep the system going as it is. Don't expect it to be there to get the full potential out of you (or any of the other types). It learns you how to think/work/act on an acceptable level to get along in society.

In your working career, but also in everyday life however, we can flourish. We do have value and many companies do recognise it. Especially companies that work on project base, will know the potential of an INTP in a team and will be able to get the maximum out of them if needed. It is the out of the box thinking which will make the difference. We are able to find errors in systems that aren't obvious, because we do not abide by standard protocols and procedures, and we have a remarkable skill in problem solving and root cause analysis, because the question 'why' is in our nature.
Apart from that, there is also the quality of thinking out systems, structures and ways that no one else would think of, simply because we are highly skilled at connecting dots that are far apart in a different persons' eyes.

Then there is the 'generalist' vs specialist part, which adds to our usefulness. We are the jack of all trades type, meaning we can be put on several jobs. We won't excel at them, but we will be able to do them. That's why we can be really handy for companies to fill gaps in staffing, but also for small companies, who simply haven't enough resources yet for hiring specialists for all fields.

So to say we are 'useless', would be nonsense. Believing that we are is even worse.

I would say: 'Don't worry too much'. It isn't about finding the cure for cancer, nor is it about being that person that comes with a major breakthrough. That is just looking for being unique, special, some sort of manifestation urge, which in the end, the more people live on this planet, the harder it will become to reach.

You'll eventually find your way and do your thing whatever it is. It just requires knowing your strengths and weaknesses and making full use of the former, while either avoiding or seeking replacement for the latter. Since you are still 14, I reckon, if you would have double the knowledge I had at that age, you still wouldn't have 1% an idea of what is out there as for options.

So all in all..., don't worry.
 

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School is not aimed at you. It's aimed at millions of people, and they can't possibly find new ways of educating each child. They're not "wrong". If you want to blame someone, join the INTP nihilism train and blame the world entirely. Don't blame small sections of it like school.

With that said, education is fucked up. I study new ways to solve sums in Mathematics but the core logic stays the same. I can honestly say I can only learn and enjoy learning when I learn or understand a new logic. It's like.. you already know how to drive a car. They're making you drive 100 different cars on 100 different roads... who gives a shit? Unfortunately, those "technicalities" are required in a career.
 

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Well I don't agree with the comment about it being easier for extroverts. I think it's probably harder for extroverts, I think there is research to show that too.

But you're 14, so not only is school not designed with INTPs in mind to come out well through (and it's not exactly enjoyable to other types, even if they can have an advantage to an extent), but you don't realize the real world could care less what you think. Unless they can make money off of it. Or someone sympathizes and tries to help you by making you into a charity case that everyone resents. Or there are enough people like you around to empathize and facilitate certain shorcomings (*cough* SJs *cough*). The fact is wallowing doesn't solve anything. However it happens, through school, it really doesn't matter. You have to find extreme competency in something no one can deny. Or die trying. If school's too much of a distraction to do this, just take the GED and be done with it.
 

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When I was 19, a younger guy at work in another, more technical, department, came up to me and said that two of his much older, knowledgeable and experienced co-workers, on their lunch break, had been talking about me, and they wondered what I was doing in such a dead-end, lowly position, and that I should really be a millionaire already. My boss thought similar. Of course that changed nothing, however, and a few years later I was still doing the same thing. Then I took voluntary redundancy when the place went tits up thanks to bullshit management and a gigantic economic recession.

Another time, when I was about 23, I met a guy while travelling. He was beyond 40 years old. When he asked about my life, I gave him the usual, "Meh, dunno, worked a pretty average job, nothing special at all, it was alright but I'd have gone mad if I stayed there forever." He was surprised, and told me he'd assumed I was already quite successful and capable, given the person he saw in front of him.

I've taken two things from this:

1. We do have the potential. But we just don't care to maximise it. I know I haven't exactly 'tried'.
2. People recognise our potential, but only in a relaxed human environment where we aren't playing the bullshit game of fighting tooth-and-nail to be 'successful'.

So that's pretty much it really. Our lack of success isn't just our own fault. It's the fault of others for not being willing to accept the kind of generic, obvious, but hard-to-put-a-finger-on capability of the silent-intelligent INTP. And no, I won't say that we personally just need to push ourselves. Nope. I think society should do the changing and be more willing to give us a chance. The reason I say this is because these days it seems to be all about acceptance, equality and all that. We have gay rights, minority rights, women's rights. Well, hey, the INTP 'way' is a minority mindset in itself. I call for it to be accepted!

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR INTPs!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Being able to factor polynomials is actually pretty useful if certain areas of higher education.
'Twas an example. First thing I thought of. :p
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Let me put a few things forward as I consider them in relation to what you typed.
school = aimed at the masses, meant to keep the system going as it is. Don't expect it to be there to get the full potential out of you (or any of the other types). It learns you how to think/work/act on an acceptable level to get along in society.

In your working career, but also in everyday life however, we can flourish. We do have value and many companies do recognise it. Especially companies that work on project base, will know the potential of an INTP in a team and will be able to get the maximum out of them if needed. It is the out of the box thinking which will make the difference. We are able to find errors in systems that aren't obvious, because we do not abide by standard protocols and procedures, and we have a remarkable skill in problem solving and root cause analysis, because the question 'why' is in our nature.
Apart from that, there is also the quality of thinking out systems, structures and ways that no one else would think of, simply because we are highly skilled at connecting dots that are far apart in a different persons' eyes.

Then there is the 'generalist' vs specialist part, which adds to our usefulness. We are the jack of all trades type, meaning we can be put on several jobs. We won't excel at them, but we will be able to do them. That's why we can be really handy for companies to fill gaps in staffing, but also for small companies, who simply haven't enough resources yet for hiring specialists for all fields.

So to say we are 'useless', would be nonsense. Believing that we are is even worse.

I would say: 'Don't worry too much'. It isn't about finding the cure for cancer, nor is it about being that person that comes with a major breakthrough. That is just looking for being unique, special, some sort of manifestation urge, which in the end, the more people live on this planet, the harder it will become to reach.

You'll eventually find your way and do your thing whatever it is. It just requires knowing your strengths and weaknesses and making full use of the former, while either avoiding or seeking replacement for the latter. Since you are still 14, I reckon, if you would have double the knowledge I had at that age, you still wouldn't have 1% an idea of what is out there as for options.

So all in all..., don't worry.
School is not aimed at you. It's aimed at millions of people, and they can't possibly find new ways of educating each child. They're not "wrong". If you want to blame someone, join the INTP nihilism train and blame the world entirely. Don't blame small sections of it like school.

With that said, education is fucked up. I study new ways to solve sums in Mathematics but the core logic stays the same. I can honestly say I can only learn and enjoy learning when I learn or understand a new logic. It's like.. you already know how to drive a car. They're making you drive 100 different cars on 100 different roads... who gives a shit? Unfortunately, those "technicalities" are required in a career.
Well I don't agree with the comment about it being easier for extroverts. I think it's probably harder for extroverts, I think there is research to show that too.

But you're 14, so not only is school not designed with INTPs in mind to come out well through (and it's not exactly enjoyable to other types, even if they can have an advantage to an extent), but you don't realize the real world could care less what you think. Unless they can make money off of it. Or someone sympathizes and tries to help you by making you into a charity case that everyone resents. Or there are enough people like you around to empathize and facilitate certain shorcomings (*cough* SJs *cough*). The fact is wallowing doesn't solve anything. However it happens, through school, it really doesn't matter. You have to find extreme competency in something no one can deny. Or die trying. If school's too much of a distraction to do this, just take the GED and be done with it.
When I was 19, a younger guy at work in another, more technical, department, came up to me and said that two of his much older, knowledgeable and experienced co-workers, on their lunch break, had been talking about me, and they wondered what I was doing in such a dead-end, lowly position, and that I should really be a millionaire already. My boss thought similar. Of course that changed nothing, however, and a few years later I was still doing the same thing. Then I took voluntary redundancy when the place went tits up thanks to bullshit management and a gigantic economic recession.

Another time, when I was about 23, I met a guy while travelling. He was beyond 40 years old. When he asked about my life, I gave him the usual, "Meh, dunno, worked a pretty average job, nothing special at all, it was alright but I'd have gone mad if I stayed there forever." He was surprised, and told me he'd assumed I was already quite successful and capable, given the person he saw in front of him.

I've taken two things from this:

1. We do have the potential. But we just don't care to maximise it. I know I haven't exactly 'tried'.
2. People recognise our potential, but only in a relaxed human environment where we aren't playing the bullshit game of fighting tooth-and-nail to be 'successful'.

So that's pretty much it really. Our lack of success isn't just our own fault. It's the fault of others for not being willing to accept the kind of generic, obvious, but hard-to-put-a-finger-on capability of the silent-intelligent INTP. And no, I won't say that we personally just need to push ourselves. Nope. I think society should do the changing and be more willing to give us a chance. The reason I say this is because these days it seems to be all about acceptance, equality and all that. We have gay rights, minority rights, women's rights. Well, hey, the INTP 'way' is a minority mindset in itself. I call for it to be accepted!

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR INTPs!
Alright, I'm gonna go back on myself. Most of what I said probably wasn't true. I've just been stressed out lately, but as INTP's will do, I bottled up alll my emotions so they never saw the light of day. Well the bottle broke.

Lol.

Sorry guys.
 

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Alright, I'm gonna go back on myself. Most of what I said probably wasn't true. I've just been stressed out lately, but as INTP's will do, I bottled up alll my emotions so they never saw the light of day. Well the bottle broke.

Lol.

Sorry guys.
As a 19 year old INTP, it doesn't get better. Get used to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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As a 19 year old INTP, it doesn't get better. Get used to it.
Looking forward to it.
I'm 26 and honestly my life is now getting better and better.

When I was 19 I hated literally everything too. The entire system of life, society, everything, just didn't make sense.

Roughly around the age of hmmm 24, I started to become 'my own man'. I think the main thing is that I gave up on trying to play this shitty 'game', or at least I finally found a part that seems to be working out for me. I can't even say what it is.

I think it may be because I'm pretty much officially way past the point where I can consider myself a youth. I'm a functioning adult among a few billion others. I'm a lowly ant wandering the planet, and it makes me feel good. My life is my own, and as I grow more and more into my own skin, I realise how easy it is to just trundle on, quite content. I still have opinions, ideals and the likes, but in terms of my immediate existence I'm now much more easily finding a happy equilibrium.

Main point I think is to have goals and experiences. Have something to make you tick. That's the one change that came over me after my typically 'lost' teenage years of beer, skateboarding, drugs and work. Not that I regret those years - not one bit - but I'm happier now, that's for sure.

Alreet I'll stop with the preaching now. :happy:
 

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I'm 26 and honestly my life is now getting better and better.

When I was 19 I hated literally everything too. The entire system of life, society, everything, just didn't make sense.

Roughly around the age of hmmm 24, I started to become 'my own man'. I think the main thing is that I gave up on trying to play this shitty 'game', or at least I finally found a part that seems to be working out for me. I can't even say what it is.

I think it may be because I'm pretty much officially way past the point where I can consider myself a youth. I'm a functioning adult among a few billion others. I'm a lowly ant wandering the planet, and it makes me feel good. My life is my own, and as I grow more and more into my own skin, I realise how easy it is to just trundle on, quite content. I still have opinions, ideals and the likes, but in terms of my immediate existence I'm now much more easily finding a happy equilibrium.

Main point I think is to have goals and experiences. Have something to make you tick. That's the one change that came over me after my typically 'lost' teenage years of beer, skateboarding, drugs and work. Not that I regret those years - not one bit - but I'm happier now, that's for sure.

Alreet I'll stop with the preaching now. :happy:
Yes, I agree with HAL, it does get better with age and experience. When I was 19, I also thought the system didn't make any sense and the system was wrong. Maybe this is a common theme for INTPs? I wanted the system to see the world through my eyes, and not how it currently operates.

You just have to find something that works for you. And be comfortable with yourself with your opinions and ideas. It's hard finding that out during your teenage years.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, I agree with HAL, it does get better with age and experience. When I was 19, I also thought the system didn't make any sense and the system was wrong. Maybe this is a common theme for INTPs? I wanted the system to see the world through my eyes, and not how it currently operates.

You just have to find something that works for you. And be comfortable with yourself with your opinions and ideas. It's hard finding that out during your teenage years.
Well maybe the life system is alright, but the school system really isn't. I respect other opinion but I don't consider memorizing information and then spitting it back out for a test "learning"...

We're told to memorize information, spit it out, then take a standardized test so that we can become some statistics. Granted it's fun to be a very high statistic, but a statistic nonetheless.

Our intelligence is still measured on our willingness to obey a human.


Like animals' intelligence.
 

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Well maybe the life system is alright, but the school system really isn't. I respect other opinion but I don't consider memorizing information and then spitting it back out for a test "learning"...

We're told to memorize information, spit it out, then take a standardized test so that we can become some statistics. Granted it's fun to be a very high statistic, but a statistic nonetheless.

Our intelligence is still measured on our willingness to obey a human.


Like animals' intelligence.
So don't learn it that way. I mean if you learn it the right way, it may just fall in line with the indoctrination to some extent anyyway. But don't expect anyone to do that for you. Now that there is the internet, you don't really need anyone to do that for you anyway.
 

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Public school is very obviously biased toward ISTJs. More broadly Pi doms.

It's also biased toward introverts, not extroverts. Public school is an extremely introverted endeavor the vast majority of the time. Shut up and listen. Don't talk. Take notes and absorb the information. Don't get out of your seat. Raise your hand and wait to be called on. Don't pass notes. No cell phones.

The mere art of taking notes is a Pi/Te endeavor. It's actually more Ni/Te than Si/Te. Si/Te tends to just write down everything. That's NOT the correct way to take notes. Although on the reverse side Ni/Te is prone to not writing down enough.


Very biased against your Pe doms, especially your Se doms.

Public school vastly prefers Te over Ti. Would assume that ESTPs get shafted the most out of any type when it comes to the academic part of school.
 

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In your working career, but also in everyday life however, we can flourish. We do have value and many companies do recognise it. Especially companies that work on project base, will know the potential of an INTP in a team and will be able to get the maximum out of them if needed. It is the out of the box thinking which will make the difference. We are able to find errors in systems that aren't obvious, because we do not abide by standard protocols and procedures, and we have a remarkable skill in problem solving and root cause analysis, because the question 'why' is in our nature.
Examples? It's hard for me to believe there is somewhere in the world where my abilities would actually be recognized.

If school's too much of a distraction to do this, just take the GED and be done with it.
Yeah, I did that. It's not even accepted in place of a high-school diploma if I want to take courses at the local university, though, so it's basically worthless.
 

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Yeah, I did that. It's not even accepted in place of a high-school diploma if I want to take courses at the local university, though, so it's basically worthless.
It's suppose to be enough to attend community college, but perhaps that depends on where you are from.
 

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Examples? It's hard for me to believe there is somewhere in the world where my abilities would actually be recognized.
I'd say I would have no idea in your area, but I have a brother working at a huge player in the market (big-pharma in Europe - Wary of naming names, for that may be classified info he gave me.), who leads projects and uses (and has to use) MBTI when assigning people to diverse projects. When I told him a while ago I was reading into MBTI, I didn't even expect him to have heard of it, but it came down to him explaining me how it was used, how far the actual studies were implemented in the procedures of his company, together with many other concepts originating from psychology. So I would call the source first hand.

Most companies however, as I know them, either heard of MBTI through HR/company psychologist, if at all.
I think it mainly will be dependent on the kindof jobs you are thinking of in this. Without willing to sound all arrogant or diminishing, but there are jobs and functions.

Jobs are for the regular people, just working from 8-5 and then going home, to start the next day, doing the same. Everything is clear up front, no big responsibility, most effort done and the hardest part is 'actually being there within set times'.
The functions however, are a layer above the 'simple jobs'. Functions are not specifically designed to do one single task or a small part, but encompass wider, broader aims within the company discipline. As for tangible examples I would say: 'a delivery boy -> job, member of the board -> function.
In the middle management, there is the main overlap between jobs and functions, so for example what would be a function in a small company, would be a job in a larger company.
Where it comes to project management, most of the time larger companies have a far wider pool of resources and therefore benefit by using for example MBTI, to optimise performance of specific teams and persons within the teams. It is ofcourse highly depending on the type of project whether an INTP would fit in, but you'll find most in the strategic analytical approach of abstract ideas, since that is where our strength tends to be focussed.

Hard part is: you will not easily find a function / project to work on like this, unless actually having proven you exist and can. (normally goes pair in pair with having either workexperience from former occupations, or having been educated and grown from within the company.)
So as to answer a vaguely attached question: 'where to apply for such a job?', I'd have to say: make sure to look for a senior function in a huge (10000+ employee) company in general.

If that would also encompass your abilities, I don't know, for I don't know what they are in your case, but with a proper project manager, you would be selected because of having your abilities, to suit the project, instead of because of rank/title.

However, to be honest, I have found working independently on project base for various different companies far more satisfying so far, for it leaves you to think and plan without having to constantly keep objectivity concerning policies in sight. When independent, it most of the time leads to an out of the box creation and solution that many a time is not 'seen' by the people that are stuck in the company structure. Besides, when working for the same company, it leads to what I call company bias. This limits the mind, which I think is only detrimental to the outcome of projects.
 
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