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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just wanted to share something that I've been thinking about a lot lately...all this "feeler" "thinker" talk; it doesn't seem to sit well with me. I don't mean it in an emotional way, it's actually quite the contrary...logically. As a disclaimer, the types and scenarios I use as examples are not intended to make generalized ideas about the type. This is also in regard to NF/NT only, simply because this is the only area I have personally witnessed the "feeler" vs. "thinker" excuse. I posted this in the NT and NF forums :)

When a "thinker" gets angry and starts yelling at an employee for an error, is she not being emotional? An INTJ who gets irritated when someone doesn't "get" something, emotion no? An ENTP laughing at a joke...how could that be? Shouldn't she be puzzled, as a "thinker"? When a thinker experiences road rage when someone tries to run him off the road, is this not an emotional response? How about a thinker crying at the sight of their new baby? A male INTJ relative cried at my wedding. We have emotions for a reason, and it's not just to cry during a movie or to mush about how much we love each other...emotion is something that drives us in many ways. When an ENTJ wants to be a CEO of a company, is it not passion that drives him? The passion and desire to lead...to be the guy in charge? People with Aspbergers have emotion...when they meltdown, are they not experiencing a feeling of being extremely overwhelmed? Of course, they experience other emotions such as happiness as well. Even a person as extreme as a serial killer experience's rage and satisfaction during and after a kill. These are emotions.

Now on to "feelers"...

When an ENFP responds quickly to deliver CPR to someone not breathing, is he not being logical? When an INFJ organizes a team on a project, isn't she using logic? How about when a feeler calms the road raged thinker while speaking rationally, logic no? What about a feeler biology professor? Isn't there logic in her teachings? How about a feeler Mother responding to her child choking and grabbing him to do the Heimlich maneuver? Since she's a "feeler" shouldn't she just be standing there screaming and crying? What about a feeler engineer? Surely he must use logic quite a bit, no? "feeler" Doctor's, lawyer's, entrepreneur's, electrician's, police officer's, etc. etc. all use logic and rational thinking in their jobs, and in their lives every day.

The point is, we all feel and we all think, period. Unfortunately in some situations, emotions are something that both feelers AND thinkers use to manipulate others. A feeler might overreact in an attempt to get his/ her way; a thinker might purposely attempt to upset the feeler just to get a reaction out of him/her. The feeler/thinker stuff as an excuse for miscommunication can only go so far in my opinion. If anything, it's a great tool for gaining a better understanding of each other...then it's time for the "logical" ones to realize that his/her abrasiveness (as an example, not a generalization) can cause an emotional response, and time for the "emotional" ones to learn that crying (as an example, not a generalization) isn't going to effectively get their point across. The excuse being used indefinitely is not very solid in my opinion and as long as it's not because of a psychological/ neurological disorder, it is up to the individual person to hold themselves accountable and stop blaming it on their NF or NT.

None of us are perfect, I can be overly emotional, and I can over-think...I don't get a free pass to say "I'm a feeler and that's why I'm upset right now!" and a thinker doesn't get a free pass to say "I hurt your feelings because I'm a thinker and I don't understand emotions". In reality, thinker/feeler aside, you talk it out and come to an understanding or you don't, but the "free pass" is just an excuse to not hold yourself accountable for your actions. It's also an excuse to throw it in someone's face ie: "you're just emotional", "you don't feel".

Lastly, I adore the company and conversation of NT's, hence I am married to one :) I do believe they add a special element to how I think, however, many NF's, ST's, and SF's have had the same impact on me. So, try to remember we are ALL thinkers AND feelers and excuses are just that...excuses :)

Oh, and I cannot be held accountable for this post; I can't help it, it's the ENFP in me and the need to see and understand "the big picture"...kidding of course :)

**Edited to add: I am not referring to those who use the functions in discussions to show how we each process emotion. I am simply talking about those who generalize everyone as either a thinker or a feeler and use it as an excuse, or as a weapon. **
 

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We all have emotions. Think not T or F as emotional or not, but how we process our emotions.

We all have a T judging function and an F judging function. When the T function is high, we use logic to make decisions more. When the F is high, we use emotions more.

But when the F function is #3 or especially #4, it means we don't use it well. We may use poor judgement when we use it (IE Road Rage)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
We all have emotions. Think not T or F as emotional or not, but how we process our emotions.

We all have a T judging function and an F judging function. When the T function is high, we use logic to make decisions more. When the F is high, we use emotions more.

But when the F function is #3 or especially #4, it means we don't use it well. We may use poor judgement when we use it (IE Road Rage)
Oh I absolutely know this, however, we are all capable of being aware of this and interacting with each other based on this awareness in an accountable fashion rather than as an excuse. How ridiculous would it be for a Presidential candidate to respond to a question in a debate with "I'm sorry, I can't answer that question because I am Ti dom and can't process the emotion involved in the question"? That kind of thinking puts unnecessary limitations on ourselves IMO.

And I agree with you. That's why I am addressing this "thinker" "feeler" way of thinking I'm seeing all over the place..."I'm a thinker so I don't understand emotion" "I'm a feeler and it's hard for me to think rationally". This is what my post is based on. It makes me sad to see people putting such limitations on themselves and each other in this way.

Also, regardless of the way we use it, you use emotion in your decision making, and I use logic in my decision making. Every decision we make we are capable of considering both unless it is a knee jerk reaction, or unless we are not fully matured or well developed. When my NT Husband and I are deciding on a house to buy, he and I would both consider all of the logical aspects of why the house would be a good choice or not, ie: well built, in a good neighborhood, price vs. market, good school system, resale potential, etc. and we would both use emotion as well, ie: how do we feel about the house, does it feel warm, do we like the style, can we picture ourselves living in it etc. So, what I'm saying is, we are all capable of being rational, and emotional and making decisions based on them. Weaknesses should be acknowledged as weaknesses, however, to limit ourselves by copping out behind brain function order is truly limiting ones own potential and the potential of others.
 

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the difference between T and F basically comes out in decision making. Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers tend to go for ethics or emotions. Simple as that. No one is really emotionless. Some of us are just more emotionally impaired than others, haha.
 

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the difference between T and F basically comes out in decision making. Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers tend to go for ethics or emotions. Simple as that. No one is really emotionless. Some of us are just more emotionally impaired than others, haha.
Again what you are saying here is nothing but a sterotype. My INTJ husband doesn't always make decisions based on logic, nor do i always base my decisions on emotion. Feelers don't always tend to go for etheics , so no it isn't as simple as that. I could give you many examples in my own personal relationship that would show this comment as completely false. Its because of this kind of attitude that sterotypes are created in the first place. The difference between F/T is how we filter data/ information, and no where does it say it is our primary use of how we always make decisions. We can see a logical solutions to any situation, but sometimes we make a choice to throw that logic out the window with the bath water, why, because life is too short to base EVERY thing on pure logic.:) Yes, it is a choice, not a lifestyle.
 

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I totally agree. I think feeling gets a short shrift in comparison to thinking. I think this occurs quite a bit because the respected speakers and writers are currently in fashion with thinking. This hasn;t always been the case as feelers tend to own the realm of morality, which is a bit alien (OK,irrelevant) to us thinking types.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
the difference between T and F basically comes out in decision making. Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers tend to go for ethics or emotions. Simple as that. No one is really emotionless. Some of us are just more emotionally impaired than others, haha.
So, you've never bought something that you liked that cost more over over something that you didn't like as much, but cost less?
You've never skipped out on studying to do something else? You've never procrastinated on doing something you were dreading even though you probably shouldn't be dragging your feet? These are all ways a person could use feeling as a decision maker over logic.

Based on what you say here, would you then argue that, let's say...if my son is sick and being the feeler I am, I would make my decision to take him to the dr. based on how I felt about it over his symptoms? We ALL use feeling and logic in decision making on a DAILY BASIS.

You mention a feeler will make their decision based on ethics or emotion over logic... Couldn't one argue that there IS logic involved in emotion and ethics? For example, if I am deciding on something where I can either be ethical, or unethical, wouldn't it be logical thinking for me to consider the consequences of going with the unethical decision? If a logical person will choose without considering ethics at all, then to me that is irrational. The consequences involved in possibly getting caught in the unethical decision should be considered. It doesn't mean a feeler will automatically decide to be ethical, and a thinker will automatically decide to be unethical. Or another example: Wouldn't it be thinking logically for one to consider the consequences of making a derogatory comment to someone? Wouldn't it be logical to think "If I say this, I might make this person very upset and they could get violent"? Or is it logical to think "this is what I think and you are just being emotional so go ahead and punch me"? Seems to me, based on this example, feelers consider consequences in their logic. I'd say that's very true, but thinkers also do the same. We are not all that different.

The other thing is, logic can be based on perception as well. Say for example, you decide to buy a shirt you like less because it's only $10 while I decide to buy the one I like more even though it's $40. For you, you made the best decision because you feel good about saving the money. However, maybe my logic is different...perhaps for me, I made the best decision because liking the shirt and feeling good in it is worth more to me than the money it cost. Who would be the more logical of the two them? The one who was satisfied with her purchase, or the one who was satisfied with her purchase?

And for the record, I would choose C...look for a shirt I love AND is a bargain :)
 

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You mention a feeler will make their decision based on ethics or emotion over logic... Couldn't one argue that there IS logic involved in emotion and ethics?
I might go so far as to say that in a world where there are free willed emotional beings, feeling is superior. It allows for better guesses as to how people will respond. Oh, and thinkers aren't without morals or ethics,ours just happen to be utilitarian, which can seem pretty awful, but is still and ethical guidepost.

Plus, I think feelers are aware of the underlying thoughts to their feelings, but thinker aren;t always aware of the underlying emotions behind their logic. I catch myself in this all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I might go so far as to say that in a world where there are free willed emotional beings, feeling is superior. It allows for better guesses as to how people will respond. Oh, and thinkers aren't without morals or ethics,ours just happen to be utilitarian, which can seem pretty awful, but is still and ethical guidepost.

Plus, I think feelers are aware of the underlying thoughts to their feelings, but thinker aren;t always aware of the underlying emotions behind their logic. I catch myself in this all the time.
Absolutely agree that thinkers aren't without morals or ethics...I was playing devil's advocate :)
 

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@The original poster: note that both your husband and you are perceivers, which might have an impact on how you feel about the Thinking/Feeling divide. I'm under the impression that as a thinker (Ti dom) I put less emphasis on the intuitive/sensors divide than most perceivers do.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@The original poster: note that both your husband and you are perceivers, which might have an impact on how you feel about the Thinking/Feeling divide. I'm under the impression that as a thinker (Ti dom) I put less emphasis on the intuitive/sensors divide than most perceivers do.
My Husband is an ENTJ and he actually inspired this entire post because he thinks it's ridiculous how many posters here constantly refer to themselves by saying things like "as a thinker" "as a feeler".
 

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My Husband is an ENTJ and he actually inspired this entire post because he thinks it's ridiculous how many posters here constantly refer to themselves by saying things like "as a thinker" "as a feeler".
It's like holding back the ocean with your hands... You can keep on saying Feelers think and Thinkers Feel but it doesn't get through to people.
 

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We all have emotions. Think not T or F as emotional or not, but how we process our emotions.

We all have a T judging function and an F judging function. When the T function is high, we use logic to make decisions more. When the F is high, we use emotions more.

But when the F function is #3 or especially #4, it means we don't use it well. We may use poor judgement when we use it (IE Road Rage)
Also, a lot of it comes down to how you WANT to deal with problems. Data, logic, etc will make me confident that I'm on the right track when I'm making a decision. T will push a decision if they believe it is the right thing to do, regardless of how unpopular it may be if the data is "right." Feelings are a secondary consideration. Feelers, I believe want to make sure that they and others feel okay about the decision. They may use data or research to feel until they feel good about a decision or until they have a popular decision.
 

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My Husband is an ENTJ and he actually inspired this entire post because he thinks it's ridiculous how many posters here constantly refer to themselves by saying things like "as a thinker" "as a feeler".
My husband says the same thing. He reads most of my post and spends time on other forum reading. He often walks away from the PC in disbelief. Not sure what bothers him more, the level of stupidy, or the level of ignorance ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Also, a lot of it comes down to how you WANT to deal with problems. Data, logic, etc will make me confident that I'm on the right track when I'm making a decision. T will push a decision if they believe it is the right thing to do, regardless of how unpopular it may be if the data is "right." Feelings are a secondary consideration. Feelers, I believe want to make sure that they and others feel okay about the decision. They may use data or research to feel until they feel good about a decision or until they have a popular decision.
I agree with most of this, except for your take on how feelers make decisions. I personally don't care if my decision is popular or not. I base it mostly around how it will effect me and others around me in the long run. Here's an example: several years ago my Husband and I were looking at TVs. We were torn between two...the manager at the store was pushing for A, and I wanted B. I wanted B because I looked up reviews on both TVs, and B had much better reviews, but it was slightly more expensive..maybe by like $200? Anyway, he kept trying to scare me into A, also kept telling me about his personal experience with both manufacturers; It didn't matter, my mind was made because the hundreds who reviewed the TVs and their statements were ringing loud and clear in my head. In other words, I didn't care about what the manager was telling me, even though he was obviously irritated by it, lol...so I guess in a way you could technically say I went with the popular decision because I went by reviews made by people, however I don't see that as basing the decision on the feelings of others. It was based on their personal experiences with the TVs. I would say it was a pretty logical approach.
 

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Meh, I think its just your general preference to be honest. In my experience, I am an emotional person, but to be frank, I dont really like emotions. They confuse me and often times I cant explain why I feel a certain way. That doesnt make me a robot, I just prefer to take in my emotions, then analyze them until they make sense and find some sort of logical argument for them.

Sure people say its a "decision-making" or judging process, but theres a bit more to it then just that. I'd say a strong thinker is less likely to be impacted by other's opinions of them while a feeler would be more likely to take it personally. In terms of displaying emotions, in my experience, thinkers are not devoid of them; they simply do not always express them while feelers are more likely to do this.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Meh, I think its just your general preference to be honest. In my experience, I am an emotional person, but to be frank, I dont really like emotions. They confuse me and often times I cant explain why I feel a certain way. That doesnt make me a robot, I just prefer to take in my emotions, then analyze them until they make sense and find some sort of logical argument for them.

Sure people say its a "decision-making" or judging process, but theres a bit more to it then just that. I'd say a strong thinker is less likely to be impacted by other's opinions of them while a feeler would be more likely to take it personally. In terms of displaying emotions, in my experience, thinkers are not devoid of them; they simply do not always express them while feelers are more likely to do this.
I agree, except I would like to add that while a feeler might take someone's opinion personally (sometimes), it doesn't mean it will dictate their actions or decisions. I have made plenty of decisions that could cause others to react badly to me, but if it's something that makes sense to me, I am willing to take on the mob :)
 
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