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I've decided to volunteer @ a soupkitchen in Downtown Uppsala, Sweden b/c compared the the CSU (Cali) university system, I only go to school 6hrs a week. Anyway I met an interesting fellow today, and we to talking about life, the universe...etc and he said something that really made some sense:

"The real evil in this world is not the bad men or what they do but it is the 'lacking" of this universe. War lacks peace. Hate lacks love. Suffering lacks food. Sadness lacks happiness. One of the purposes in life is to go and find theses voids and fill it with what it's missing." - a guy named Michael.

What do you infj's think?

Discuss.
 

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Is it possible to know good if you've never known evil? Is it possible to have peace if you've never had pain? Is it possible to know what's just if you've never seen injustice?

Each particle in the universe has it's opposing anti-particle. We can observe this phenomena even in nature itself. Too much of anything leads to stagnation, and the universe has shown us that that it's not its main priority.
 

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I've decided to volunteer @ a soupkitchen in Downtown Uppsala, Sweden b/c compared the the CSU (Cali) university system, I only go to school 6hrs a week. Anyway I met an interesting fellow today, and we to talking about life, the universe...etc and he said something that really made some sense:

"The real evil in this world is not the bad men or what they do but it is the 'lacking" of this universe. War lacks peace. Hate lacks love. Suffering lacks food. Sadness lacks happiness. One of the purposes in life is to go and find theses voids and fill it with what it's missing." - a guy named Michael.

What do you infj's think?

Discuss.
As much as I like the quote, it's a bit simplistic for my taste. The lack of love would rather seem to me to be apathy, whereas I think I see hate more as misguided love. And do we seek happiness or joy? And what is peace, so that war can be the absence of it - is it rather the other way round? And is suffering the same thing as not feeling well? I could go on. But filling voids, is not enough a vision for changing the world for me. Positive creativity that is truely beaty in this world is more than just a reaction to a need.

Or something like that...
 

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I've been studying Confucius recently and I like his take in one of his stories in the LunYu.

To paraphrase, he's mourning how 'the greatest morality' has disappeared from his world (even back then), as compared to the times of the ancient kings (before the first Chinese dynasties). Back then, he said, "everything beneath the heavens belonged to everyone. You not only loved your relatives, but loved strangers; you not only cared for your children, but cared for others; the elderly were given a place to live out their final years in peace, orphans, widows, and the mentally ill or physically handicapped were watched after. People realized that to hoard resources was as contemptible as to waste them, so if you had excess you would give to others; people realized that to use your strength for only yourself was akin to not using your strength at all, so people worked hard for the benefit of others (i.e. benefit of all)." This was his so called 'greatest morality.'

He goes on to say how morality and the relationships between others became blurred and distorted, because as generations went on people began to lose sight of the true meaning of morality and the relationships between people. "All beneath the heavens became territories." People loved only their own relatives, cared only for their own children and old. They hoarded resources and worked only for themselves. Because of this, tyrants, wars and strife all found a foothold in society.
 

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In addition to what Seeker and Penchant said (both great ideas - that one cannot truly understand 'good' without the 'bad' and the confusion of emotions and concepts, etc.)

I would add that it seems a little too idealistic. Sure, I would agree that it is right and admirable purpose to find these voids and 'fill' them as you suggest.

But in practice it is much messier topic. Can diplomacy actually stave off world wars? Can you feed the homeless by handing a guy a sandwich?

Filling the voids idea kindly leaves out the difficulty required in the process of change and the sheer complexity of these topics...
 

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"The real evil in this world is not the bad men or what they do but it is the 'lacking" of this universe. War lacks peace. Hate lacks love. Suffering lacks food. Sadness lacks happiness. One of the purposes in life is to go and find theses voids and fill it with what it's missing." - a guy named Michael.
War and hate and suffering can all be brought forth by bad men (or women...I won't be sexist).

Michael is discussing the issues, but if there was no life on Earth, none of this would exist.

No life = no bad stuff ( Do not take this statement the wrong way. I don't want humans wiped out; there would be no "good stuff" either. There would be nothing.)

We don't live in a utopian, ideal world. My purpose in life is to understand the way things are and do what I can do with that understanding to make life better.
 

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WNo life = no bad stuff
hehe to continue the philosophical contemplation of the OP further, I'll note that death is lack of life, so before there were any humans on the planet this universe was pretty much dead :tongue:
 

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People always tell me what to do and until I do it myself, I can never be sure what to do. I have to make my own mistakes and learn the hard way.
 

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hehe to continue the philosophical contemplation of the OP further, I'll note that death is lack of life, so before there were any humans on the planet this universe was pretty much dead
I think this is not far from the truth
 

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I've decided to volunteer @ a soupkitchen in Downtown Uppsala, Sweden b/c compared the the CSU (Cali) university system, I only go to school 6hrs a week. Anyway I met an interesting fellow today, and we to talking about life, the universe...etc and he said something that really made some sense:

"The real evil in this world is not the bad men or what they do but it is the 'lacking" of this universe. War lacks peace. Hate lacks love. Suffering lacks food. Sadness lacks happiness. One of the purposes in life is to go and find theses voids and fill it with what it's missing." - a guy named Michael.

What do you infj's think?

Discuss.
Seems like the kind of Hegelianism one would come up with after drinking jet fuel...
As for our ability to do good or evil, I think we over the centuries have proved that we have a greater talent for evilness.
Étienne de La Boétie (1530-1563) said: "If the people don't have a tyrant, they will elect one."
May sound misanthropic, but closer to reality.

If it existed, I would immediately join the Solipsist Society (today's philosophy joke :crazy:)
 
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a wandering victim awakens from a long sleep. to realize that he is within the sun, he bleeds life out into the therts of those who wander near his heart, rips at the veins of those he swears by, all invisible to his sight because they can see him clearly.

I think in terms of direction the OP makes a very good point.
I have noticed a natural lacking with my own observances as well.

but only with say... food, or drugs, or people.

imagiine how one feels with these various things and then to have them dissapear. it is such a simple observance but in reality I find it much more complex and orthodox.
I guess I feel it more complexly than it would come to me in a moment of truth.

when it comes to peace and war I believe that this has to do with more of a horizontal attribution rather than the lacking principle which I feel is more of a vertical attribution.
imagine being the only one on your vertical path while you share a horizontal field with others.
the horizontal field holds actions and decisions... war and peace considered. while the vertical holds these solitary ideas of lacking...

vertical lines can run parralel when connected on a horizontal plain...

anyway... thouhgts for food?

wow... I am really tired...
someone will peace this together...
lol. it isn't goin to be me though:dry:
 

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In addition to what Seeker and Penchant said (both great ideas - that one cannot truly understand 'good' without the 'bad' and the confusion of emotions and concepts, etc.)

I would add that it seems a little too idealistic. Sure, I would agree that it is right and admirable purpose to find these voids and 'fill' them as you suggest.

But in practice it is much messier topic. Can diplomacy actually stave off world wars? Can you feed the homeless by handing a guy a sandwich?

Filling the voids idea kindly leaves out the difficulty required in the process of change and the sheer complexity of these topics...
And the structures that facilitate suffering and evil. (Yes, here comes the marxist... :laughing:)

Helping in individual cases is important - giving the homeless a sandwich. Working to change the world, rather than patching the worst symptoms, takes a different approach. So what is the root cause of homelessness? We need to limit suffering, but suffering is only the symtpom.
 

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a wandering victim awakens from a long sleep. to realize that he is within the sun, he bleeds life out into the therts of those who wander near his heart, rips at the veins of those he swears by, all invisible to his sight because they can see him clearly.

I think in terms of direction the OP makes a very good point.
I have noticed a natural lacking with my own observances as well.

but only with say... food, or drugs, or people.

imagiine how one feels with these various things and then to have them dissapear. it is such a simple observance but in reality I find it much more complex and orthodox.
I guess I feel it more complexly than it would come to me in a moment of truth.

when it comes to peace and war I believe that this has to do with more of a horizontal attribution rather than the lacking principle which I feel is more of a vertical attribution.
imagine being the only one on your vertical path while you share a horizontal field with others.
the horizontal field holds actions and decisions... war and peace considered. while the vertical holds these solitary ideas of lacking...

vertical lines can run parralel when connected on a horizontal plain...

anyway... thouhgts for food?

wow... I am really tired...
someone will peace this together...
lol. it isn't goin to be me though:dry:
Tired?

That's drunk speak. You ain't foolin' me.
 

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Of course hate lacks love, but does the person who is 'hating' lacking love? Isn't it more that they choose to behave in a hateful way rather than in a loving way?
 

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Is it not possible to see hate as misdirected love?

Edit: OK, clarification: I don't mean good intentions that end badly. I mean love towards one thing might turn out as hating something else. (I'm sorry I'm too messy in my head right now to give an example...)
 

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There is no lack in the universe, this, to me, is the problem with this line of thought. Everything is as it should be, things happen in the only way it can. It is man who attaches to it things that do not exist in its nature. In the sphere of man, man moves by the laws of man and man are bound by this laws. Things exist within a balanced dualism, if something exist it does so because its opposite is. There is no lack, from one perspective, only the lack we attach to it, but this lack we attach to it, is the result of our own inner lack. Life becomes a stage for all that is in us, it becomes a mirror to our own consciousness. The lack exist in us, it does not exist anywhere else. Nature is in balance, we are not.
 

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"The real evil in this world is not the bad men or what they do but it is the 'lacking" of this universe. War lacks peace. Hate lacks love. Suffering lacks food. Sadness lacks happiness. One of the purposes in life is to go and find theses voids and fill it with what it's missing." - a guy named Michael. ... Discuss.
I'd like to say that it doesn't much matter about the universe. The universe can or may be divine or driven by God; can or may be Absurd; can or may be malevolent; etc. But what damn difference does it make how the universe is? It won't affect me in the least, and each proposed answer for 'out there' is unsatisfying to me. It's merely an intellectual curiosity. It's something to consider when you have security (i.e., food, water, shelter) and the like. And it's honestly no longer fun to even consider.

But in a more psychological sense, I would say that Michael is onto something. We are driven to satisfy our needs and wants in some way or another. Even our own day-dreams are fueled by our own needs and wants. There isn't much more to say than that. Nothing truly profound. It simply is.

Is it possible to know good if you've never known evil? Is it possible to have peace if you've never had pain? Is it possible to know what's just if you've never seen injustice?
While I'm inclined to agree with you here philosophically, it doesn't much help if you feel or, worse, see 'evil', 'pain' and 'injustice' more so than not. Yes, how can you differentiate between 'good' if you haven't experienced 'evil'? But then again it doesn't much matter because 'evil' hurts regardless of whether or not you can differentiate between it and 'good'.
 

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While I'm inclined to agree with you here philosophically, it doesn't much help if you feel or, worse, see 'evil', 'pain' and 'injustice' more so than not. Yes, how can you differentiate between 'good' if you haven't experienced 'evil'? But then again it doesn't much matter because 'evil' hurts regardless of whether or not you can differentiate between it and 'good'.
Evil isn't what hurts you, it's the result of the action itself. Love can hurt people, so, would you call that evil? What we consider evil, may be good for the person that did the action? We bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II because it was the right thing to do at that time, while the innocent civilians thought of us as evil people for doing that.

Who is evil and who is good?
 
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