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I know Promethea started a good thread about this a while ago, but I'm going to echo her right now. This is my declaration of independence from type.

After diving into typology for the past couple of years, I've finally decided that it all breaks down when you really get to know someone, and that it can only provide a very rough estimate of what a person's potential is. I've never once taken a functions test and had it indicate that I fit well into any one type. My results also change with my mood and based on all sorts of factors. I do consistently get "INTP" on general MBTI tests, and I tend to relate well to INTPs in a lot of ways.

Ultimately, though I think the goal of studying typology is to grow out of thinking of people in terms of type. And to realize that a lot of what gets attributed to "type" has more to do with subcultural stereotypes than anything. (INTPs are gaming, Trekkie dorks. INFPs draw hearts all over everything. ENFPs are flakes who watch Gossip Girl. Etc.)

All of that said, I relate best to INTPs, INTJs, and INFJs, and I don't think that'll change. I'll probably continue to vacillate between manifesting the traits of these "types" on some level for the rest of my life. Honestly, I wouldn't want to live if I had to spend the rest of my life confined to a single type as defined by some dude using some sketchy model.

The end. Gonna change my account to "unknown type".
 

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黐線 ~Chiseen~
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I was gonna write up a blog post about this tonight cuz the thought JUST appeared in my head. Have you been probing peoples' minds? Wait... you don't have to answer that... but please stop reading MY mind! I am surprised, astonished, in awe... and feel cerebrally vulnerable right now.
 

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I know Promethea started a good thread about this a while ago, but I'm going to echo her right now. This is my declaration of independence from type.

After diving into typology for the past couple of years, I've finally decided that it all breaks down when you really get to know someone, and that it can only provide a very rough estimate of what a person's potential is. I've never once taken a functions test and had it indicate that I fit well into any one type. My results also change with my mood and based on all sorts of factors. I do consistently get "INTP" on general MBTI tests, and I tend to relate well to INTPs in a lot of ways.

Ultimately, though I think the goal of studying typology is to grow out of thinking of people in terms of type. And to realize that a lot of what gets attributed to "type" has more to do with subcultural stereotypes than anything. (INTPs are gaming, Trekkie dorks. INFPs draw hearts all over everything. ENFPs are flakes who watch Gossip Girl. Etc.)

All of that said, I relate best to INTPs, INTJs, and INFJs, and I don't think that'll change. I'll probably continue to vacillate between manifesting the traits of these "types" on some level for the rest of my life. Honestly, I wouldn't want to live if I had to spend the rest of my life confined to a single type as defined by some dude using some sketchy model.

The end. Gonna change my account to "unknown type".
Well said, I was thinking about how the goal is to reach XXXX.

This was an analogy which I read somewhere and added to. Your 'Type' is like the hand you are used to writing with. You can learn to write with your other hand, and although it's going to be a very difficult task to master using your 'weaker' hand, it does NOT mean that it's impossible. You will naturally want to use the hand you are used to but you know you can use the other one when the need arises.
 

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Maid of Time
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I don't think it's impossible either. I think I have really good Fe sense at this point in my life, so it confounds people (I've been typed by some people as an ESFJ at times on other forums, it's amusing); but it's still always been in service of NT style goals. I think motivations still basically stay the same (or get tempered a bit); but you can develop some skillz in other areas with experience and practice and actively allowing yourself to change rather than fighting it.
 

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Well said, I was thinking about how the goal is to reach XXXX.

This was an analogy which I read somewhere and added to. Your 'Type' is like the hand you are used to writing with. You can learn to write with your other hand, and although it's going to be a very difficult task to master using your 'weaker' hand, it does NOT mean that it's impossible. You will naturally want to use the hand you are used to but you know you can use the other one when the need arises.
I don't think it's impossible either. I think I have really good Fe sense at this point in my life, so it confounds people (I've been typed by some people as an ESFJ at times on other forums, it's amusing); but it's still always been in service of NT style goals. I think motivations still basically stay the same (or get tempered a bit); but you can develop some skillz in other areas with experience and practice and actively allowing yourself to change rather than fighting it.
This is what I keep telling people on this forum, but a lot of them think I'm crazy for trying to develop my Fe. Climbing a mountain is hard, but it's not impossible, and it sure can be worth it.

But people do tell me all the time I have good people skills, so...
 

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Well said. I have tested INTJ the last two times I took the MTBI. I just took it again and tested INFP. So much of it depends on your mindset at the moment. Right now I am feeling like the king of the world and what I get is INFP.
 

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I think the problem is that people often confuse cognitive functions with personality... In reality when Jung wrote about it he put it in terms of cognitive functions that explained the inner experience of each of the 16 types.

Logically similar inner experiences will often result in similar personalities, and similar ways of seen the world.

But when we talk about personality, (that I will define as a set of traits) we need to understand that cognition is just half of the equation, and the other half is environment.

If two INTPs for example, are brought up in different environments they will develop a different set of traits, but they will have nevertheless the same cognitive functions.

Personality is the combination of genetics (typology) with environment. The great debate of nature vs nurture.

Due to the great ability our brain has to adapt to any environment (see neuroplasticity) genes can switch on and off resulting in different behavior.

In the core of our psychology are the human needs, and our cognitive abilities are tools to work towards satisfying those needs.

My theory is that we all have the same human needs, but different types have different priorities, for example an ISTJ gives priority to stability and security, an ENTJ to power and dominance, and an INTP to knowledge and understanding.

Some other needs are social status, novelty, popularity etc...

We have different degrees of abilities to satisfy those needs, and environment has a great influence on whether our need will be met or not.

People that have their needs met develop different sets of traits than people don't. The former become usually more altruistic and develop positive traits, and the latter negative traits.

So an INTP that has been given the opportunity of good education, and degree of independence, will develop a different set of traits than an INTP that hasn't, but nevertheless they will both be INTPs (same cognitive abilities, a need prioritization).
 

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You have evolved into the 17th mbti type.
I try not to worry about what my type may or may not be, but I identify more with the people here than elsewhere so I just wanted to hang out in the guild until it disbanded.

I just see this site as a place to vent, and amuse one another and catch some insight here and there. Maybe cruise for chicks.
It has also given me some big time headstarts on relating to people a little better when I notice certain patterns consistent with other personalities. It helps cut through the bs a bit more if nothing else.
 

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I often wonder what my real type would be if I were more complete. I get the feeling that if I weren’t subjectively retarded, I would easily cross the border into feeler land.
 

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I have always viewed psychology that focuses on thoughts and the mind as currently being in a more soft science form. Physics, chemistry, math; things of this nature can use the Scientific Method to produce the same results in any lab around the world. But if 100 people burned their hand in the exact same way you may get 100 different reactions to the burn.

Building on that thought, I do believe a scientific method will one day be used in this area of psychology. The science of psychology is fairly new when compared to human history as a whole, and it would be interesting to see what another ten generations of psychologists come up with. Add in the current rate of technology growth, and I believe it would be impossible for the practices to remain the same. Wikipedia has the MBTI as first published in 1962. In 1963 the world's first fully electronic desk-top calculator was introduced. The machine weighs 33 pounds and it sold for thousands of dollars.

Not to take away from what people in the field of psychology do. The science of psych seems much less jumping through known hoops and more unique in the way it deals with the individual.
 

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MBTI is meant to be a rough description of someone's preferences.
MBTI is not meant to be a definitive description of someone's abilities.
Problems arise when people confuse the latter for the former.
This is a problem with the online typology community.

The other problem is when people treat their type as some pathetic badge of honor or boys' club in which to belong and maintain membership you have to play by the "rules".

The rules are the stereotypes. Any deviance from the stereotypes, and you are a mistype. But this is of course bullshit. Every INTP description you read has never fit anyone perfectly, and if it did, said person was probably 13 years old.

There are typology sites out there who I swear are filled with basement dwelling CHUDS who spend eight hours a day in a cube farm getting fucked by the man and use the letters "INTP" as some sort of validation that they're as special as they think they are. So out of frustration, they in turn fuck people on teh interwebz with their INTPenis because that's the only place where they get to be a top rather than a bottom for a change. (this happens on all sorts of sites with all sorts of types)

The assumption is that if you share the mental preferences of geniuses, you must be one yourself. This is why there is such heated debate over celebrity types. Again, this is more bullshit.

I may think (or not) in a similar manner to Darwin and Einstein, but that does not make me their equals. Darwin's mind brought you evolution by natural selection. My mind brought you reptoid conspiracy theories and crude jokes about reproductive anatomy. Like I said, we're not equals.

And lastly, I read and post frequently outside of the INTP sub-forum on PerC. Most of the problems in here are not INTP problems because the same exact problems can be found in many other type sub-forums. A lot of, if not most, of your issues are not because you are an INTP. It's because you are a human being, and your problems have been lived through trillions of times over throughout history.

This is my problem with typology and PerC: most problems posted here have nothing to do with MBTI. In fact, I think explaining these problems in terms of type and cognitive functions clouds people's understanding of these issues rather than clarifying them.

There is no need to explain things in terms "It's your Fe clashing with his Fi bla-meh-bleh" when "You're a considerate human being, he's a dick, and you're terrible for each other" will suffice.

PS: If you're so unsure as to whether or not someone likes you that you have to consult a bunch of strangers on the internet, the answer is probably "no".
 

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MBTI is meant to be a rough description of someone's preferences.
MBTI is not meant to be a definitive description of someone's abilities.
Problems arise when people confuse the latter for the former.
This is a problem with the online typology community.

The other problem is when people treat their type as some pathetic badge of honor or boys' club in which to belong and maintain membership you have to play by the "rules".

The rules are the stereotypes. Any deviance from the stereotypes, and you are a mistype. But this is of course bullshit. Every INTP description you read has never fit anyone perfectly, and if it did, said person was probably 13 years old.

There are typology sites out there who I swear are filled with basement dwelling CHUDS who spend eight hours a day in a cube farm getting fucked by the man and use the letters "INTP" as some sort of validation that they're as special as they think they are. So out of frustration, they in turn fuck people on teh interwebz with their INTPenis because that's the only place where they get to be a top rather than a bottom for a change. (this happens on all sorts of sites with all sorts of types)

The assumption is that if you share the mental preferences of geniuses, you must be one yourself. This is why there is such heated debate over celebrity types. Again, this is more bullshit.

I may think (or not) in a similar manner to Darwin and Einstein, but that does not make me their equals. Darwin's mind brought you evolution by natural selection. My mind brought you reptoid conspiracy theories and crude jokes about reproductive anatomy. Like I said, we're not equals.

And lastly, I read and post frequently outside of the INTP sub-forum on PerC. Most of the problems in here are not INTP problems because the same exact problems can be found in many other type sub-forums. A lot of, if not most, of your issues are not because you are an INTP. It's because you are a human being, and your problems have been lived through trillions of times over throughout history.

This is my problem with typology and PerC: most problems posted here have nothing to do with MBTI. In fact, I think explaining these problems in terms of type and cognitive functions clouds people's understanding of these issues rather than clarifying them.

There is no need to explain things in terms "It's your Fe clashing with his Fi bla-meh-bleh" when "You're a considerate human being, he's a dick, and you're terrible for each other" will suffice.

PS: If you're so unsure as to whether or not someone likes you that you have to consult a bunch of strangers on the internet, the answer is probably "no".
A little harsh for my liking but... I do kinda like your post, and for the most part I agree with it as well, I shall give it thanks... although I must say, a little harsh....

And I like being able to wear my INTP badge:tongue: for me it means there's a group out there as crazy as me, makes me feel normal... to a degree anyways.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
MBTI is meant to be a rough description of someone's preferences.
MBTI is not meant to be a definitive description of someone's abilities.
Problems arise when people confuse the latter for the former.
This is a problem with the online typology community.

The other problem is when people treat their type as some pathetic badge of honor or boys' club in which to belong and maintain membership you have to play by the "rules".

The rules are the stereotypes. Any deviance from the stereotypes, and you are a mistype. But this is of course bullshit. Every INTP description you read has never fit anyone perfectly, and if it did, said person was probably 13 years old.

There are typology sites out there who I swear are filled with basement dwelling CHUDS who spend eight hours a day in a cube farm getting fucked by the man and use the letters "INTP" as some sort of validation that they're as special as they think they are. So out of frustration, they in turn fuck people on teh interwebz with their INTPenis because that's the only place where they get to be a top rather than a bottom for a change. (this happens on all sorts of sites with all sorts of types)

The assumption is that if you share the mental preferences of geniuses, you must be one yourself. This is why there is such heated debate over celebrity types. Again, this is more bullshit.

I may think (or not) in a similar manner to Darwin and Einstein, but that does not make me their equals. Darwin's mind brought you evolution by natural selection. My mind brought you reptoid conspiracy theories and crude jokes about reproductive anatomy. Like I said, we're not equals.

And lastly, I read and post frequently outside of the INTP sub-forum on PerC. Most of the problems in here are not INTP problems because the same exact problems can be found in many other type sub-forums. A lot of, if not most, of your issues are not because you are an INTP. It's because you are a human being, and your problems have been lived through trillions of times over throughout history.

This is my problem with typology and PerC: most problems posted here have nothing to do with MBTI. In fact, I think explaining these problems in terms of type and cognitive functions clouds people's understanding of these issues rather than clarifying them.

There is no need to explain things in terms "It's your Fe clashing with his Fi bla-meh-bleh" when "You're a considerate human being, he's a dick, and you're terrible for each other" will suffice.

PS: If you're so unsure as to whether or not someone likes you that you have to consult a bunch of strangers on the internet, the answer is probably "no".
I needed to laugh that hard... Amen, brutha.
 

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Fun post RogueWave. The way you described the limitations of stereotyping w/o going all academic-like was great. What a roller coaster. I laughed, I contemplated, I was inspired to change my avatar on CNN.com to a CHUD. Check it -

 

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Discussion Starter #15
The rules are the stereotypes. Any deviance from the stereotypes, and you are a mistype. But this is of course bullshit. Every INTP description you read has never fit anyone perfectly, and if it did, said person was probably 13 years old.
The mistyping shit is so ridiculous.

I feel like any time an INTP posts anything other than "OMG, my life sucks, Fe, waaah." Or "I'm getting better at communicating and having the friends I've always wanted" somebody decides to accuse them of mistyping themselves.

And the types they pick are almost always ludicrous. It's like, I think I'd know better than some stranger on the internet what my damn type is. I've only taken the real-live test administered by professionals as well as a zillion online tests, and got the same result *every time*... I swear to God, I've had people here tell me I was a mistyped ISTJ. Because I made a comment about cheating at my school. Que senor? And if you don't have trouble getting dates? You must be some version of extroverted. Yeah, I'll bet I'm an ESTP, then.

It's also funny when people read waaay too much into a simple scenario you recount in order to discern your "real" type that's hiding beneath your false type. O I get it, there's no way I could be an INTP if I'm not just like you in every conceivable sense, right down to specific life experiences. Well guess what, kids-- nobody's a perfect "INTP", that's a construct that you're retrofitting your personality to. It's never going to fit anyone perfectly, and if they think it does, they need to broaden their horizons a little.
 

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Meh. I guess I sometimes feel the same way (look at me, feeling stuff!) about being an INTP and not fitting into all the stereotypes. There's no doubt in my mind though that my base personality type is INTP -- like @Ishan Jalan mentioned, it feels like writing with my right hand. I think the differences where I disagree most often with other INTP types is as a result of personal development and maturity. I am more sensitive to my friends' needs. I have a large group of friends, many of whom I see rather frequently. I'm capable of handling the details and mechanical aspects of carrying a project to completion. I'm able to argue on the basis of value rather than facts. I'm not afraid of speaking in front of a crowd, or talking to strangers, and I'm even :)gasp:) capable of handling small talk. I don't have any problems getting dates (lol) or expressing my romantic interest in others. I am equally comfortable stepping into leadership roles, working as a teammate, or completing tasks autonomously.

None of that, however, impacts my personal viewpoint of my intrinsic personality type. Growing as an individual doesn't mean you have to re-evaluate your type, nor does it necessarily even mean that you're becoming more cognitively balanced! You could, possibly, simply be more developed as you age, which I believe falls outside the scope of MBTI.
 

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A little harsh for my liking but... I do kinda like your post, and for the most part I agree with it as well, I shall give it thanks... although I must say, a little harsh....
it's your Fe clashing with his Ti bla-meh-bleh..
 
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