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MOTM Jan 2012
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Dearly beloved, do you find your natural charm surprising you?

Yes, I know: when someone thinks ISTP, "charming" is not the first word that comes to mind. Personally, when I think of "charming", the type I think of first is ESTP.

Our ESTP brethren are indeed very charming and charismatic; I believe Se is at the center of this, and ESTPs are masters of the Se. But, what I'd like to propose is that ISTPs can also tap into this source of natural charm, and, tempered with the dominant Ti, can be slightly more subtle.

I've come across this phenomenon in myself. Some background: in my family, I am the youngest. My INTJ brother is the long suffering middle child (you know the type), and while we are great friends, we've always had this sort of silent competition between us.

Well, my brother thinks that I am everybody's favorite. Everyone knows that I'm my ISTP dad's favorite. (Surprised? I wasn't.) There is also obvious favoritism from many other family members, family friends and acquaintances.

I never knew what to make of this...after all, it's not like I was trying. So I just ignored this, wrote it off as being the youngest or some such nonsense.

But, as we grew older and expanded our social horizons, I began to notice a trend:

Our school counselor bent over backwards, helping me get scholarships, while my brother had no such help.

At work, I would openly flaunt rules (such as dress code, etc.) and make dry, somewhat critical, remarks about policy, and was never reprimanded.

At college, I openly made fun of a teacher who I thought were talking crap, and she loved me; while, a friend of mine, who shared many of my opinions but kept her mouth shut, was disliked by said teacher, and was even given a bad grade on a paper for having opposing views.

I don't know if I do this subconsciously or what, but I've realized that I can be subtly charming the people around me. And if I do this intentionally, I also noticed how I can subtly manipulate a situation or a conversation in the direction I want, to my advantage.

This relatively harmless manipulation is a little disturbing to me; it feels like deception.

So, long post aside...do you find that you have your own hidden source of charm? And do you have similar situations like I described above.
 

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phht! Oh I absolutely have charm! :cool: Once I warm up to a person I can be very charming indeed. I definitely don't do it intentionally; I think it just happens. I honestly think the reason why is because what you see is what you get with me. Just because I'm introverted doesn't mean I'm socially handicapped. I don't put on airs, I usually know something about something and I generally throw a joke or two into the conversation. I don't know why people enjoy my sarcastic sense of humor.

In school I had an experience similar to yours Hatter, and at work the same thing. Maybe people think I'm sort of untapped resource or something...
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #3
I honestly think the reason why is because what you see is what you get with me. Just because I'm introverted doesn't mean I'm socially handicapped. I don't put on airs, I usually know something about something and I generally throw a joke or two into the conversation. I don't know why people enjoy my sarcastic sense of humor.
Yes, this is me. My brother thinks I'm socially inept; not true! Just because I'm not comfortable in every situation doesn't mean that I don't know the rules. I just choose not to follow them! :crazy: That in itself has its own charm.

I don't understand why people enjoy my sense of humor either. Half the time, I'm gently mocking them.
 
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When I smile at someone, they think that I like them. Lol. My actions have nothing to do with my feelings. I tricked them all! Unintentionally though.
 
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This relatively harmless manipulation is a little disturbing to me; it feels like deception.
I think you don't like that because you can't control it - at least that's how's with me. We're just naturally charming but if sometimes we would like to act charming, we don't know how because it's so automatical for us. Like " what you see is what you get", as ClarifiedMind says. Just "doing it" works with us. I actually dislike this trait on me sometimes, because people think about all the hidden agendas I have and they try to read me and read between the lines and simply don't understand that I'm literally incapable of doing anything between the lines. Like when I once said to an acquaintance that she looks like Julia Roberts and she thought I have a crush on her because according to her, Julia Roberts is beautiful, which means that I think she is beautiful which means that I secretly like her which means that this is my way of saying I love you. Needless to say I was only thinking that she looks like Julia Roberts.
 

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Aye. I use this to my advantage with sales and music. Funny story. One day one of my regular customers said, "I hate you...no, I mean that. Every time I come in here I end up buying something from you and my wife told I can't buy anything else. I'm not even supposed to be here right now and I'm going to get in trouble for buying this." I never did see him again after that. :laughing:
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #7
I actually dislike this trait on me sometimes, because people think about all the hidden agendas I have and they try to read me and read between the lines and simply don't understand that I'm literally incapable of doing anything between the lines. Like when I once said to an acquaintance that she looks like Julia Roberts and she thought I have a crush on her because according to her, Julia Roberts is beautiful, which means that I think she is beautiful which means that I secretly like her which means that this is my way of saying I love you. Needless to say I was only thinking that she looks like Julia Roberts.
That's annoying. I hate when people do that. If it were me, being called Julia Roberts would not be a compliment...her mouth is way too big for her face.

Interesting, Thoughtprocess...I've never been in sales before. I almost want to go out and experiment. I wouldn't mind getting a new job. Everyone likes me (the charm again...), but the pay sucks and watching twenty kids at a time is not my cup of tea.
 
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MOTM Jan 2012
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Yeah, I'd rather not have to go from dealing with five-year-olds to dealing with five-year-olds in forty-year-old bodies. :dry:
 
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Dude. One of my customers literally threw a hissy fit, complete with red face, tears, and stomping, because I wouldn't sell him a product below cost. His reasoning? "But I waaaaa-ha-ha-hant it!" He was at least in his late 30s and, worse, had his child with him. I said, "I'm sorry man, this isn't Tijuana, the price is what the price is". He actually had the nerve to file a complaint with my boss about it, too.
 

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Is that what is?Now I think about people usually do go out of their way to help me and my dad out. We also both seem to attract people just when we're out and about (unfortunately!) haha nah some of the people are alright :happy:
 

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I remember a post recently here saying how everyone thought you ISTPs were so funny when you weren't trying. I wonder if that's part of the "charm" My husband can and does say all kinds of critical, biting stuff that cracks me up and if someone else were to say it, I'd think "wow what an insensitive jerk" Most others find him hilarious at these times as well.
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #13
Dude. One of my customers literally threw a hissy fit, complete with red face, tears, and stomping, because I wouldn't sell him a product below cost. His reasoning? "But I waaaaa-ha-ha-hant it!" He was at least in his late 30s and, worse, had his child with him. I said, "I'm sorry man, this isn't Tijuana, the price is what the price is". He actually had the nerve to file a complaint with my boss about it, too.
:shocked::frustrating: I'm actually embarrassed for that guy.

Excellent comeback, by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I remember a post recently here saying how everyone thought you ISTPs were so funny when you weren't trying. I wonder if that's part of the "charm" My husband can and does say all kinds of critical, biting stuff that cracks me up and if someone else were to say it, I'd think "wow what an insensitive jerk" Most others find him hilarious at these times as well.
I think it is. It came up again today, at work, with the same co-worker. I actually told her to go away and don't touch me. She laughed. Later, she said, if it had been anyone else, she would have been extremely hurt. But, with me, she knows that's just how I am. I am blunt, but there is no malicious intent.

I think, maybe, what it is, is that we say the thing that everyone is thinking, but doesn't have the guts to say. At these kind of moments, someone like my brother will say, "Yep, you went there. Nobody was going to, but you did."

Or, I could be totally off the mark, and talking out of my butt...it's been known to happen. :proud:
 

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:shocked::frustrating: I'm actually embarrassed for that guy.

Excellent comeback, by the way.
:laughing: I know what you mean. I was a little WTF?! afterward.

Thanks. I used that one frequently. The store already had pretty deep discounts, too. Some stuff is 40-50% off MSRP every day. But, to be fair, the good customers outweighed the bad ones and I did enjoy my actual job. It was the internal politics of the store that made me leave.
 

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I think, maybe, what it is, is that we say the thing that everyone is thinking, but doesn't have the guts to say. At these kind of moments, someone like my brother will say, "Yep, you went there. Nobody was going to, but you did."

Or, I could be totally off the mark, and talking out of my butt...it's been known to happen. :proud:
That's definitely me. I'm always saying things as they are - in those times when everyone knows it but doesn't want to say it aloud. I'd do everyone a favour by just making it explicit. And I do it in a very upfront way, always starting with a sentence like 'OK guys, let me be upfront, and all of you already know this so I'm just saying it aloud.........' First there's the slight cringing, but this is inevitably followed by a more relaxed atmosphere. And THEN people start to really talk. To me, nothing happens in a meeting or discussion until this point is reached. I hate beating around the bush.
 

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Ha..what you described hatter is exactly what has happened to me all my life.....

when I was in the military I would yell and curse at ppl...no matter what rank they had if they pissed me off...I made fun of ppl to their face for being dumb..Made sarcastic remarks about just about every policy...and never once got in trouble for anything i did....I was kinda the guru of my shop I suppose..

.but I don't know...people always bend over backwards to help me when I need help...and about 70% of the time I'm belligerent with them lol....I have a feeling that it has something to do with our logic and natural laid back nature....and maybe the fact we are pretty much what you see is what you get no games kind of people..very direct...

Its very easy for me to make "friends"...Its odd....and they always want to hang out...then they realize I'm a hermit and are like WTF...

So I'm casting my vote for ISTPs being the most charming type when we see no reason to be belligerent

...I've started to ramble again...damn med school...:confused:*stress*
 

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I think you don't like that because you can't control it - at least that's how's with me. We're just naturally charming but if sometimes we would like to act charming, we don't know how because it's so automatical for us. Like " what you see is what you get", as ClarifiedMind says. Just "doing it" works with us. I actually dislike this trait on me sometimes, because people think about all the hidden agendas I have and they try to read me and read between the lines and simply don't understand that I'm literally incapable of doing anything between the lines. Like when I once said to an acquaintance that she looks like Julia Roberts and she thought I have a crush on her because according to her, Julia Roberts is beautiful, which means that I think she is beautiful which means that I secretly like her which means that this is my way of saying I love you. Needless to say I was only thinking that she looks like Julia Roberts.
I had a falling out with a "friend" of mine because of them trying to read between the lines....If I consider you a friend I do things for you...apparently this girl thought I liked her of course she had a bf...so she got all rude toward me and eventually she said some crazy crap about me liking her and some other crap...and the falling out started...I still want to kick her in the face lol...I'm probably one of the few ISTPs that hold grudges forever :tongue:
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #19
I've held one real grudge in my life. I'm working on resolving that with myself. I'm probably never going to see this person again, and I don't want to, but no point in wasting my precious energy on bitterness for such a person.
 

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And I do it in a very upfront way, always starting with a sentence like 'OK guys, let me be upfront, and all of you already know this so I'm just saying it aloud.........' First there's the slight cringing, but this is inevitably followed by a more relaxed atmosphere. And THEN people start to really talk. To me, nothing happens in a meeting or discussion until this point is reached. I hate beating around the bush.
Ha, I don't usually give the people a head's up. How thoughtful of you! :tongue:

With my INFJ mom (the master of beating around the bush *and* tangents), I've developed a signal that it's time for her to cut to the chase. And it works!...so wonderfully relieving on my part. I wish I could do this to everyone, a hand motion that says, I'm about five seconds from not caring. Get to the point. It would make my life so much easier.
 
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