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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to get my ISTP dad to buy a new couch. The one that we have is old, ugly, torn up, uncomfortable, and really too big for the living room (not to mention being the most hideous color imaginable: teal!). My mom bought it years ago, and left it when they divorced. I think it was her final revenge on him...

Anyway, we're at Costco and spot this really nice lounge couch. It's the perfect size, it folds down to make a sleeper, it can seat four people comfortably, it has a nice dark earth-tone, and it's relatively inexpensive, which makes perfect, because my dad hates spending money.

Well, in pure Perceiver fashion, he can't make up his mind. He's worse than me! I can tell that he really likes it, and I know he does, because usually he just points out all the flaws in products like that, and this time he was saying positive things.

But he said: I've got to talk to L (my ISTJ sister). He wants to do that so she'll make the decision for him!

I say forget that. Just buy it. You're not gonna find another one that you like at this price.

But he just growled at me, and told me to shut the heck up, because he knows I'm right.

He thinks too much. He should stop thinking and just buy it. But, I'm still gonna let him mull it over some more.

So, really boring story about shopping, but I will pose this question: do you have similar problems making up your mind? And if so, do you often have a J family member help you make these decisions?
 

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MOTM June 2010
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But.... I like teal:wink:! Your dad is so indicative of an ISTP. Maybe you should ask him for the money and take care of the purchase yourself.
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #3
But.... I like teal:wink:! Your dad is so indicative of an ISTP. Maybe you should ask him for the money and take care of the purchase yourself.
You would hate teal too, if your mom one day decided to paint the whole living room teal and to buy all teal furniture, only to re-paint the walls a week later, because she thought the walls were closing in on her! :confused:
 

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MOTM June 2010
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You would hate teal too, if your mom one day decided to paint the whole living room teal and to buy all teal furniture, only to re-paint the walls a week later, because she thought the walls were closing in on her! :confused:
Ouch.... that sounded more out of reprisal and spite. As you said, a last screw to your dad.
 

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Hahaha. That reminds me of a time my wife took me to buy some seat covers. I just stood there, looking at all of my options, weighing them, finding faults, not sure which of two I liked more, and she finally walked off in frustration after about 20 minutes. Never did get those seat covers, either. :crazy:
 

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I don't have any trouble making my own purchasing decisions, except for possibly when it comes down to money. Like can I afford this or not. Or do I spring for it on the credit card etc.

What would really be interesting to hear is your take on why they got divorced or if their "types" had any bearing on their divorce. Of course it's none of my business and I'm not prying, only curious. Especially since your Dad is an ISTP too.

Thanks
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #7
I don't have any trouble making my own purchasing decisions, except for possibly when it comes down to money. Like can I afford this or not. Or do I spring for it on the credit card etc.

What would really be interesting to hear is your take on why they got divorced or if their "types" had any bearing on their divorce. Of course it's none of my business and I'm not prying, only curious. Especially since your Dad is an ISTP too.

Thanks
Oh yes, their divorce was the culmination of years of being unable to communicate, and I think a main factor was their "types".

Dad: ISTP
Mom: INFJ

My mom would make plans without consulting my dad.
My dad would never "do" anything with us as the family, like when we went out on family outings. (The one time we convinced to come to the zoo, he got pooped on by a seagull and he never went again.)
My mom is very passive-aggressive, and my dad is very straight forward. He would be talking, she would ignore him and not even listen, my dad would lose his temper and go into a rage, my mom would take the part of the martyr.
My mom would follow my dad around in the morning, shushing him, so he wouldn't wake the kids up, to the point of practically slamming the door on his heels.
My dad wouldn't buy my mom cards or gifts when socially expected.
My dad was verbally abusive.
My mom was manipulative.

And those were the things that I could think of off the top of my head. I think you get the picture. There's more, but I can't remember at the moment. It was a bad situation all around. Although I think it was for the best now, at the time I was really angry. It took me a long time to get past that.
 
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Oh yes, their divorce was the culmination of years of being unable to communicate, and I think a main factor was their "types".

Dad: ISTP
Mom: INFJ

My mom would make plans without consulting my dad.
My dad would never "do" anything with us as the family, like when we went out on family outings. (The one time we convinced to come to the zoo, he got pooped on by a seagull and he never went again.)
My mom is very passive-aggressive, and my dad is very straight forward. He would be talking, she would ignore him and not even listen, my dad would lose his temper and go into a rage, my mom would take the part of the martyr.
My mom would follow my dad around in the morning, shushing him, so he wouldn't wake the kids up, to the point of practically slamming the door on his heels.
My dad wouldn't buy my mom cards or gifts when socially expected.
My dad was verbally abusive.
My mom was manipulative.

And those were the things that I could think of off the top of my head. I think you get the picture. There's more, but I can't remember at the moment. It was a bad situation all around. Although I think it was for the best now, at the time I was really angry. It took me a long time to get past that.
Thank you for telling me/us. Sorry to hear about it and how it affected you. Probably part of the reason why you aren't in very much of a hurry to get into a relationship yourself.
 

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Yes, there's so much choice that it's hard to decide - I often wait until I am desperate and then buy the cheapest thing that is 'ok' and does what it should even if it's not fantastic. It's like I put off decisions because I want to find the items that will make me think 'wow! I have got to buy this!' but I never do find them.

I went to buy a lamp for my mum once. How do you choose between all the colours when you feel the same about them all? Luckily my ISTJ dad was there and suggested the creamy one. If I had considered the bigger picture, I might have realised that a neutral colour might be better than the darker coloured ones or that it didn't really matter what colour it was since it was just a cheap lamp! Instead I stood around for a while trying to decide what colour either my mum or me would feel happy about. Maybe I was trying to use my Ni which didn't have much data in it about choosing a lamp and so I was failing.

And don't ask my ISFP sister and I to shop for a present together, we are both equally bad at deciding. It's better if my dad is around to help. With my sister usually I question buying something based on like what it can do while my sister questions buying something based on like she doesn't like how it looks or how it might affect people. And then we can stand there in the shop for quite a while talking about the problem from all points of view with our Fi/Ni and Ti/Ni working overtime not getting anywhere until we actually do something.

Would you be more helped to buy something by a family member's logic or feelings? I think I'd defer to my sister's judgment if I was trying to decide something based on feeling. I suspect that if I can't decide, I might be more easily manipulated to buy something by someone who talks about how much they love it:dry: since I already have the equal logical cases for and against it.
 

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I've never found making purchasing decisions all that hard. I might look at all the options and take my time to make the right decision but in the end I'll usually go "Ah screw it" and just buy something.
 

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I've never found making purchasing decisions all that hard. I might look at all the options and take my time to make the right decision but in the end I'll usually go "Ah screw it" and just buy something.
I think that's good advice. Impulse buying is always fun (well except when you don't have spare money). I think it's more easier to buy for myself. It's usually when I need to buy something for someone else that I'll get stuck.
 

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Oh yes, their divorce was the culmination of years of being unable to communicate, and I think a main factor was their "types".

Dad: ISTP
Mom: INFJ

My mom would make plans without consulting my dad.
My dad would never "do" anything with us as the family, like when we went out on family outings. (The one time we convinced to come to the zoo, he got pooped on by a seagull and he never went again.)
My mom is very passive-aggressive, and my dad is very straight forward. He would be talking, she would ignore him and not even listen, my dad would lose his temper and go into a rage, my mom would take the part of the martyr.
My mom would follow my dad around in the morning, shushing him, so he wouldn't wake the kids up, to the point of practically slamming the door on his heels.
My dad wouldn't buy my mom cards or gifts when socially expected.
My dad was verbally abusive.
My mom was manipulative.

And those were the things that I could think of off the top of my head. I think you get the picture. There's more, but I can't remember at the moment. It was a bad situation all around. Although I think it was for the best now, at the time I was really angry. It took me a long time to get past that.
While my wife's an INFP, I can related to a fair amount of that because it describes the first seven-ish years of our relationship. We've come a long way since but, the communications issues are still there mainly because of her tendencies of shutting down and then denying it. In order for serious discussions to be productive I have to wait for the right time to bring an issue up, break it off before she shuts down, and try to consider how my words and body language will effect her before I speak. All in all, it's quite draining but, the effort is usually worth it.

I've never found making purchasing decisions all that hard. I might look at all the options and take my time to make the right decision but in the end I'll usually go "Ah screw it" and just buy something.
That's pretty much how I've become, to a certain degree anyway. If I find something I really want, I find a way to get it.

On the flip, my wife and I bought an inflatable lake raft a few weeks back. I found one online that I was "this close" to impulse buying but, this different brand in the store ended up being 40% off at the register and was already lower cost. Of course, my wife had to say "just buy the damn thing" before it even got to the register because I walked around saying "well this and that". Glad I did, too. It's a great expenditure of energy and chance to be out in nature.
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you for telling me/us. Sorry to hear about it and how it affected you. Probably part of the reason why you aren't in very much of a hurry to get into a relationship yourself.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm not very trusting.

I've never found making purchasing decisions all that hard. I might look at all the options and take my time to make the right decision but in the end I'll usually go "Ah screw it" and just buy something.
This is more akin to my shopping habits.

I usually have an idea of what I want; if I can't find it, I won't buy anything. My sister always thought I was impossible at shopping, because I am always so particular.
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #15
While my wife's an INFP, I can related to a fair amount of that because it describes the first seven-ish years of our relationship. We've come a long way since but, the communications issues are still there mainly because of her tendencies of shutting down and then denying it. In order for serious discussions to be productive I have to wait for the right time to bring an issue up, break it off before she shuts down, and try to consider how my words and body language will effect her before I speak. All in all, it's quite draining but, the effort is usually worth it.
I'm sure despite the INFP/INFJ directional difference, that the same "flavor" that NFs share was there, almost like a shared language.

I can't help but wonder if my parents knew about typology all those years ago if they could have reconciled their differences, or if that would have been the catalyst of change for my dad, instead of my mom divorcing him. I must say a positive outcome of their divorce was that my dad went to counseling, and got his anger under control. He still gets angry from time to time, but not with the same intensity...besides, my siblings and I won't take his crap when he gets like that anyway. :crazy: That's something my mom never could learn to do: cut through his bull crap and not let it affect her. She never had the heart for it...the only F, with a T ex-husband and three T children.

The most ironic thing about this whole situation is that she now has to be the rational one in her second marriage. (I'm pretty sure her husband is ESFP...at least she's no longer the lone F.) She's had to learn the hard way skills that my dad always tried to teach her, like being smart with the money. She always thought that my dad was a miser and a tyrant with the finances...he tried to teach her, but she never was interested. She always wanted to be lost in her dream world of books and poetry. But I think she's realizing now that my dad was actually coming from somewhere...not that she'll admit that to me.

I'm actually proud of her: she actually made a smart purchase on an used car recently, and got the approval of my very pragmatic ESTP uncle (a lofty accomplishment!).
 

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MOTM Jan 2012
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Discussion Starter #16
Oh, and I think my dad might be close to buying that couch. I keep inserting little comments, like: just imagine how good that couch would look right there...

Subliminal suggestions. :cool: I really want a new couch...
 
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