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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It is so hard to find a deep connection to another person. Yet I feel that is part of who we are as humanity. It is why we sing in choirs or play in a band, making music together as many becoming one voice and existing in balance and harmony. It is how the sum of the parts become greater than the whole. For the most part we seldom go further. Our minds are like voices or different instruments. Our thoughts are like notes that can compose a symphonic masterpiece. Yet we know little of how to work our notes together in harmony. It is not that we agree or disagree for such concepts are pointless. Unison is not unity. We seem to believe that what the majority agrees on is somehow the truth of things. Perhaps we think that we can somehow lay claim to the truth and make it our own like a possession. Truth is always to be sought after, in this way our minds begin to function in a different manner and in diversity work together.

Can your mind feel my mind in your thoughts. Can you hear ideas that flow and reshape and are ever changing that move us toward discovery. Our minds are different but are the network with unlimited potential. We could change the world with just a thought. Our reality is what our minds dictate to where our vision and reality are contain and even imprisoned in a box. Some say they can think outside that box, but we are made to live outside of that box.

This was not where I wanted to go, but if you can see this as an invitation to connect for our minds to join diversely as one, then let us try to go there and see where it will lead us.
 

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It is easier for some of the extroverts but I am very doubtful that most have experienced a deep and lasting connection before beyond just the usual relationships that come and go like autumn leaves. It is part of the experience to live in this world were separation much like the rest of humanity's hand to mouth existence is deeply ingrained.
 

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It is why we sing in choirs or play in a band, making music together as many becoming one voice and existing in balance and harmony
I thought it's done in order to produce better quality music and avoid having specialize in usage of various instruments as well impracticality of preforming all by yourself and all can be for various other purposes such as money, fame what I guess wouldn't equate to finding a deep connection.

No, my mind can't "feel" yor mind in my thoughts (not sure how it does make sense as my thoughts are my mind), at best I can attempt conceptualize what what constitutes your mind on basis of evidence I've, albeit even that would be fairly inaccurate.

Also our potential is very likely limited by capability of our brain to process and understand the information and other rules that reality consist of and best we can hope for is to lean them and try to exploit them to achieve specific outcomes. And reality is irrespective of your perception, either something does exist or it doesn't, if it doesn't and you perceive it, it's merely a delusion or a fiction.Plus, while it's true that our thought can change the world (real one, not imaginary one), it is true only to a micro degree as by itself our mind is part of external world as our mind is just a product of our biological composition and even if our thought manifests into an action such action is tiny and ultimately inconsequential in scale of entire universe. as even greatest of our achievements will be of no consequence in the long run.
 

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It is so hard to find a deep connection to another person. Yet I feel that is part of who we are as humanity. It is why we sing in choirs or play in a band, making music together as many becoming one voice and existing in balance and harmony. It is how the sum of the parts become greater than the whole. For the most part we seldom go further. Our minds are like voices or different instruments. Our thoughts are like notes that can compose a symphonic masterpiece. Yet we know little of how to work our notes together in harmony. It is not that we agree or disagree for such concepts are pointless. Unison is not unity. We seem to believe that what the majority agrees on is somehow the truth of things. Perhaps we think that we can somehow lay claim to the truth and make it our own like a possession. Truth is always to be sought after, in this way our minds begin to function in a different manner and in diversity work together.

Can your mind feel my mind in your thoughts. Can you hear ideas that flow and reshape and are ever changing that move us toward discovery. Our minds are different but are the network with unlimited potential. We could change the world with just a thought. Our reality is what our minds dictate to where our vision and reality are contain and even imprisoned in a box. Some say they can think outside that box, but we are made to live outside of that box.

This was not where I wanted to go, but if you can see this as an invitation to connect for our minds to join diversely as one, then let us try to go there and see where it will lead us.
Yes. Very very very hard to actually do that. Some people just give up. Others believe not possible, imaginary constructs etc etc. But if you do it, you feel satisfied, in a deep way that is otherwise inexplicable.
@UberY0shi has put it really succinctly up there. But it is hard to do it. Often times our own hearts and energies are out of alignment. Sometimes people want others to fix them. Sometimes some people would want to fix you.

on the positive side though, you are looking for such a thing and if you find another person looking for such a thing, you can make it happen, can’t you?

This thing has been oversold as well. So people are generally very sceptical about these ideas. Many believe it is merely mass marketed idea and nothing more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I do not think it is about the time spent with a person, it is about the ability to connect. There are times when a connection is spontaneous with another person. Maybe these are people who see individuality as a barrier that people surround themselves which isolates such people from each other. I know most people will think these ideas are ridiculous, but some may understand. The hardest thing is to find such people in discussion forums. Each person states what they believe is right. I am not looking for any to agree or to disagree. Just someone who seeks the same kind of connection and value the possibilities of such a connection.

Each individual's view of the universe is incomplete. But if we can begin to see the universe through each others eyes we see other possibilities and can come up with better answers and solutions. Our minds can work together when we are more focused on answers rather than being right. We can set aside whether we agree or disagree, because such things do not validate or discredit the ideas of others. We should embrace our diversity rather than fight and argue. We all want to find answers that work, answer that are good for everyone.
 

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I do not think it is about the time spent with a person, it is about the ability to connect. There are times when a connection is spontaneous with another person. Maybe these are people who see individuality as a barrier that people surround themselves which isolates such people from each other. I know most people will think these ideas are ridiculous, but some may understand. The hardest thing is to find such people in discussion forums. Each person states what they believe is right. I am not looking for any to agree or to disagree. Just someone who seeks the same kind of connection and value the possibilities of such a connection.

Each individual's view of the universe is incomplete. But if we can begin to see the universe through each others eyes we see other possibilities and can come up with better answers and solutions. Our minds can work together when we are more focused on answers rather than being right. We can set aside whether we agree or disagree, because such things do not validate or discredit the ideas of others. We should embrace our diversity rather than fight and argue. We all want to find answers that work, answer that are good for everyone.
So if I see through world of a schizophrenic or delusional cult leader how does help find answer that is good for everyone? If there is one answer is better than others then being right is crucial as it would determine which answer is the best? Therefore "fighting" and arguing is crucial to establishing what's correct answer or the best answer within a society. We should have ability to be diverse but it being the goal is pointless as not all views are equally correct. No, we don't want all to find answers to work, at least not for good of everyone many people are interested in finding answers that would benefit them or select group of people.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki

I once sat with a schizophrenic who was in a state of very deep apathy. The doctor told me the word for that emotional state, is it aphasia? Anyways, I was myself quite intensely emotionally drained at the time and just looking at him brought such relief to me that is not possible to be described in words. I sat with him for about 20 minutes but it seemed like ages spent together. I didn’t realise till I left that I was crying. In those 20 minutes I understood so much more than months and years of logical mental activity made me understand.

It it is when an individual is shut outside of his own person that he feels compelled to convince others that his mode of thinking is the only right one. A schizophrenic or a delusional cult leader still has a greater chance of communing with someone else than him.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki

I once sat with a schizophrenic who was in a state of very deep apathy. The doctor told me the word for that emotional state, is it aphasia? Anyways, I was myself quite intensely emotionally drained at the time and just looking at him brought such relief to me that is not possible to be described in words. I sat with him for about 20 minutes but it seemed like ages spent together. I didn’t realise till I left that I was crying. In those 20 minutes I understood so much more than months and years of logical mental activity made me understand.

It it is when an individual is shut outside of his own person that he feels compelled to convince others that his mode of thinking is the only right one. A schizophrenic or a delusional cult leader still has a greater chance of communing with someone else than him.
Ok, so you did read some kind of non-existent meaning into your meeting and your brain reacted accordingly to such imagination, just like it can in response to fictional story? Or perhaps you simply thought you understood more on basis of irrational impulse that you projected meaning onto while in reality you didn't obtain any actual understanding?

Sure, if individual takes into consideration objective reality not only his "la la land" convincing others to recognition of objective reality is of utmost importance in a society, otherwise you are just bunch of lunatics acting erratically and not being able to achieve anything because you mode of thought is so removed from actual reality that it fails identify rules of it and as such cause and effect. With a schizophrenic unlikely, with a cult leader possible as likely given they are cult leaders they have certain degree charisma, of course that such communing will be parasitic in nature and they will feed with with bullshit is another matter. Either way it's way better to "commune" with person that is locked in objective reality than in own lala land if you want something done or actually understand things, in other case if you wanna entertainment you could consider the latter.
 

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Either way it's way better to "commune" with person that is locked in objective reality than in own lala land if you want something done or actually understand things,
Give me an ‘objective’ proof of that. You say ‘way better’, so there is a qualitative judgement you are making. What are the parameters of this qualitative judgement? Again, objective parameters. And then an objective assessment based on objective parameters. Let us have it! Cure me of my subjective la la land! (I loved the movie by the way)
 

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Give me an ‘objective’ proof of that. You say ‘way better’, so there is a qualitative judgement you are making. What are the parameters of this qualitative judgement? Again, objective parameters. And then an objective assessment based on objective parameters. Let us have it! Cure me of my subjective la la land! (I loved the movie by the way)
Simply, who is responsible for inventions and understanding reality that improved our lives exponentially, scientists and inventors or priests and schizophrenics? And no scientists that were also religious don't count as their methodology of achieving such inventions wasn't prayer to the gods but inspection of objective reality.

Other question, if you wanted find a way to a certain place would you
a) Pray to the gods
b) Use GPS
c)go in the random direction hopping you will find it by an accident.

Which one do you think would be most effective find a way somewhere, answer is GPS, a product made because of our understanding of reality (as any other device you use including one you use to communicate with me), how would you quantify it simply by measuring efficiency against other approaches and by consequence is a reason why our and not only our civilizations adopted said approaches to it and those who didn't are no competition to a modern civilizations. This is why objective reality trumps la la land, as whether you like it or not you and others are constrained by it's rules, while you and others aren't by "la la land", at most other people can enforce their "la la land" but whenever there is a conflict between reality and fiction reality always wins, so if I believe I can survive something that is 100 % lethal and then subject myself to that thing I will die no matter of my conviction.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki

You don’t know what objective means in the first place. ‘Who is responsible, who is responsible’ and ‘what do you think, which do you think’ is not objective way of thinking. Don’t give me your subjective enchantment with gps or religion or inventions and exponents and priests. I said objective proof. Be objective. Don’t throw your subjective la la land at me.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki

You don’t know what objective means in the first place. ‘Who is responsible, who is responsible’ and ‘what do you think, which do you think’ is not objective way of thinking. Don’t give me your subjective enchantment with gps or religion or inventions and exponents and priests. I said objective proof. Be objective. Don’t throw your subjective la la land at me.
Or you're simply responding to a strawman? Those questions were merely were showcasing which approach tended to produce tools and means for which our civilization produces better quality standards and which methods provides superior efficiency wise solutions, what I pointed out can be objectively measured by efficiency of those solutions, it can even pointed out their manifestations in an objective reality.
 

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It is so hard to find a deep connection to another person. Yet I feel that is part of who we are as humanity. It is why we sing in choirs or play in a band, making music together as many becoming one voice and existing in balance and harmony. It is how the sum of the parts become greater than the whole. For the most part we seldom go further. Our minds are like voices or different instruments. Our thoughts are like notes that can compose a symphonic masterpiece. Yet we know little of how to work our notes together in harmony. It is not that we agree or disagree for such concepts are pointless. Unison is not unity. We seem to believe that what the majority agrees on is somehow the truth of things. Perhaps we think that we can somehow lay claim to the truth and make it our own like a possession. Truth is always to be sought after, in this way our minds begin to function in a different manner and in diversity work together.

Can your mind feel my mind in your thoughts. Can you hear ideas that flow and reshape and are ever changing that move us toward discovery. Our minds are different but are the network with unlimited potential. We could change the world with just a thought. Our reality is what our minds dictate to where our vision and reality are contain and even imprisoned in a box. Some say they can think outside that box, but we are made to live outside of that box.

This was not where I wanted to go, but if you can see this as an invitation to connect for our minds to join diversely as one, then let us try to go there and see where it will lead us.
I agree with the general sentiment of wanting/seeking deep connections and for people to come together, but in practice I've found people having different interpretation of what that means. For example, I often see people (usually NFJs) say things like the bolded, which to me reads as projecting on the other person, essentially feeling and experiencing a connection of their own making, rather than accepting what the other person feels. Then at some point, the delusion shatters and they lament. To maintain diversity, one should avoid such projections.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki
There is no relevance of Global Positioning System to the question I asked. Those questions were not showcasing anything. If anything they were showcasing your subjective opinions on some random subject, that I will not put my head into what it is. Post after post, thread after thread you showcase your poor subjective assessments in the garb of some very misconstrued idea about objectivity. And it is you who treat other people like straw man. Do you want example for that? Look how recklessly you brought your pathetic examples of schizophrenia and cult leader to something really beautiful that the OP said. You took his idea and reduced it to something hollow and empty. Then you put your own straws of understanding into it and now you want to beat it to death. That is what strawman fallacy is and you do it to people, not the other way around.

Grow up! Someone is reaching out to you with a lot of concern. Your subjectivity has its own value in the world. So does other people’s. Here at PerC, you can find voice and value for your own. On the other hand, you can keep on trumpeting your falsely understood idea of objectivity. But that will not lead you anywhere. The choice is yours. I rest my case.
 

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@NagatoUzumaki
There is no relevance of Global Positioning System to the question I asked. Those questions were not showcasing anything. If anything they were showcasing your subjective opinions on some random subject, that I will not put my head into what it is. Post after post, thread after thread you showcase your poor subjective assessments in the garb of some very misconstrued idea about objectivity. And it is you who treat other people like straw man. Do you want example for that? Look how recklessly you brought your pathetic examples of schizophrenia and cult leader to something really beautiful that the OP said. You took his idea and reduced it to something hollow and empty. Then you put your own straws of understanding into it and now you want to beat it to death. That is what strawman fallacy is and you do it to people, not the other way around.

Grow up! Someone is reaching out to you with a lot of concern. Your subjectivity has its own value in the world. So does other people’s. Here at PerC, you can find voice and value for your own. On the other hand, you can keep on trumpeting your falsely understood idea of objectivity. But that will not lead you anywhere. The choice is yours. I rest my case.
There is absolutely relevance in that as it regarded to superiority of knowledge about objective reality to one concerning about some subjective and fictional one, what was part of the comment you responded to, and GPS (and other examples) are products of it as they are invented and created through obtaining knowledge about working of objective reality and how methods based on conviction that isn't based on reality simply fails to produce it and achieve same or better efficiency at least consistently (on average). Now granted basing importance of efficiency is in itself preference and therefore subjective but measurement in itself is based in objective reality and and given overwhelming majority of people have result they desire efficiency is crucial in a life of almost every human it's quite fitting metric as demonstration of superiority. Correction, depending on a specific ones, in that case assessment made on basis of objective reality and then filtered through value system.

How do you know I've characterized what they've said incorrectly, if you aren't them or they didn't explain what they actually meant to you? Now, granted it's possible I misinterpreted what they were saying and provided refutation for an argument they weren't making as I relied on my interpretation of what they were saying while they could have be trying convey something else. Hence, If I did they simply should come out and clarify they were arguing different position than I've actually addressed. Besides, even if I was doing it to the people (you didn't really specified how I did it, up including this instance, you just expressed own opinion of me hollowing his argument rather than pointing what was his argument and how it did differ from my representation of it), that still wouldn't discount in any way notion that other people do that to me as those aren't dependent on each other.

You would have clarify what you mean by grow up in order to me at least consider attempt of doing so, otherwise your call for me "correcting" my behavior is open to my interpretation.Concern about what? It doesn't, my subjectivity has value to me, reality is indifferent to it. Unless by the world you mean human society what brings us to importance of efficiency in regard to functioning it but then idea that others people subjectivity is important in such regard in nonsense. Not mine idea, your idea of mine idea of objectivity, I simply use or at least try to use it in accordance to dictionary definitions and clarified somewhat (hopefully effectively) what I meant by pointing it's better to hang out with person that is grounded in reality than in fiction. Given my actual idea (not really mine) of objectivity lead to producing inventions that vastly improved quality of our lives I would say it could "lead me pretty far", or at least further than I would be otherwise.
 
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