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In all of the descriptions I've read, they state that SJ's are likely to value and honor tradition. However, with the SJ's that I've met that are younger (in their teens/college aged) tradition doesn't seem to be that important to them. This may be because they're younger and have yet to develop the appreciation for tradition that they will develop when they're older, but another possibility has crossed my mind: could the SJ's like of tradition be more geared to the SJ's of past generations? Could the SJ's of more recent generations be different?
 

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SJs aren't so much geared towards tradition, more towards what they've been taught is right and the standards they've been brought up with. Whatever an SJ learns in their childhood, they are likely to stick with, because that's a feeling of security and it's what they feel is right.

So even if their actions aren't so traditional, they'll still stick to them, simply because they've always been doing them. It's a Si thing, using past experiences as models for the present and the future.
 

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Most of the SJ types I know think traditionalism is stupid and pointless...including my 50+ and 60+ year old parents (an ISFJ mom and ISTJ dad). It's really inferior Ne that makes them this way in terms of stereotypes more than anything, as well as the dominant Si mindset of maintaining elements of their past in their present lives and making quality out of it (Si is a pretty aesthetic function, really).
 

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When I read the stuff about SJs and tradition I almost had myself convinced that I'm not one because what society sees as 'tradition' and all the conservative values that go along with that are extremely unimportant to me. It took a very patient INTP to explain to me that it's not tradition and traditional values per se that SJs value, it's something more personal. So yes in a way younger SJs will not necessarily be traditionalists like previous generations, though they will possibly be if their parents are and have taught them those values. In my case my 'tradition' is very liberal parents who encouraged thought, academics, discussion etc, so I come with a very different mindset than the supposed normal traditions. I have my own personal set of traditions too - I make the same dish every Christmas, there are certain things we do as a family every week etc etc. These are traditions, they are very important to me, but none of them is 'traditional' in the sense that it is generally understood.
 

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The "traditionalism" stuff is based on Keirsey's nonsense and a general ignorance about the nature of Si in general.

I'm an ISFJ and I'm a Socialist and a social liberal. Now, I am TEMPERAMENTALLY conservative, in that I have an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude, that is, I think reforms should be done to solve actual problems, not done to fulfill the Utopian vision of some N-Dom. (I mean no offensive to all you Ne and Ni Doms, LOL!!!)
 

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Yeah, I pretty much function in the polar opposite way of Si doms, as an Ni dom ("If it ain't broken, fix it, because I can't stand accepting something as it seems - that's terrifying to me"), LOL.
 

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I have my own personal set of traditions too - I make the same dish every Christmas, there are certain things we do as a family every week etc etc. These are traditions, they are very important to me, but none of them is 'traditional' in the sense that it is generally understood.
Now, I am TEMPERAMENTALLY conservative, in that I have an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude, that is, I think reforms should be done to solve actual problems, not done to fulfill the Utopian vision of some N-Dom. (I mean no offensive to all you Ne and Ni Doms, LOL!!!)
Now you see, this is what I think of though when I think of SJs having some tendencies towards conservation and tradition. Not that they're all politically conservative or just do what their elders say (lol), but that there's the tendency to keep certain patterns as long as they're working, and to conserve things of a certain significance. Perhaps, less likely to switch the Christmas dish to a tray of fancy hot dogs and spicy omelette bake just because they can.

But yeah, there's some major misconceptions about what that "tradition" part really means. Like, getting a tattoo might be seen by some people to be anti-traditional because it is seen as a sign of rebellion, except that even the concept of the tattoo is often that of an impressionistic permanence, and so at least in that aspect actually appeals to the Si perspective.

Oh you Ni dom, interrogating reality. :laughing:
On some occasions I take reality in a back room, shine a light on it, and demand it to tell me what it will do on April 27th 2058. Reality tells me to stop being so ridiculous. But it didn't even get close to telling me anything about it so this is how I know it must be hiding something :tongue:
 

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Now you see, this is what I think of though when I think of SJs having some tendencies towards conservation and tradition. Not that they're all politically conservative or just do what their elders say (lol), but that there's the tendency to keep certain patterns as long as they're working, and to conserve things of a certain significance. Perhaps, less likely to switch the Christmas dish to a tray of fancy hot dogs and spicy omelette bake just because they can.

But yeah, there's some major misconceptions about what that "tradition" part really means. Like, getting a tattoo might be seen by some people to be anti-traditional because it is seen as a sign of rebellion, except that even the concept of the tattoo is often that of an impressionistic permanence, and so at least in that aspect actually appeals to the Si perspective.
Yeah exactly. There are things I am perfectly happy to change or experiment with just because I can but those are always things I'm not particularly attached to. Things that I have attached personal significance to, however, become traditional to me and woe betide anyone who tries to come between me and them without some powerful evidence that something else will be better. It would have to be better because 'just as good' isn't enough to overpower the personal significance I have attached to whatever tradition the other person is trying to change :happy:

Also, interestingly enough, I have a tattoo. It is a memorial of a certain specific event/time in my life and I got it so I would have a permanent reminder - so, very much what you describe here.
 

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Don't take a loaded gun off the target or the sky if you're in proximity with an SJ though, they will go ape shit. It doesn't matter what generation they're from.
 

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I'm an ISFJ and I'm a Socialist and a social liberal. Now, I am TEMPERAMENTALLY conservative, in that I have an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude, that is, I think reforms should be done to solve actual problems, not done to fulfill the Utopian vision of some N-Dom. (I mean no offensive to all you Ne and Ni Doms, LOL!!!)
But, but, something that's not broken may still benefit from being further optimized for efficiency!
 

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SJs are not necessarily conservative or traditionalists or whatever... they just find comfort in certain constants. stability is the key word here. SFJ stability consists of skepticism towards others and themselves, in a negative sense, and reassurance/reinforcement of their constant presence/support, in a positive sense. STJs are extremely stable in that they run a tight ship and do all their maintenance subroutines.
 

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Yeah, I pretty much function in the polar opposite way of Si doms, as an Ni dom ("If it ain't broken, fix it, because I can't stand accepting something as it seems - that's terrifying to me"), LOL.
i prefer the "if its broken go ahead and fix it, but dont bore me with the details, all i care about is that it works"
 

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@Existentialismz
Don't take a loaded gun off the target or the sky if you're in proximity with an SJ though, they will go ape shit. It doesn't matter what generation they're from.
@celticstained


ha ha, very true (from an ISFJ that is a suspected E6)
 
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I'ma go ahead and chime in with "If it ain't broken, don't break it because that would be sad." Or "If it's broken, fix it because as beautifully tragic as broken things are it's too hearbreaking to not fix something that's broken."

Is this thing broken or not? Y'all are confusing me now.
 

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@Mendi the ISFJ

yeah lol--i meant, "or they're a 6"

i went to a shooting range the other day with a couple of friends and my girlfriend. she stopped shooting and aimed the loaded, chambered, "unsafe" gun at the person next to her while staring at the target--on accident.

i was like, "HER NAME!"... i like situations like that--being in a situation that could be potentially dangerous, and having that literally force you into the present--not carelessness. not to mention all the fun of trying to figure out how to hit something at 100 yards with terrible eyesight.
 

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@Mendi the ISFJ

yeah lol--i meant, "or they're a 6"

i went to a shooting range the other day with a couple of friends and my girlfriend. she stopped shooting and aimed the loaded, chambered, "unsafe" gun at the person next to her while staring at the target--on accident.

i was like, "HER NAME!"... i like situations like that--being in a situation that could be potentially dangerous, and having that literally force you into the present--not carelessness. not to mention all the fun of trying to figure out how to hit something at 100 yards with terrible eyesight.
Im just saying that'd really freak me out. Guns are dangerous, i prefer not to be around them at all.
 
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