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Discussion Starter #1
We INTJ see the big picture. We are able to crunch amazing quantities of data
and detect any pattern or trend. Those of us who are specifically gifted at the
hard sciences tend to be extremely good at estimating results, giving us very
accurate foresight capabilities fortune tellers can only dream of. Sometimes we
don't even think about it, the process is so fast it's like we just intuitively know.


Now think about the future of the human race for the next 30 years or so and tell
me in a few lines what your guts say will happen. Will the world economy collapse
or will it pull through. Will we kill each other over drinkable water or will we all just
die of famine and thirst after global warming reaches the tipping point of no return.
 

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I think things will have to get worse before they get better, I think we will have a giant collapse of the economy in the US for sure and/or government...government maybe more than 30 years away...50+ maybe? Then we will rebuild a new system...dunno what it will be...hope it would be positive.
 

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Honestly I don't think much will change in 30 years. I think that "alternate energy" will be more widely available, and I think society will see a shift toward acceptance of the LGBT community. Tensions between countries will decrease then increase. A new war will start, but apart from that, nothing "massive" will occur.

Oh, and time travel. Time travel will definitely happen. (In my dreams.)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think that in a rather short time, Portugal, Italy, Turkey and France will join Greece & Spain
in the economic collapse club. They will surely take others out with them. This will also
be the trigger for North America that will make the 1929 crash seem like a golden era.
Unsatisfied populations will walk down the streets. Police repression will reach a new high.

With global warming already going wild and the simple fact that there is really nothing
we can do about it, natural catastrophes will continue to grow bigger and happen more
often. People will starve to death because of the severe droughts while at the same time
being drowned by apocalyptic hurricanes. Civil war will be a real concern. Being alive will
no longer be a right, you will have to fight at every moment to survive.

The US will lose whatever power and influence it still has in the East and South. Losing control
of the shipping lanes and oil fields. Smaller rogue countries will realize that the mighty US
army will no longer be able to uphold whatever political views the US government wants and
many small but bloody conflicts will spiral out of control. Specially in the Mideast. People will
be afraid and the odds are some might resort to nuclear deterrence.

Governments will fall. People will die. Perhaps up to half the population of the Earth will die.
Chaos will ensue. I am far from convinced that the human race will survive this event in the
long term, and if they do, things will never be the same. Even in those circumstances, people
will try and take advantage of others. Religious freaks will arise and blame it all on science and
technology. Scared people are so easy to control.

Stock brokers, lawyers and other crooks of the like will probably not survive given their softy
hands and chances are the poor people of this world will do better in this crisis than most. I
think this scenario is not only plausible, I think it's inevitable. The Earth's biosphere is simply
too complex and misunderstood for humans to do anything to prevent it. Regardless of our
technology or goodwill, we are just along for the ride. Better brace ourselves.
 
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I think it will be the exact same as it's always been. Maybe a little more polite. Ha Ha...
 

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I'm not too well-informed about hard sciences or politics, but I like to think I know something about culture.

There's a growing trend towards optimism and sincerity in the West. Irony and scepticism are falling out of fashion, and people are more deeply embracing nostalgia and sentimentality. They're developing a sense of urgency to help the world and create a better tomorrow.

As a result of that, I see propaganda in the West growing stronger and stronger. Corporations will continue to gain capital, both in the more obvious concrete forms and in the form of trust. They will use humanitarian endeavors and charismatic leadership to gain not just customers and employees, but disciples. I see a new wave of patriotism (or something like it) forming, but it won't be tied to nationalism. People will believe in private organizations the way previous generations believed in their countries.

Globalization will continue, but Westernization will slow down. The hero complex of the West is really starting to crack. I also think it's possible that the US will not remain as the dominant global power for the next 30 years. And the idealization of democracy will diminish, as well.
 

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haha, reading your post reminded me of a prophet who said that there will be a civil war that will destroy the most of European population and religious extremism will take over (New Dark Age) and a nuclear war to top it all and destroy flora and fauna.

This is the worst of the worst scenarios. If we quickly restored socialism and stopped this ongoing globalization crap we'd be much better off. Capitalism and greed got out of control long ago and it's only getting worse.

With the challenges of climate change we cannot afford to deal with politics too much. We have to change our ways to environment friendly and adapt.
To find new solutions and build new systems. New world.
 

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I think that in a rather short time, Portugal, Italy, Turkey and France will join Greece & Spain
in the economic collapse club. They will surely take others out with them. This will also
be the trigger for North America that will make the 1929 crash seem like a golden era.
Unsatisfied populations will walk down the streets. Police repression will reach a new high.
Several European countries will join the economic collapse club, I agree. Mostly from entitlement and a "sensational media" involved in electing politicians. North America won't crash heavily in the next 30 years though, though it will begin to decline further and further.

With global warming already going wild and the simple fact that there is really nothing
we can do about it, natural catastrophes will continue to grow bigger and happen more
often. People will starve to death because of the severe droughts while at the same time
being drowned by apocalyptic hurricanes. Civil war will be a real concern. Being alive will
no longer be a right, you will have to fight at every moment to survive.
Climate change (not global warming) is an issue, however won't manifest in anything greater than what we've been experiencing the last decade or so. Civil war in the US won't occur, and survival in the US won't be an issue.

The US will lose whatever power and influence it still has in the East and South. Losing control
of the shipping lanes and oil fields. Smaller rogue countries will realize that the mighty US
army will no longer be able to uphold whatever political views the US government wants and
many small but bloody conflicts will spiral out of control. Specially in the Mideast. People will
be afraid and the odds are some might resort to nuclear deterrence.
The US will maintain great influence and power in the Mideast (though lose some to Russia and China), and China will gain more and more as well. The US will begin mining oil in the US due to increase demand and decrease access in the Mideast. US government and army will become more and more Internet based, which will increase control in other parts of the world as well. Nuclear war will never occur.

Governments will fall. People will die. Perhaps up to half the population of the Earth will die.
Chaos will ensue. I am far from convinced that the human race will survive this event in the
long term, and if they do, things will never be the same. Even in those circumstances, people
will try and take advantage of others. Religious freaks will arise and blame it all on science and
technology. Scared people are so easy to control.
As wars have been decreasing in casualty count (as well as civilian casualties), they will continue to decrease; weapons will become smarter and more accurate. Islamic terrorism will continue to be at the center of war, and the US will continue to use it as an excuse to go to war.

Islamic religion will reach its peak in 30 years, then begin to diminish as Christianity is at its peak now. Until it reaches its peak, Islamic religion will continue to increase in the West.

Stock brokers, lawyers and other crooks of the like will probably not survive given their softy
hands and chances are the poor people of this world will do better in this crisis than most. I
think this scenario is not only plausible, I think it's inevitable. The Earth's biosphere is simply
too complex and misunderstood for humans to do anything to prevent it. Regardless of our
technology or goodwill, we are just along for the ride. Better brace ourselves.
The US will continue to develop corrupt capitalism even while it declines (I agree with this). Environmental issues will continue to be a major concern and addressed, and 30 years from now the focus will be heavier than it is now. We will begin using the moon as a dumping ground for nuclear waste, and begin to utilize nuclear power as a temporary green energy. (Inevitable replacement, and the scare tactics regarding nuclear energy will largely diminish as we have fewer and fewer options.)

China's economy will begin to decline and collapse in the next 5-10 years, allowing the US to maintain superpower status. (The US will still decline in power.)

Cultures will continue to assimilate into each other (as well as religions and races), decreasing social pressure in general, and increasing Islamic and Christian cultures to appear "anti other-race" and "anti other-religion." Becoming more stark and obvious to the general public, both religions will then begin to decline. Interracial coupling will be more frequent, and will be a "beginning point" where the human race finally begins to accept all races (largely due to simple inevitability).

In the US, political correctness and sensationalism will continue, allowing the government to become extraordinarily powerful over their subjects.

The Republican party will move to the Libertarian party, inevitably accepting several "key" social issues: marijuana use, acceptance of the LGBT community, acceptance of any religion, accepting of less traditional social values. In 30 years however this change will be in its infancy, and the party will still be anti-abortion. The party will still focus heavily on "traditional values" at this point, citing the constitution as an excuse to maintain and encourage many traditional social norms.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@Revenant & @Aenye

You guys are missing the point. The thread doesn't ask for a point by point counter.
I want your thoughts only. This is INTJ forum. I'm expecting precision here.
 

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@Revenant & @Aenye

You guys are missing the point. The thread doesn't ask for a point by point counter.
I want your thoughts only. This is INTJ forum. I'm expecting precision here.
I used your comments as a template. I covered much more than your points, but thought your points were a reasonable enough template to work off of.

I provided more precision as to the why and cause and effects, then you did, too.

And guess what.. THAT WAS NOT THE FUCKING POINT. Heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr :rolleyes:
I'm expecting precision here.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I provided more precision as to the why and cause and effects, then you did, too.
And guess what.. THAT WAS NOT THE FUCKING POINT. Heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr :rolleyes:
 

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Those of us who are specifically gifted at the
hard sciences tend to be extremely good at estimating results, giving us very
accurate foresight capabilities fortune tellers can only dream of.
First of all I'd just like to say from my own experience with people who are knowledgeable in the realms of hard sciences, being knowledgeable in the realm of hard sciences does not make anyone good at predicting things in the context of social sciences. Being knowledgeable in the realm of social sciences makes someone good at predicting things in the context of social sciences. They're very different things, so please don't be so arrogant to claim your abilities hold great relevance in a completely unrelated field.

I only have two predictions, both of them relatively minor. Firstly, the cultural preference for male children in China - to the point of gender specific abortion - combined with the one-child policy is setting them up for problems. If I'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, but males who are committed to romantic relationships have lower testosterone levels than single men, especially those searching for a relationship. That means that there very well could be a great deal of guys pumped up on testosterone running around China looking for a mate in the near future, generally causing trouble and not being the efficient factory workers the Chinese government wants. Unless the problem is addressed, it has the potential to cause severe internal strife and at its absolute worst an expansionist policy.

The other is that, like it or not, oil prices are probably going to continue to rise. If not because oil is becoming more difficult to access and refine, then because automobile popularity is rising in China. China with the 1.35 billion population. Oil is a global commodity, so if some worker in China wants to buy a car, it's going to affect some worker in America who already has one.
 

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The next 30 years of humanity. That's quite a topic. I'll use my irrational and subjective Ni function to come up with some thoughts.

A large part of me identifies with the people who believe we are entering a "Neo-Medieval" period. The old stables of political allegiance and social and cultural cohesion are becoming confused and ambiguous to an extent not seen since the Middle Ages, and this development is going to shape the human future well beyond the next 30 years.

The original transition from classical antiquity to medievalism came about by the collapse of the institutions of Roman Imperium in western Europe. The formal governing apparatus of the Roman Empire was transcended by the migrants who filled all the imperial spaces - Goths, Vandals, Huns, Avars, etc. The barbarian chieftains and the feudal lords who succeeded them attempted to preserve the forms of the old Roman order; the Pope replaced the Pontifex Maximus, the old Roman official in charge of religious rites, as the supposed religious leader tasked with keeping the old imperial spaces together through the glue of a common religion, and the Holy Roman Empire, as the secular "sword" of Christendom, so to speak, claimed to be the restoration of the Roman Empire in the west. Despite these pretensions, however, the political and social order of Europe during the Middle Ages was terribly confused; it was a tangled web of feudal dynasts competing or cooperating with one-another for the attainment of titular power, notably in the form of noble or royal titles. Kings and Queens were the most "prestigious" of these dynasts, but they by no means exercised the kind of ruling power that they claimed.

The King of England, for example, held the title, "King of England", but his word was not necessarily law in England by any means; for any major policy decision he made to be enforced, he had to persuade or coerce the feudal lords under him to implement his sovereign power. Feudal hosts could, and did, openly defy and confront their titular rulers and other feudal hosts in battle if their interests did not align. And overlaying all of this was the perennial struggle between Pope and Emperor for titular supremacy over the whole of the former Roman Imperium. It became impossible to pinpoint where the real power lay at any given time, and the old Roman order, in which one knew who one's rulers were, what political space they inhabited, and where one lay on the social and cultural landscape, continued to exist only in the mind.

A similar set of phenomena appears to be taking shape in the world today. After the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, but especially in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, the national state took shape and became the primary actor in world politics. States with formal political structures, well-defined borders and a reasonable account of the class structures and economic institutions that were contained within them became the norm. A citizen of France had a good idea of his place in the world; He knew his primary political allegiance was to France, he had a good idea of his socio-economic status, he was probably a Christian and held this in common with most of his countrymen, etc.

But although this is mostly still true, the last few decades have seen the political, social and cultural lines of the world blurred. The rise of international institutions with ambiguous relationships with their member states, the wealth and influence of multinational corporations, the proliferation of non-state actors, some of them violent and radical, the development of the internet as a transnational medium of communication largely independent of state interference, the proliferation of global economic integration, especially since the 1980s, and numerous other factors have started to confuse basic concepts of loyalty and identity. States are still the primary actors at the moment, but their ability to define their "borders" (in more than a geographic sense) and to serve as the basis of social and political orientation is starting to be diminished. I believe this process will continue and have a great impact on human civilization in the next 30 years and beyond.

It will have great geopolitical consequences. For most of the twentieth century and especially since the end of the Cold War, the United States has led an international order based on promoting many of the international institutions and transnational actors that are commonly associated with globalization and the accompanying confusion of socio-political order; all of this under a system of universal values which the United States and its allies claim to be universal. States around the world have largely accepted this American-led order to a point because it was perceived to be in everyone's benefit - the American order would limit the potential for open conflict between major powers, and would sponsor an international system that would provide for the peaceful accretion of economic and industrial power for all parties.

As states begin to feel their sovereign power slipping away, however, due to the processes of globalization, globalization will be conflated with Americanization and states will begin to band together to create their own political and economic spaces that can keep control over their own populations, block American interference, and create new systems that operate for their own benefit. This process has already been occurring with the consolidation of the European Union, the rise of China and the founding of the SCO, the resurgence of Russian and the CSTO, the cooperation of the BRIC countries, etc. But I believe this trend will continue and intensify in the coming decades, leading to a quickening of America's relative "decline", as new independent political spaces are created and the world becomes, in this sense, a "larger" place than it was in, say, the 1990s.

This process will also have social and cultural impacts. International institutions, be they financial institutions, transnational political organizations, media outlets, or what have you, will rise to a position in which they will be, increasingly, the rule-setters of global life, whereas in the past they had their rules set for them by the states that controlled them. Thus, the ability of nations and their political leaders to set social and cultural agendas will be increasingly limited.

I also believe religion and ideology will become even more important in the 21st century than they were in the 20th. As individuals experience a crisis of identity with the weakening of traditional institutions, they will increasingly attach themselves to "abstract" institutions as sources of identity. Just as Christianity became a glue for post-Roman Europe, people will look for religious and political ideologies for feelings of kinship and loyalty as country declines in significance. There are already symptoms of this: very zealous forms of Christianity are flourishing in western and sub-saharan Africa, Latin America, India and parts of East Asia (actually, it is on the rise in virtually every part of the world outside of Europe and the United States); Islamic fundamentalism also remains a potent force, particularly in contrast to a more proudly-secularist Europe.

There's also the issue of the Arab Spring and what it represents. The Arab Spring, as we have known it for the last few years, is only the tip of the iceberg. A profound cultural and political shift is going to occur in the Islamic world, as the region's huge population of young people - many of whom are disenchanted, anti-establishment and unemployed, making them ripe for recruitment into political causes - will inevitably gain control of their respective countries and sweep the old authoritarian systems away like dust. This will also play out to a great extent in the next 30 years.





 

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Interracial coupling will be more frequent, and will be a "beginning point" where the human race finally begins to accept all races (largely due to simple inevitability).
huh, so accepting other races means spreading legs for them? How f*cking 'tolerant' and generous, like a slut.

Following the logic 'no race, no racial problem' death of all mankind is justified as it would solve ALL problems.

btw there's no 'human race', it's species.

And guess what.. THAT WAS NOT THE FUCKING POINT. Heeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr :rolleyes:
Well, that's the way an INTP mind works and it makes a lot of sense. He has proof, so to speak.

You guys are missing the point. The thread doesn't ask for a point by point counter.
I want your thoughts only. This is INTJ forum. I'm expecting precision here.
I'll give it a try.

Climate change will face us with challenges and raise awareness of the importance of science and methods it offers us to meet up those challenges. In face of the concrete and efficient solution science and knowledge offer, religion will fade to the background.
People will start worrying more about themselves and survival and less about petty things when a hurricane blows away their precious tv set and nail-polish collection. New ideas will be implemented, new ideas will be born and people will follow the ones who know how to do this.

Islamic countries will be taken over by extremists. People are many and more with every day, hungry and oppressed; fertile soil for more religion. Religious groups will blame this situation on 'evil Americans (whites primarily)' and any other non-Islamic group and recruit the poor and hopeless for jihad.




 

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huh, so accepting other races means spreading legs for them? How f*cking 'tolerant' and generous, like a slut.


No, amusing interpretation though. My point is that as more interracial couples exist, they will become a larger and larger minority. The larger the minorities become, the more accepting people are.

Following the logic 'no race, no racial problem' death of all mankind is justified as it would solve ALL problems.
I don't follow. Are you emphasizing your initial point, or making another one? Are you saying "to get rid of your headache, you can cut off your head"? Not sure how that would be relevant though. Sometimes I'm slow.

btw there's no 'human race', it's species.
The human race: S: (n) world, human race, humanity, humankind, human beings, humans, mankind, man (all of the living human inhabitants of the earth)



Well, that's the way an INTP mind works and it makes a lot of sense. He has proof, so to speak.
Eh I guess I really am slow today. What?
 

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I don't follow. Are you emphasizing your initial point, or making another one? Are you saying "to get rid of your headache, you can cut off your head"? Not sure how that would be relevant though. Sometimes I'm slow.
Yes. There are many people suggesting this.



This is a new term , if I'm not mistaken. And useless and ludicrous. Synonyms you mentioned don't cover it because race refers to primarily skin color differences in human species. In a cultural/psychological sense, it would be mankind.

First they say race is about skin color difference, now they want us to believe there's no skin color (or any other difference) and that we're all the same race.
:rolleyes:

But half of this is off-topic.
 

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Jesus' Second Coming.
 

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This is a new term , if I'm not mistaken. And useless and ludicrous. Synonyms you mentioned don't cover it because race refers to primarily skin color differences in human species. In a cultural/psychological sense, it would be mankind.
Off topic:


 
Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows. - Napoleon Bonaparte

The human race is governed by its imagination. - Napoleon Bonaparte

The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter. - Mark Twain

Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

If the human race wishes to have a prolonged and indefinite period of material prosperity, they have only got to behave in a peaceful and helpful way toward one another. - Winston Churchill

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. - Robert A. Heinlein

You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. - George Bernard Shaw

Everyone who wants to do good to the human race always ends in universal bullying. - Aldous Huxley

Contempt for happiness is usually contempt for other people's happiness, and is an elegant disguise for hatred of the human race. - Bertrand Russell

To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race. - Calvin Coolidge

The brutalities of progress are called revolutions. When they are over we realize this: that the human race has been roughly handled, but that it has advanced. - Victor Hugo

The four characteristics of humanism are curiosity, a free mind, belief in good taste, and belief in the human race. - E. M. Forster

Poetry fettered, fetters the human race. Nations are destroyed or flourish in proportion as their poetry, painting, and music are destroyed or flourish. - William Blake

-

On topic:

I agree that there does exist an unconscious interest in people removing the concept of racial differences. It appears (unless I am mistaken), that you are against this concept. I, for one, currently believe culture is by and large a negative affect on society and the world; and that cultures breed "culturism." (Or whatever the word for "universal dislike for others who show opposing stereotypes of their own culture.)

It seems we would strongly disagree, though not because of some silly semantic-oriented concept you are imagining up, but because you (seem to) identify the necessity of racial (cultural) differentiation. Do you believe that the racial "merging" as I suggested won't begin to happen in 30 years? (And I mean in the way I "prophesied" it to: racial coupling will continue to occur in greater instances, and racial boundaries will cease to exist in more and more cultures.)
 

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Off topic:

I agree that there does exist an unconscious interest in people removing the concept of racial differences. It appears (unless I am mistaken), that you are against this concept. I, for one, currently believe culture is by and large a negative affect on society and the world; and that cultures breed "culturism." (Or whatever the word for "universal dislike for others who show opposing stereotypes of their own culture.)

It seems we would strongly disagree, though not because of some silly semantic-oriented concept you are imagining up, but because you (seem to) identify the necessity of racial (cultural) differentiation. Do you believe that the racial "merging" as I suggested won't begin to happen in 30 years? (And I mean in the way I "prophesied" it to: racial coupling will continue to occur in greater instances, and racial boundaries will cease to exist in more and more cultures.)
There's a difference between culture and savagery/stupidity; the line should be drawn clearly. In culture, we'd take all the good legacy, preserve it and build on it. We're asked to throw it away just for another global uniform culture.

One can cherish one's own culture as well that of another. One can keep to oneself. The problem is that people don't want to do that. What are multiculturalism other than people who stick their nose into other people's business and cross that border of respect for another, yet ask respect for themselves.

The very fact that people are punished for 'hate-speech' and 'racism' when they speak out and say that their culture and folk are dying or don't want multiculturalism is a proof.


If the pot continues boiling, yes, more people will mix definitely. And I don't see a major change being made yet.
 
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