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Come on now. Who else out there uses isolation and withdrawing as almost a life rule? People suck and I don't give a f*** a great proportion of the time. Why do you put up with nonsense? Love?
THE recluse
[INTJ]
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975 Posts
Yep, a reclusive sort here. i use reclusivity as a life rule, have no intention of changing that, and am quite content to be this way.
People do suck mightilly, being an INFJ, I have enough manners, or Fe, or just enouh compassion to actually give them the time of day if they decide to smile at me at the bus stop, but all in all, I'd rather they didnt bother.
I do have some INTJness though, as Im sorta on the F/T divide.
I'm sure that makes me a either a compassionate seeming INTJ, or a very poor INFJ.
Either way, people stil suck, have always sucked, and always will.
i dont hold out much hope for humanity.
I pick a few to interact with that dont completely make me want to kill them,... but only in small doses.
In this, dear OP, INFJ and INTJ's of the reclusive persuasion can find much common round.
As for love being the reason that makes people keep trying and interacting, I think you're spot on. Its the only thing that will ever realy mean anything to any one of us on a personal level, love, or lack of it, or being disappointed in it, can also be one of the main reasons that people withdraw into reclusivness too. A truly double edged sord, and a life force none of us can ignore,.. we can hide,.. but we cant ever stop the craving, its that damn pesky humanity of ours
G. x
People do suck mightilly, being an INFJ, I have enough manners, or Fe, or just enouh compassion to actually give them the time of day if they decide to smile at me at the bus stop, but all in all, I'd rather they didnt bother.
I do have some INTJness though, as Im sorta on the F/T divide.
I'm sure that makes me a either a compassionate seeming INTJ, or a very poor INFJ.
Either way, people stil suck, have always sucked, and always will.
i dont hold out much hope for humanity.
I pick a few to interact with that dont completely make me want to kill them,... but only in small doses.
In this, dear OP, INFJ and INTJ's of the reclusive persuasion can find much common round.
As for love being the reason that makes people keep trying and interacting, I think you're spot on. Its the only thing that will ever realy mean anything to any one of us on a personal level, love, or lack of it, or being disappointed in it, can also be one of the main reasons that people withdraw into reclusivness too. A truly double edged sord, and a life force none of us can ignore,.. we can hide,.. but we cant ever stop the craving, its that damn pesky humanity of ours
G. x
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83 Posts
I'm basically a recluse. Technically I leave the house now and then, but mainly just to do chores. I alternate between misanthropy where I hate people and want to live like a hermit and loneliness where I'd actually like to have some socialization. The internet is my 'happy medium', I get socialization but without having to commit to friendship.
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348 Posts
I have been called a "hermit". In college, the few friends I did hang out with kidnapped me from my apartment one night (when I was living with a girlfriend) and took me off to the beach. The overall theme was, "What's wrong man? We never see you."
Well, that is also a theme. People with whom I am close know that I like to be alone, but then berate me for not knocking down their door. I get the "you never call or write" from family as well....but they do not contact me. Why is the recluse, the hermit in charge of starting communication when everyone knows that it is not my inclination?
Well, that is also a theme. People with whom I am close know that I like to be alone, but then berate me for not knocking down their door. I get the "you never call or write" from family as well....but they do not contact me. Why is the recluse, the hermit in charge of starting communication when everyone knows that it is not my inclination?
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I like refering to my hectic social schedule as 'the splendid isolation'.
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Until people prove to me that they are worth my time and effort, that they can provide something to me that I can't get from anyone else, I will avoid them to remain reclusive. Those who have no value to me may as well not exist... but since they do exist, I tolerate them until they can prove to me what the value of their existence is. If that value has any positive merit it must vastly outweigh the negative. I will not bother to associate myself with unhealthy individuals, because I've already made the mistake of doing so and I regret it.
I want to progress in life; If I can do that while maintaining my reclusive ways, I will, if only to avoid the obscene complications which selfish, worthless people think they have some absurd right to assault me and involve me with.
Putting up with nonsense is tolerance. From my perspective, tolerance is not love. Love, in my opinion, is more about mutual understanding, acceptance and participation. I view tolerance as apathy, which is neutral. I tolerate certain things because I have to, not because of my emotional inclinations but as a duty. People who feel love for someone will not simply tolerate that person or that person's words or actions but will instead become involved in some way.
I show people that I care by NOT putting up with nonsense- if that bothers them, I will stop caring to then either tolerate or entirely dismiss them from my life. I'm not their parent, it's not in my value system to love them no matter what they do to me, to others or most crucially to themselves. I have standards for good reasons. Too many people have wasted my time and effort, as it is, I have no desire to waste more of it against my better judgment. When people ask me why I care, I thought it would be obvious, but they don't have my point of view. Everything that I see, I want to improve upon. I want everything to be efficient, productive and positive and for everyone to take accountability for their part in the process.
I do, actually, give a fuck. I do care. That's the problem.
I care a good deal too much. Too fucking much for my own good, compared to the people I've met who pretend not to, or worse, pretend they do then act completely contrary to their own proposal. The things which I do care about, not everyone else is going to care for. Hence, the isolation.
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I'm actually quite a sociable INTJ, in particular online. My house at times can be like a train station. Friendship groups are important to me, but I do prefer my alone time. I certainly don't draw energy from other people.
The thing though is that whilst I do have many close friends, they have all gone through quite a process. My friendship doesn't come easily but once it's there it's hard for me to sever it.
The thing though is that whilst I do have many close friends, they have all gone through quite a process. My friendship doesn't come easily but once it's there it's hard for me to sever it.
Your post reflects a lot of what I deal with.
I guess what disappoints me about people in general is that they:
a) May have dreams, but spend all their time filling their physical and emotional needs.
b) All have issues they want to solve, but don't really want to bother... just complain.
c) They let society think for them too much
d) Lie to each other, and worse.. to themselves.
I had the same issues of course... as I am a person, but I worked to fix it.
These days a fair amount of people come to me with their problems. I usually find the root of the matter relatively quickly. Nobody ever wants to hear it, and low-grade hostility ensues, but they keep coming back... and keep trying to drown me in their drama.
If I think they're worth the effort, I'll keep at it. Otherwise, it's no skin off my back. It's been a long while since an interpersonal relationship has benefited me, aside from me getting some satisfaction that there's another human being who might "see the light", who will follow their dreams, who will push themselves to achieve. But teaching adulthood to a bunch of 20-30 year olds is like herding cats. Really damn tiring.
So, for the most part I've pretty much consigned myself to going it alone. It is hard, because there is something inside of us that does need that human interaction.
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Yes I am a hermit too. Surprised? I do have IRL friends that I have had for many years, hand chosen for their honesty and loyalty but most of them are either interstate of very busy with responsibilities. Usually it is one person who brings us all together to party (an ENTJ with awesome party making capabilities) and we meet up every now and then at a festival. We have all gone through a lot together and there has been a few moments where we have fought and when we have retreated to rethink. We have fought together and watched each others backs. RESPECT:wink:
I care deeply for people who are in my sphere but I have little interest in people who cannot think past one paradox. Sadly that is a hell of a lot of people.
The Bullshit factor and the Famous Doorslam
I have doorslammed exactly 7 people in the last 15 months but it isn't a testament to my great intolerance for bullshit. I simply weigh up the odds of ever getting anything but crap and drama from these people. Patterns emerge in interactions and it doesn't take long to realise that they will be everlasting unless something is done. Avoidance of some people is not always possible as they seek you out. The doorslam is the last option where you eradicate that person out of your very existence. There is never any doubt to both parties when the doorslam has occurred. It's over!
Being a hermit is preferable to living with constant fuss which wears you down.
I care deeply for people who are in my sphere but I have little interest in people who cannot think past one paradox. Sadly that is a hell of a lot of people.
The Bullshit factor and the Famous Doorslam
I have doorslammed exactly 7 people in the last 15 months but it isn't a testament to my great intolerance for bullshit. I simply weigh up the odds of ever getting anything but crap and drama from these people. Patterns emerge in interactions and it doesn't take long to realise that they will be everlasting unless something is done. Avoidance of some people is not always possible as they seek you out. The doorslam is the last option where you eradicate that person out of your very existence. There is never any doubt to both parties when the doorslam has occurred. It's over!
Being a hermit is preferable to living with constant fuss which wears you down.
Seems to be a good place to remind us all that once our dominant type is established, to be complete people we then need to begin developing our inferior functions. I, too, tend toward reclusiveness, but humans are a social animal, and we are human. Besides, too much comfort is overrated. Where's the challenge in that? And by the way, hello to all my fellow INTJ's. Just found this wonderful forum, and I believe it will be around for a long time; I think it's great; I feel it's O.K.; and please don't bore me with the details!
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71 Posts
I'm very much a recluse. After an hour or two of socializing, I begin to crave solitude again. Sweet, sweet solitude.
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I definitely have to spend energy to socialize, but there's too much to gain from friendships and relationships and not enough in solitude to NOT socialize as much as possible.
I have a job that requires contact with a lot of stupid people, so I'm naturally drained after work. My wife, an ENFP, really wants me to come out and spend time with our friends, but anything more than once a week is a chore for me. She understands that my being alone and her spending time with our friends (at least one of whom is also an ENFP) works out best for both of us.
Of course, prior to my getting married, I went out a lot less. Even in big exciting cities I would actively try to find ways to be alone, either by going elsewhere or just going inside.
Of course, prior to my getting married, I went out a lot less. Even in big exciting cities I would actively try to find ways to be alone, either by going elsewhere or just going inside.
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558 Posts
Growing up I was a recluse.
In school I was what everyone called a loner and a nerd. After school, I would sit at my desk (homemade from boxes and boards) drawing and writing until it was time for bed. Everyone should have known then that this trait would stick with me. Since I grew up sharing a bedroom with one of my brothers, I had created my corner of the room sectioned off by my desk. My personal corner was filled with my favorite things - paper, writing tools, art supplies, books, and quiet organization.
Today, I'm work from my home office, at my personal desk space, surrounded by my personal favorite things.
Just as much as I'm a hermit, not caring to interact with others (maybe once every 3-6 months I’ll have a desire), I also don't want anyone in my office. It's not often I have visitors, but being married to a super considerate, understanding and empathetic people person means I'm forced to say hello to people from time to time. Just don’t come into my office. It skyrockets my blood pressure. Don't touch anything! It's right where I want it! Don't look at anything; it will reveal the truth of my insane thought patterns! Don't open a single drawer; you'll find me crazy for the little trinkets I've got tucked away! However, if they would just start discussing science, biology, astronomy, geology or physics I imagine you'll see my head spin around and my eyebrows rose. 'Come on in here buddy, let's talk'. That's never happened. People just want to talk about what they had for dinner yesterday. Since the only thing I ate yesterday was some raisins and a ham sandwich at 9pm, only after my stomach warned me of impending doom, do you really think that topic interests me?
Someone else in this thread mentioned that their family and friends still berate them for their hermitic personality, in spite of already knowing they're a recluse. The same goes for me, from family and friends. For many years I was ashamed of being this way, and tried with full earnest to not be quite so reclusive. I didn't really understand it. Now, many moons into my mid-life here, I've finally accepted it all. Like it or not, here I am, for better or worse, until my days are over. It was liberating! Accepting it, and now having a positive outlook on it, has given me much happiness. I'm different, not less.
Oh and please don’t call me on the phone if you want to talk about it. Send me an email. Thanks!
In school I was what everyone called a loner and a nerd. After school, I would sit at my desk (homemade from boxes and boards) drawing and writing until it was time for bed. Everyone should have known then that this trait would stick with me. Since I grew up sharing a bedroom with one of my brothers, I had created my corner of the room sectioned off by my desk. My personal corner was filled with my favorite things - paper, writing tools, art supplies, books, and quiet organization.
Today, I'm work from my home office, at my personal desk space, surrounded by my personal favorite things.
Just as much as I'm a hermit, not caring to interact with others (maybe once every 3-6 months I’ll have a desire), I also don't want anyone in my office. It's not often I have visitors, but being married to a super considerate, understanding and empathetic people person means I'm forced to say hello to people from time to time. Just don’t come into my office. It skyrockets my blood pressure. Don't touch anything! It's right where I want it! Don't look at anything; it will reveal the truth of my insane thought patterns! Don't open a single drawer; you'll find me crazy for the little trinkets I've got tucked away! However, if they would just start discussing science, biology, astronomy, geology or physics I imagine you'll see my head spin around and my eyebrows rose. 'Come on in here buddy, let's talk'. That's never happened. People just want to talk about what they had for dinner yesterday. Since the only thing I ate yesterday was some raisins and a ham sandwich at 9pm, only after my stomach warned me of impending doom, do you really think that topic interests me?
Someone else in this thread mentioned that their family and friends still berate them for their hermitic personality, in spite of already knowing they're a recluse. The same goes for me, from family and friends. For many years I was ashamed of being this way, and tried with full earnest to not be quite so reclusive. I didn't really understand it. Now, many moons into my mid-life here, I've finally accepted it all. Like it or not, here I am, for better or worse, until my days are over. It was liberating! Accepting it, and now having a positive outlook on it, has given me much happiness. I'm different, not less.
Oh and please don’t call me on the phone if you want to talk about it. Send me an email. Thanks!
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348 Posts
That was me about family and friends....thank you for such an inspiring post! I have been trying and trying to be accepted by my wife.........rather than accepting myself.....and letting her deal (or not) with me.
Acceptance sucks.....especially when you just realize that perhaps you haven't fully accepted yourself and secondly, the woman you married hasn't either.
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558 Posts
I wish you the very best with that. I feel fortunate that mine is completely understanding, accepting and full of patience in this regard. Although, it seems possible that once you're happy with who you are, the other party will follow suit. One of those happiness begats happiness or laughter is contagious scenarios.
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All the above-mentioned is so recognizable. For leisure I like to do sports, mostly alone. I get along really well with myself and occasionally with others if they can keep up with me and when i tolerate their presence. It's definitely not my choice of lifestyle, but one that is the result of the interpersonal dynamics of people. I'm totally fine with it.
Perhaps it has to do with city life as well, and the culture we're brought up in. Many of us have become slaves of their jobs and lifestyles and are simply too tired to socialize properly in their spare time. I've really noticed that over the years the fabric of society is subject to social disintegration and that many people have fallen into the trap of individualism that we know as loneliness and isolation.
That said, sometimes my thoughts wonder about how great it would be if many can come together and do something greater together than by ourselves!:happy:
Perhaps it has to do with city life as well, and the culture we're brought up in. Many of us have become slaves of their jobs and lifestyles and are simply too tired to socialize properly in their spare time. I've really noticed that over the years the fabric of society is subject to social disintegration and that many people have fallen into the trap of individualism that we know as loneliness and isolation.
That said, sometimes my thoughts wonder about how great it would be if many can come together and do something greater together than by ourselves!:happy:
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I am a recluse, but not entirely satisfied with it. I am quite happy to spend vast amounts of time with a SO, but I don't seem to bother trying to make or keep RL friends. I also am not happy around a large group of "friends." That means that for the time being at least, my social life consists of avoiding bumping into people at the grocery store. Maybe I have just not found the right friends yet.
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