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The Instinctual Stackings of Enneatype Five


Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don’t want to consider.

With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.
Wow. I'm surprised by how absolutely true all of this is about me
 

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Thank you for this. In one test I am slightly ahead in 4, with 2, 5, 6, 9 close behind. In the other test I am pretty clearly ahead in 2. Soc/SP stacking fits me well enough. Overall I have to say my 6w5 Soc/SP fits me the best in these descriptions, especially the allusion to type 2, but I still am rattled by the fact that I don't come in first as 6 in either test. I know there is some kind of 3>6>9 progression... My 3 is low but my 9 is fairly high. I hope that supports my identifications.
 

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The Three Kinds of Eights

THE THREE SUBTYPES OF TYPE EIGHT express the passion of lust in three distinct ways. Self-Preservation Eights directly and powerfully pursue the things they need in order to survive. Social Eights have a need to protect others and go up against those who commit injustices. Sexual Eights are passionate and charismatic characters who go against social conventions in a provocative way.

The Self-Preservation Eight stands out as the most defended, or the most “armed,” of the Eights. Geared toward getting whatever is necessary to meet their needs, Self-Preservation Eights use their power to find the shortest path between their desires and the satisfaction of their desires. The Social Eight is a mellower, less aggressive Eight, who uses power to protect other people and promote social causes. The Sexual Eight is the most rebellious Eight, using their power to go up against authority an attract people through charismatic shows of intensity.

The Self-Preservation Eight: “Satisfaction”
 
The Self-Preservation Eight expresses lust through a strong need to obtain what they need for survival. The title given to this type is “Satisfaction.” THis person has a strong desire for the satisfaction of material needs and an intolerance of frustration, and they have a hard time being patient when it comes to not getting immediate satisfaction of their needs and desires. This intolerance creates a kind of ruthlessness in these Eights about going after what they want and finding ways to get around people who might stand in their way.
 
 


Self-Preservation Eights feel compelled to go after what they need very directly without talking about it much -- they know how to get things done without a lot of fuss or explanations. These people are the least expressive of the three Eight subtypes: they don’t talk much and they don’t reveal much. This is a no-nonsense person who doesn’t bother with pretenses. Self-Preservation Eights are preoccupied with getting things -- and getting away with things.

The driving need of Self-Preservation Eights can be described as an exaggerated ability to take care of themselves and find ways to meet their needs. In their focus on fulfilling their needs, they demonstrate a kind of exaggerated selfishness. They feel omnipotent in being able to satisfy and meet any need, and they disqualify and feeling, person, idea, or institution that opposes their desires. They will go against whatever.

These Eights are characters who know how to survive in the most difficult situations and how to get what they want from other people. Naranjo sometimes refers to Self-Preservation Eights by the name “Survival,” because they excel at generating the material support they need to survive and satisfy their desires.

Self-Preservation Eights know how to do business -- according to Naranjo, they know how to barter and bargain and get the upper hand over anybody. Because they are strong, powerful, direct, and productive, they may generate dependency in others who come to rely on their control and protection.

The Self-Preservation Eight is the most “armed” and protected of all of the Eights -- this is a more Five-ish Eight. THey tend to possess a quiet strength; they are survivors who communicate strength without feeling the need to explain themselves. For them -- at times, at least -- kindness and good intentions don’t exist. In their need to be strong to meet their needs, they ay devalue the world of feelings. And they may not be aware of the damage they cause to others.

These Eights may seek revenge without knowing why. In this way Self-Preservation Eights differ from the Social Eight or the Sexual Eight personality, both of which usually have a specific reason for acting in vengeful ways. This subtype appears more aggressive than the Social Eight (especially in men) and less openly provocative and charismatic than the Sexual Eight.

he Self-Preservation Eight can be confused with the Sexual One because they express a similar energy related to feeling an urgent need to “get what’s theirs.” But Naranjo points out that the contrast between the two types lies in the fact that the Self-Preservation Eight is fundamentally under-social, meaning they don’t mind going against social norms or breaking the rules, while the Sexual One is over- or hyper-social. Even though Sexual Ones are zealous in going after what they want, they still observe social norms, whereas Self-Preservation Eights care less about social conventions and will make their own rules to satisfy their cravings.

“I have always felt a very strong sense of personal responsibility for myself. I couldn’t and didn’t want to rely on anyone else to ensure I got what I needed from life. In order to do this I have been focused over the years on financial independence and earning my own living -- my work, my career, was everything. When my first marriage ended this became my primary objective for nearly a decade, to the detriment of any long-term personal relationship. It’s not that I had ambitions to be fabulously wealthy -- it was more about ensuring that my financial healthy was strong so that I felt secure and able to have control over choices about things like buying a new car, getting a new house, or where to go on holiday. I wasn’t a miser, and I didn’t hoard money. But I did spend money in a sensible and responsible manner. I got a financial advisor many years ago who has helped me with pension planning, good mortgage deals, and investments.

I was married for the second time -- to a man eleven years my junior -- and for nearly twenty years I was the breadwinner and still retained to “power” when it came to money. This dynamic has gradually changed over the years, and yet I find I am still the one who focuses on our financial affairs. When I feel stressed, this is where I find my anxiety and worry plays itself out -- imagining us destitute, homeless, and helpless, which would never happen due to my prudent planning over the years.”


The Social Eight: “Solidarity” (Countertype)
 
The Social Eight is the countertype of the three Eight subtypes. Social Eights represent a contradiction: the Eight archetype rebels against social norms, but the Social Eight is also oriented toward protection and loyalty. They express lust and aggression in the service of life and other people.
 
 


This person is “social antisocial.” In contrast to Self-Preservation Eights, Social Eights are more loyal, more overtly friendly, and less aggressive. They are helpful Eights -- people who are nurturing, protective, and concerned with the injustices that happen to people -- yet they also display an antisocial aspect with regard to the rules of society.

Naranjo explains that, symbolically, this character represents the child who became tough (or violent) in protecting his mother against his father. This is someone who bands together with the mother and goes against the patriarchal power and all that is associated with it: violence out of solidarity. Archetypally, this character represents the child who has given up on getting love from the father and allied with the mother against him.

Social Eights are very sensitive to detecting situations in which people are being persecuted or exploited by others that hold more power. When they detect this kind of thing, they tend to act to protect those who are less powerful. Karl Marx, the champion of worker solidarity and outspoken critic of capitalism, may have been a Social Eight.

Overall, this Eight appears more mellow and outgoing and less quick to anger than the other Eights. They tend to rebel in less obvious ways. They are very active, and they may lose themselves through constantly being in action. They may display a disproportionate lust for projects or for collecting things.

Socially, Social Eights like the power a group offers, and they may have difficulty engaging in more “individualized” relationships. In extreme cases, this Eight can tend toward megalomania. In close relationships, they may display a lack of commitment to the partner that hides an unconscious fear of abandonment.

In becoming a protector at too young an age, these Eights typically lose consciousness of their own needs for love and care. While people with this Eight subtype develop a strong ability to care for and protect others, they unconsciously give up their own need for love and replace it with a compensatory movement toward power and pleasure. It’s generally hard for an Eight to make their love needs conscious, and while they can seem softer or calmer than the other Eights, Social Eights also have a blind spot where their own needs for love and protection are concerned.

This Eight often doesn’t look like an Eight. Ichazo called this subtype “Friendship,” but Naranjo uses the descriptor “complicity” or “solidarity” to distinguish the everyday, positive meaning of the word “friendship” from what he calls the “ego game” of the Social Eights’ unconscious personality pattern. According to Naranjo, this individual’s main drive is for something like loyalty. The Social Eight subtype is the most intellectual of the three, but these Eights also rebel against the dominant (patriarchal) culture. This rebellion necessarily involves a mixture of authority and intellect because the dominant authority in patriarchal societies tends to promote the intellectual control of impulses and excess. While the Sexual Eight is the most overtly anti-intellectual of the three Eight subtypes, the Social Eight goes up against the power of authority out of a desire to protect the oppressed and, unconsciously, a personal need for the nurturance associated with maternal care.

Male Social Eights can look like Type Nines, and female Social Eights may resemble Type Twos. However, these Eights can be distinguished from Nines and Twos because they act in more direct, powerful ways, engage more readily in conflict, and express more power and control in seeking to protect and support other people.

“I am always doing something for other people and thinking that as soon as this current activity is finished then I’ll turn to what I want to do just for me. When I first encountered the Enneagram I thought I was a Two because I didn’t identify with the anger or the need to dominate. I was phobic of anger and unaware of my own underlying aggression. i wasn’t aware of how controlling my efforts to help felt to others, and I would be hurt when people pushed back and complained.

I frequently get pulled into the leadership role in groups and then get whacked for thinking I know what’s best to accomplish the task or project. In high school, to avoid this kind of pain, I started saying, “I’m not a leader. Don’t look at me to get this done.” It didn’t work. When I see something that needs doing, especially if it benefits others, I step in and get it done.

I have always been seen as friendly and yet have not had “best” friends that I was vulnerable with until late in life. It is hard to admit that I need help or concern or comfort. While I care about people and do a lot for them, I am realizing that I don’t allow mysef to have them matter that much to me. I have often left relationships without a look back. until recently, I have not been the one who maintains friendships. I both yearn for the closeness friendship provides an feel scared of it -- partly because I then feel obligated to take care of the other person no matter what.

I have been frequently hurt and puzzled by other people’s reactions to me, and I work consciously to avoid being experienced as “too much” or intrusive. When others experience me this way, i often feel misunderstood. because of this dynamic, I feel like I have to monitor my energy and impact so others can be comfortable. But I like the amount of energy and drive and decisiveness I naturally have. It is easy for me to start in a certain direction without too much planning and then make a course correction if needed. I have always been physically active, participating in both team and individual sports.

Fortunately, I was guided toward becoming a psychotherapist. In that role I have had a lot of practice with leaning back to hear the other’s experience, mirroring their truth back to them, and offering help with an open hand. I feel my openheartedness, but it’s more difficult to receive the love and gratitude others have for me. Most importantly, I’ve learned to trust that each person has their own wisdom and ability to live their life well.”


The Sexual Eight: “Possession”
 
Sexual Eights have a strong antisocial tendency. People with this subtype are provocative people who express lust through open rebellion -- through declaring in word and deed that their values differ from the norm. Along with being the most rebellious of the Eight subtypes, the Sexual Eight is, interestingly, also the most emotional.
 
 


This outspoken, rebellious Eight likes to be seen as bad -- or at least they don’t mind it -- and they tend not to feel any guilt over the rebellious things they do. It’s almost a matter of pride for Sexual Eights to go against the stream of convention or to disrespect rules and laws.

In childhood, many of these Eights experienced disrespect and a lack of affection and attention from one or both parents, so they decided (consciously or unconsciously) not to recognize maternal or paternal authority. This first rebellion against authority became the template for their strong rebellious tendencies.

The name given to the Sexual Eight is “Possession,” which refers to a kind of charismatic taking over (or dominance) of the whole environment -- an energetic capture of people’s attention. These Eights display the idea of “Possession” in that they can take over a whole scene energetically, becoming the center of things. Sexual Eights like to feel their power by possessing everyone’s attention. They express the idea that “the world begins to run when they arrive.”

Sexual Eights express a need for dominance and power over others. THey don’t want to lose control of anything or anyone, and they want to influence people with their words. Everything -- whether it is a person or a material thing -- is an object to possess. These Eights don’t seek material security; rather, they seek to get power over people, things, and situations.

In getting and maintaining this power, Sexual Eights can be fascinating and charismatic. Their power comes through a kind of seductiveness and intensity that differentiates them stylistically from the other two Eight subtypes. As Naranjo explains, these Eights have more colors in their feathers; they are more magnetic and more outspoken. THey have great powers of seduction.

These Eights look voraciously for love, sex, and excessive pleasure in life. They seek adventures, risks, challenges, and the thrill of an adrenaline rush. In like with their passionate forward movement into action, they may be particularly intolerant of weakness, dependence, and slow people.

As the most emotional of the Eights, the Sexual subtype displays a great deal of passion that may at times get expressed through emotions that may seem surprising to others and atypical for the other Eights. In these very passionate, emotional Eights, there’s often a detachment of the intellect -- while Sexual Eights may be very intelligent, they express action and passion more than contemplation in the things they do.

These Eights feel things deeply. This capacity can benefit a good relationship, but it can be a problem when a relationship isn’t going well. In romantic settings, Sexual Eights may encourage their partners to become very dependent on them or to treat them as the energetic center of their lives. They demand loyalty, but may not be faithful in return. (England’s King Henry VIII may serve as an example.) And they tend to have possessive relationships not only with lovers, but also with friends, objects, places, and situations.

This subtype can usually be readily recognized as Eights and is as not likely to be confused with other types. Hey may look like Sexual Fours in that both types can be angry, emotional, and demanding, but Sexual Eights distinguish themselves in their deeply confident (or confident) manner in contrast with the Sexual Fours’ sense of inner deficiency.

“As a Sexual Eight, I like to have a small group of trusted and trusting people around me. When my circle becomes too large, I become uncomfortable and withdraw. I like to be all things to the people in my inner circle, and when that circle becomes unmanageable, it make me a little “crazy.” Others can definitely feel it when I start to pull away. Those who are closest to me definitely notice when I am overcome by people who “need” too much.

On the other hand, I seem to “take care” of those around me. My sexual instinct can make this look like I am dominating or controlling the people around me. Although I am usually very conscious of my power over others, it is often difficult for others to resist the temptations to indulge me. I am absolutely charismatic and can convincingly bring others toward me without appearing to want adulation. people tend to think of me as a “guru,” and or the most part I lead and others follow without question. i have been told that my power is like a narcotic to others. And it happens without my having an awareness that it’s happening.

My sexual instinct also make me one of those rare people who can cross others’ usual boundaries without making them uncomfortable. I genuinely care about others and that translates into others feeling protected and safe in my presence. Someone close to me made this observations and it resonates with me: ‘People in your presence find themselves hanging onto your every word...looking to you for approval...seeming submissive and overcome with awe. There is the sense that you are continually looking for an equal -- someone who will provide that for you.’

I have been told that I exude sexuality. i am overtly sexual; I speak openly and frankly about sex. Perhaps it is partly for shock value, but it is never meant to be offensive. It is an honest and beautiful part of me and it also communicates my vulnerability. I have been told that one cannot be in a room with me without feeling my sexual presence or life force. I think it is part of what makes me so appealing. The charisma is hard to resist.

Naranjo was correct about Sexual Eights. Our colors are more vivid. As a Sexual Eight, my colors shine brightly, except for those times when my energy is zapped by my need to be both protector and protected. I feel an intense passion and zest for life. My energy is bountiful and bold. My powers of seduction can be consuming. Because I need what I give, I am not afraid to be vulnerable. I believe it is precisely this trait that makes me a gifted leader and teacher.”


I'll have Nine up within the week (I do have to type these up by hand...)
 

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No problem! Sorry it took so long...I've been away from this site for awhile. I actually felt really guilty about not finishing it haha. Typing the type Nine as we speak.
 

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Part 4. Overview of Instinctual Stackings


1) Social Instinct


a) soc/sx


  • Motivation: To create lasting connections with those they are interested in.
This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends.


  • Energy: outward energy expressed intensely, broadly
  • Mindset: "If I can get close to people with merging/intensity, I can make sure of and keep improving my position and inclusion in the group/world."
  • Blind spot: Likely to neglect their desire to seek intense connections and experiences for the sake of their primary concern of building their sense of personal value, accomplishment, and security of place with others, in average-healthy levels. May not have an awareness of the body's need for food or sleep, or of the need to accumulate wealth for reasons of security, or of the need to manage time or resources to establish an orderly lifestyle.
Examples of soc/sx: Michael Jackson, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, Margaret Cho, Jack McFarland from "Will & Grace"
Yep. XD

I have so much trouble establishing a regular sleep schedule. :/
 

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The stickies were compiled into one stickied thread when they got cleaned up. It's linked there.
My thread is stickied?
 

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Could somebody compare and contrast 8w7 sx/so and 8w7 sx/sp?
 

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Hi all. I was hoping to ask some SOCs to weight in on their primary "drive" when in a group of people.. as a sx, As well known I'm always seeking "connextion" a reassurance that I have a bond with the person Im interacting with. Trying to build a tribe I guess. But I know this doesnt work.. ennergetically I think it comes across as needy.. and it pushes people away. I trying to work out a new approach. When Socs socialize.. what is your primary / even subconsious urge/focus/want? My understanding is no "bond seeking" but more of an ensuring that everyone in the group is equally "all-right". Would you agree? Disagree? Please elaborate! Thank you! If anyone would like to have a conversation on this, please pm me!!
 

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3) Sexual Instinct

a) sx/sp


Motivation: To know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.


Energy: intense energy expressed calmly, steadily, assertively
Mindset: "If I can make (us) have an orderly & pleasing lifestyle, I can keep up and escalate all this merging/intensity."
Blind spot: Likely to neglect their desire to maintain physical saftey, comfort, and an orderly lifestyle for the sake of their primary concern of seeking intense connections and experiences, in average-healthy levels. May not have an awareness of the need to connect in a broader sense with the world, of a sense of security or in groups or of the need to seek it, or even of the need to foster approval, support, and understanding of themselves within groups they are connected with, often causing misunderstandings with allies, supporters, friends, and family members.
I relate to it ;-; , i have poor connection to groups than personal
I really aware to my own body , than groups. I don't give a fuck with social niceties ._.
 
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