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My adopted 15 yo ENTJ daughter has been through a lot of trauma and rough time, but after a suicide attempt and severe depression in the fall, has made great progress.

She is struggling with an issue that I dont know how to advise on but have seen other ENTJs exhibit.

She was deeply in love with a young women and then things went bad and they broke up. She is still very much in love with this young women but the other girl has no interest in a relationship.

My daughter is trying to date other people. However the cycle I see is that she meets a girl, they really like each other and enjoy each other's company, the other girl wants to have a relationship, and my daughter then withdraws. The other girl feels hurt and blames my daughter and my daughter then feels a lot of guilt but responds with a wee bit of spite and cuts the other person out of her life.

This has happened twice but I suspect is the start of a "revolving door" of potential partners and Id like to advise her on how to not repeat this cycle endlessly.

She says she does want to love these girls, but cant figure out how let herself love them as she is terrified of getting hurt again. Its not that she WANTS an non-committed relationship (which would be totally fine btw) but that she cant figure out how to feel affection...like an emotional blockage towards these new potential partners.

Each time this happens, she then rebounds into depression and feelings of love for the original "perfect" girl.

My advice has been you should never "love" someone after a few weeks anyways-you cant possibly know them and then the other girls are asking for a bit much too fast...but she still struggles with how to address her own fear and emotional freezing up.

Are their strategies of approaches that might help her think about this a different way?
 

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Idk about other ENTJs but I mostly struggle with feeling stuff, especially love (talking about romantic love here). My romantic relationship is very steady because my ISTP and I kinda have "routine", such as we'd have lunch with each other on certain days and when no one's around he'd put his arm around me, but not when our friends are around. Some days I don't feel anything for him, but our routine makes it easy for me to not do anything stupid to damage our relationship during these times. Feelings aren't always there. It might help her to know love is a decision to appreciate, make time for, care for, and be there for someone even when you no longer "feel" love.

Hopefully this helps
 
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Okay, I came back specifically because this topic called out to me, and I was refused. So alt account,, in all its symbolic glory.


Artem, I wish I could help you. I really do.
I've been involved with an ENTJ 8 with BPD and it is beyond traumatic. This from somebody who's been beaten, burt, shot, stabbed, raped, and abused in the ways one does not easily recover from (emotional trauma is always the worst--the body takes care of itself).
All I can do, sadly, is compare my own experiences. And assert that you are doing an incredible job of caring for this girl who does not want to be cared for.
For my own experience, I find that such types are highly vulnerable,





The ENTJ BPD I knew was very receptive to support.... until she wasn't.
It was almost random and arbitrary. One day she'd be praising me as a god for understanding her problems and helping her face them, the next she was a special snowflake nobody could ever understand and anybody who tried to make sense of her whims was reducing/diminishting her.



What it took me a very long time to realize is that all these fluctuations derive from weakness. From vulnerability and fear. At heart, underneath the tough exterior, is a terrified little girl, who desperately needs validation, but is scared to seek it because getting said validation would set her up for betrayal. And it's easier to assume somebody is unworthy, and betray them first, than to risk letting them in. Easier to be the badguy.
As Carlin said, scratch any cynic, and you'll find an disappointed idealist.

I wish I could give some actually constructive advice, as I know you truly care about this person. But my own ventures failed miserably. I can offer you this.
I tried being unconfrontational. Not easy for an ENTJ 1. I had to basically force anger into depression. Very dangerous. I made myself sucidial as a result of not letting myself be angry at her abuses.
But in practice I suspened judgement, let her be herself, let her do what she wanted, no matter how it hurt me, and made clear I would not judge her...
she called me pathetic.
Many times.
This acceptance was seen as weakness. As me being a pussy, a pushover she could do anything to. From this it can be discerned she wanted me to be angry. She wanted to drive me off.

Which brings us the the next level--
When she has driven me off, she always reaches back out to me. She tries to get my attention, personally or socially.
I think it's a personal war. She wants attention. She wants acceptance, but at the same time doesn't feel worthy of it. Your daughter may be suffering much the same. She is alone. She feels the world is against her. She feels "alienated."
I wish I could give you insight into how to deal with her, but I have failed miserablly in that depatment. So maybe helping to understand her will help instead. I hope it does, I truly do. From what you've said, this is a decent person, with a ton of potential, given a shitty lot in life, and she's chosen to pursue the shitty because she feels that's what she's due.
Having a parent like you is the best thing anybody could ask for. For all her problems, she's luckier than she knows.
 

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My adopted 15 yo ENTJ daughter has been through a lot of trauma and rough time, but after a suicide attempt and severe depression in the fall, has made great progress.

She is struggling with an issue that I dont know how to advise on but have seen other ENTJs exhibit.

She was deeply in love with a young women and then things went bad and they broke up. She is still very much in love with this young women but the other girl has no interest in a relationship.

My daughter is trying to date other people. However the cycle I see is that she meets a girl, they really like each other and enjoy each other's company, the other girl wants to have a relationship, and my daughter then withdraws. The other girl feels hurt and blames my daughter and my daughter then feels a lot of guilt but responds with a wee bit of spite and cuts the other person out of her life.

This has happened twice but I suspect is the start of a "revolving door" of potential partners and Id like to advise her on how to not repeat this cycle endlessly.

She says she does want to love these girls, but cant figure out how let herself love them as she is terrified of getting hurt again. Its not that she WANTS an non-committed relationship (which would be totally fine btw) but that she cant figure out how to feel affection...like an emotional blockage towards these new potential partners.

Each time this happens, she then rebounds into depression and feelings of love for the original "perfect" girl.

My advice has been you should never "love" someone after a few weeks anyways-you cant possibly know them and then the other girls are asking for a bit much too fast...but she still struggles with how to address her own fear and emotional freezing up.

Are their strategies of approaches that might help her think about this a different way?
There is nothing you can do or advise her about, just let her chase the rainbow until she realizes that there is more to life than chasing rainbows. The percentage of people who are in her situation is a lot higher than you'd think. If she remained in love with the "original girl" for the rest of her life and never moved on then I guess it proves that she really did love her.
 
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Maybe she would benefit from talking about it in therapy? I have ENTJ friend who is sadly "frozen" as well :/ He had this big love when he was young (about 17 I think) who left him and he never recovered. He's over 30 now, can't keep a girlfriend longer than few months and he keeps dating very young girls, about 16-18 years old. Sorry I don't have any better advice but if your daughter has a therapist for her other issues, you could try to poke around and make her talk to them about her relationships as well. Because the risk of this becoming a big problem in her later life is pretty considerable, judging from the experience of my ENTJ friend.
 

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This has nothing to do with being an ENTJ and everything to do with her bipolar and/or BPD nature. It's called splitting. Address her mental illness in whatever way that mental healthcare professionals advise.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For the record, I banned the daughter from dating anyone, took away her phone and social media and have prohibited her from contacting the previous girlfriend. To @Duo's point, the idealism she expresses is characteristic of BPD splitting. We have spent time talking about love not being emotions but instead being understanding and commitment and that she is projecting an ideal image of a partner on this other young women-who, albeit my ENFJ niece, is a very selfish, manipulative, PITA of a 15 yo lol. Two more suicide attempts and an attempt to purchase drugs at the bus stop have resulted in a bit more management as she cannot manage her own response to emotional triggers appropriately. baby steps.



Okay, I came back specifically because this topic called out to me, and I was refused. So alt account,, in all its symbolic glory.


Artem, I wish I could help you. I really do.
I've been involved with an ENTJ 8 with BPD and it is beyond traumatic. This from somebody who's been beaten, burt, shot, stabbed, raped, and abused in the ways one does not easily recover from (emotional trauma is always the worst--the body takes care of itself).
All I can do, sadly, is compare my own experiences. And assert that you are doing an incredible job of caring for this girl who does not want to be cared for.
For my own experience, I find that such types are highly vulnerable,
I realized you got banned-in case you should come back....

When I contacted the birth mother of my daughter I discovered she was in ISFP and she comes across about bit "hard". As her children turn 18, they move back in with her-she has an INTJ, and ISFP and three ENTJs as well as two little ones from her current marriage. She says "To parent my children you have be tough"

With the ENTJs in my life, I have found this to be true, although Id refer to it as firm and willing to manage expectations. They are just so BIG, and they are not well "contained" innately. It makes them brilliant in many ways but if around them you HAVE to manage them back into containment...like aliens, hahahah.

Not by being mean, hateful, cruel or vengeful. Not being ugly, willing to tolerate abuse or be pushed around. Not abrasive, aggressive or throwing temper tantrums. More like how one might interact with a direct report who is failing to achieve the desired results and needs some correction on what is expected.

Id suggest an approach of this nature:

You are a valuable team member/I really enjoy our time together as a partner/I love having you as part of my family...
You have great skills/you make me laugh and show me wonderful adventures/you are doing amazing in your recovery...

however

Your reqs are too poorly defined for the dev team to work from/your comments about wives wanting to steal money are rude/purchasing pot at the bus stop is unacceptable

because (bring it back to impact on others)

the team becomes very frustrated at you about wasting their time and sees you as not being invested/your comments reflect poorly on me due to societal expectations when in public/I will end up paying off your fines if you get arrested which I cant afford due to your medical bills

so I would request

you set aside time to groom the tickets and even review questionable ones with the engineering manager if in doubt/refrain from commentary about marriage and allow me to answer those questions/not purchase drugs or ever, ever arrange for a drug dealer to come near my home again.

To continue as you have been behaving is simply unacceptable.

If the individual persists, you then need an actionable plan to address the deviant behavior, which may involve cessation at an extreme, although it is extremely important not to take that step if you havent been very explicit about your expectations multiple times. Set a very clear expectation, define what outcome you want, making sure you understand what you will do if the expectation is not met. Now folks screw up and nobody is perfect, but ENTJs seem to respond exceptionally well to this approach.

Sometimes I suspect due to not having a set of defined, internalized Si expectations, they can adapt brilliantly in the moment, but also totally run over the needs and boundaries of others with almost effusive unawareness and need to be managed back into a place of "good behavior". With my daughter, this has to be explicitly taught...and yet...

She THRIVES upon this treatment. Her counselor at school said "awwww, she is a trama baby and I mean you can only expect so much from them, so dont be too hard on her". Ive never wanted to pull someone through the phone and punch the SHIT out of them in my life. How dare she limit her in such a way. The kiddo makes mistakes, but everytime I challenge her to be more accountable and responsible, to step up, she makes a grimace for a bit, shifts and becomes something better than she was.

Notably it has to be explicit, context specific and well defined and delivered with respect while respecting her rationale for a different approach. I cant say "be a good kid..." because she doesnt understand what the hell that evens means...

So with your partner, rather than giving her space to be a douche and emotionally manipulative, regardless of what the rationale is, BPD, trauma, whatever-I would suggest the alternate answer of "This is what I expect of you and if you cannot comply, this wont work for us and you need to step away until you can step up" . In the end her love/affection has nothing to do with your love/affection-if she cannot love you or meet your expectations, it has nothing to do with your value

PS-I have aspergers so I dunno if this would actually work for others, but it works for my slightly detached approach pretty well.
 

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@artem ...

ENTJs do tend to idealize romantic relationships early in life.

There is also the "arrogance" (as others describe) or overconfidence factor with which one cannot absolutely believe that ALL others do not see them in the same way that they want to be seen or that they see themselves. This tends to take quite a toll on the young ENTJ until early adulthood refocuses them away from a fascination with idolization or idealization of an initial partner/s.

If this borders toward an unhealthy fascination, or self-harm, I would strongly agree with other respondents that therapy may be the way to go. Some cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) to help with self-harm or idolization can also work wonders for young ENTJs.

This kind of romantic fascination with the idealized partner likely stems from an unfulfilled or unstructured social circle with which the ENTJ fails to dominate or control (something the young ENTJ will come to master later).

All-in-all .. a "rotating door" is probably a period which most ENTJs endure until they find their feet in life.
 
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