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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Where to begin...

Well, a while ago I came across a very interesting article regarding numerology. The numerology part was not what caught my attention, but rather a part about love, duality and unity. Most people spend their lives making a career, finding a partner and creating their offspring. This is necessary to make the world develop and keeping humanity alive.

As an INFP emneagram 4, I was caught between the desire to be free and independent, and to be loved, hopelessly and romantically. Watching romantic movies, creating love stories in my head, being among couples, all this causes a four to feel even more lonely, envious and depressed.

This was a while ago, while I was a very unhealthy individual. for the past year only I have developed to be a much more healthy individual. Its hard for me to tell exactly which type I am since I have many different personality traits from different types. After spending much time alone, charging my batteries and avoiding all romantic crap, I realized I no longer thought about romantic love. I was solitary, but I wasn't lonely. I felt free and independent. I realized then, that what I was searching for was unity. Within myself, to be as complete as possible. Without another person, without religion, just by myself.

We spend our whole lives stealing energy from eachother. That is why we fall in love, because our energy corresponds with somebody elses. Two different energies meet and create unity. As these energies develop, they will need other energies to continue on their path to unity, and to get rid of the old one. Some may never find what they are looking for, perhaps they are looking in the wrong place. They feel incomplete and desperately try everything to fill the emptiness within themselves.

I realized almost all of my friends who have or have had relationships tend to hold on to them even though they are unhealthy, or they tend to jump from relationship to relationship. It becomes so obvious that what they need is to search within themselves, but unfortunetly many of them are unable to deal with solitude, which I think is necessary to find your true self.

What the article then said, was that these energies, these relationships are only a help on the way to unity within yourself.

I must admit I enjoyed this idea, as I am a person of solitude and I have chosen to stay there. I have so much love to give to the world instead of spending all my energy on one person. I have never been in love. I love, but I've never been in love. I always manage to rationalize the feelings and then "overcome" nature, and then I go back to solitude. But of course, the world wouldn't exist without reproduction and partnerships.


What do you think of this?
Are you addicted to relationships or other people?
Or are you addicted to solitude and freedom?
Why do you feel that way, what is the reason behind your feelings/choice?



This became rather messy, but thoughts, questions and comments are highly appreciated, from any type!
 

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This is very interesting and really resonates with me. For a while I was addicted to relationships and the idea of true love with another person. Then I realized that I did not need another person to be happy. I realized that my addiction to love from another was actually harming myself by not allowing me to become full within myself. I don't think that we can find true wholeness by being with another person, but I think that if two "whole" people come together in a relationship, it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, many people seeking relationships are not healthy and are looking for validation and fulfillment through a relationship, but if two people can master being fulfilled on their own, they can create even more beauty in their lives. I've moved on from being obsessed with finding love to being obsessed with being solitary to finally being able to accept that a healthy relationship may happen with someone else in which we don't need to depend on one another for happiness. We just need to remember not to let it completely control our lives and our happiness.
 

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I tried loving a girl, but failed miserably. This was back in 2008. I recently found out that I've been in complicated grief and depression since 2006. Now it makes sense when the girl (my ex) asked me how could I have loved her when I don't even love myself?! sigh..
 
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I think at different stages in life, we need different things. Different people, also need different things. Some people may learn most by being solitary, other people may learn most by sharing their life with another person.

You might walk down the solitary road for a long time and once you've got what you need from it, decide that now you need to try walking that road with another person. Maybe you might even realise that you actually prefer being solitary. There's nothing wrong with that and if it's what you want, then you shouldn't feel pressured into finding a relationship.

I think being solitary is great for developing your individuality and expressing yourself without worrying about the needs of another person. With that freedom, you can have lots of experiences that can help you find out who you are. You can also have time to study yourself without being distracted by another person, or being influenced by their perceptions of you.

Being in a relationship is also good because you have to learn to compromise. You have to learn to take another person's needs into consideration. Instead of learning purely about yourself, you can also learn about another person. I think your partner can also help you learn about yourself. It's like they hold up a mirror so that you can see yourself from another perspective. You learn about yourself by learning about how they percieve you.
 

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I'm pretty solitary by nature, though when things turn down I sometimes find I just wish just for a little support, a little help, someone just to lean on sometimes. Maybe that makes me like a child or as someone who needs to learn a little more independence and self-reliance. Maybe that's true, and yet at the same time? If someone where there? I think there's a difference in the kind of dependence I'd form toward them from what amounts to simple emotional dependence, and I'd call it trust. It's ok to accept a little help or support or let another in your life be there for you even while autonomy and self-reliance really truly is important to every one of us. I don't think they necessarily have to conflict. Of course what am I doing not even mentioning that it is just nice sharing things and yourself with another, sharing too in them?

What you say resonates pretty well with me too. I think often to myself that the one thing I really want in all the world is just to know and know very well a peace and completion within myself, integration, effulgence, mercy, and love extending toward all creation.

Your post immediately reminded me of a common Rilke quote. Yes, I know INFP's hate Rilke and I'm sorry, but I share it anyway, "A merging of two people is an impossibility, and where it seems to exist, it is a hemming-in, a mutual consent that robs one party or both parties of their fullest freedom and development. But once the realization is accepted that even between the closest people infinite distances exist, a marvelous living side-by-side can grow up for them, if they succeed in loving the expanse between them, which gives them the possibility of always seeing each other as a whole and before an immense sky."


Also I think? Just good for you. I liked your attitude. :)
 

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Where to begin...

Well, a while ago I came across a very interesting article regarding numerology. The numerology part was not what caught my attention, but rather a part about love, duality and unity. Most people spend their lives making a career, finding a partner and creating their offspring. This is necessary to make the world develop and keeping humanity alive.

As an INFP emneagram 4, I was caught between the desire to be free and independent, and to be loved, hopelessly and romantically. Watching romantic movies, creating love stories in my head, being among couples, all this causes a four to feel even more lonely, envious and depressed.

This was a while ago, while I was a very unhealthy individual. for the past year only I have developed to be a much more healthy individual. Its hard for me to tell exactly which type I am since I have many different personality traits from different types. After spending much time alone, charging my batteries and avoiding all romantic crap, I realized I no longer thought about romantic love. I was solitary, but I wasn't lonely. I felt free and independent. I realized then, that what I was searching for was unity. Within myself, to be as complete as possible. Without another person, without religion, just by myself.

We spend our whole lives stealing energy from eachother. That is why we fall in love, because our energy corresponds with somebody elses. Two different energies meet and create unity. As these energies develop, they will need other energies to continue on their path to unity, and to get rid of the old one. Some may never find what they are looking for, perhaps they are looking in the wrong place. They feel incomplete and desperately try everything to fill the emptiness within themselves.

I realized almost all of my friends who have or have had relationships tend to hold on to them even though they are unhealthy, or they tend to jump from relationship to relationship. It becomes so obvious that what they need is to search within themselves, but unfortunetly many of them are unable to deal with solitude, which I think is necessary to find your true self.

What the article then said, was that these energies, these relationships are only a help on the way to unity within yourself.

I must admit I enjoyed this idea, as I am a person of solitude and I have chosen to stay there. I have so much love to give to the world instead of spending all my energy on one person. I have never been in love. I love, but I've never been in love. I always manage to rationalize the feelings and then "overcome" nature, and then I go back to solitude. But of course, the world wouldn't exist without reproduction and partnerships.


What does other INFPs think of this?
Are you addicted to relationships or other people?
Or are you addicted to solitude and freedom?
Why do you feel that way, what is the reason behind your feelings/choice?



This became rather messy, but thoughts, questions and comments are highly appreciated.
Your 2nd paragraph is my current situation. I am a bit hopelessly romantic, but I've recently taken an interest in freedom. Meaning you are free from all desire to do something, which frees up your life to focus on more important things (anyone seen Fight Club?).
 

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Where to begin...

Well, a while ago I came across a very interesting article regarding numerology. The numerology part was not what caught my attention, but rather a part about love, duality and unity. Most people spend their lives making a career, finding a partner and creating their offspring. This is necessary to make the world develop and keeping humanity alive.

As an INFP emneagram 4, I was caught between the desire to be free and independent, and to be loved, hopelessly and romantically. Watching romantic movies, creating love stories in my head, being among couples, all this causes a four to feel even more lonely, envious and depressed.

This was a while ago, while I was a very unhealthy individual. for the past year only I have developed to be a much more healthy individual. Its hard for me to tell exactly which type I am since I have many different personality traits from different types. After spending much time alone, charging my batteries and avoiding all romantic crap, I realized I no longer thought about romantic love. I was solitary, but I wasn't lonely. I felt free and independent. I realized then, that what I was searching for was unity. Within myself, to be as complete as possible. Without another person, without religion, just by myself.

We spend our whole lives stealing energy from eachother. That is why we fall in love, because our energy corresponds with somebody elses. Two different energies meet and create unity. As these energies develop, they will need other energies to continue on their path to unity, and to get rid of the old one. Some may never find what they are looking for, perhaps they are looking in the wrong place. They feel incomplete and desperately try everything to fill the emptiness within themselves.

I realized almost all of my friends who have or have had relationships tend to hold on to them even though they are unhealthy, or they tend to jump from relationship to relationship. It becomes so obvious that what they need is to search within themselves, but unfortunetly many of them are unable to deal with solitude, which I think is necessary to find your true self.

What the article then said, was that these energies, these relationships are only a help on the way to unity within yourself.

I must admit I enjoyed this idea, as I am a person of solitude and I have chosen to stay there. I have so much love to give to the world instead of spending all my energy on one person. I have never been in love. I love, but I've never been in love. I always manage to rationalize the feelings and then "overcome" nature, and then I go back to solitude. But of course, the world wouldn't exist without reproduction and partnerships.


What does other INFPs think of this?
Are you addicted to relationships or other people?
Or are you addicted to solitude and freedom?
Why do you feel that way, what is the reason behind your feelings/choice?



This became rather messy, but thoughts, questions and comments are highly appreciated.
First of all I know what you mean. Comes back to the old phrases- " Looking for God in all the Wrong places". "Looking for Love in all the Wrong places.

I think what everything is looking for Ultimately is Alignment with Themselves. Their True Selves. Everything people seek, money, relationships, cars, houses, fame and fortune is because they think these things will lead to one thing- HAPPINESS. Now I'm not saying their is anything wrong with pursing money etc. In fact I think it's great to have all this. But what I think people are ultimately seeking is a connection with Themselves. "In the Flow", "In the Zone", "Pure Bliss", "Pure Joy" type of feelings.

Now in terms of relationships. I think the reason relationships are great in the Beginning is because in the honey moon phase both partners are actively giving each other Energy. Now if one (or both) become addicted and dependant on the other for Energy then this co-dependancy will lead to resentment. As ONE person can only give you so much energy. You cannot rely on other people to be your constant source of Energy. You have to find your OWN source of energy and FILL yourself up. The you'll find someone else who is also 'whole' within themselves and form a True relationship.

(For further reading on Energy I'd recommend "The Celestine Prophecy" (by James Redfield) an adventure tale filled with wisdom.
"The Vortex"(and others) by Jerry and Esther Hicks is a great book with some insight about "Seeking", "fulfilment", "Alignment with Self")
 

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Now I think their is nothing wrong with Solitude or Relationships. A lot of people need some solitude to "find themselves". In fact a lot of mystics and sages went off into solitude before they came back o teach others.

I personally believe their is a time and place for both. I enjoy a balance. I enjoy ME time and I enjoy connecting with liked-minded./balanced people as well. In fact one of the best ways to fill up on Energy is to give it. Truly appreciate the beauty of the people you spend time with. Then you'll feel great as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is very interesting and really resonates with me. For a while I was addicted to relationships and the idea of true love with another person. Then I realized that I did not need another person to be happy. I realized that my addiction to love from another was actually harming myself by not allowing me to become full within myself. I don't think that we can find true wholeness by being with another person, but I think that if two "whole" people come together in a relationship, it can be a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, many people seeking relationships are not healthy and are looking for validation and fulfillment through a relationship, but if two people can master being fulfilled on their own, they can create even more beauty in their lives. I've moved on from being obsessed with finding love to being obsessed with being solitary to finally being able to accept that a healthy relationship may happen with someone else in which we don't need to depend on one another for happiness. We just need to remember not to let it completely control our lives and our happiness.
Exactly! I started wondering about it myself, is it possible to find a partner when you have become "whole?" Of course, it will only be better then. As you said, two healthy individuals of any type can create a beautiful partnership. The most important thing is to not tie your happiness to objects or people, as someone once said. Happy to know I'm not the only one :proud:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I tried loving a girl, but failed miserably. This was back in 2008. I recently found out that I've been in complicated grief and depression since 2006. Now it makes sense when the girl (my ex) asked me how could I have loved her when I don't even love myself?! sigh..
Well, you can't try to love; you just do, I believe. Its time to spoil yourself, do whatever you want and start being comfortable with who you are! You will never find love and happiness if you're not happy with yourself. The road to happiness is you, and you only.
 

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Personally I know I need both. I would put primary importance on solitude because this in my opinion is the primary means to become whole as a person. You gotta come to terms with yourself first, get "whole" as in healthy, develop a love and appreciation for yourself. So it's good to stay single because the independence can help you unfold. I see how this has taken place over the last years in my life. I can honestly say I love myself the way I am, even my weaknesses I find kinda "cute" (that sounds cheesier than I intended... :frustrating: but I hope you get the point). I could probably even stay single for the rest of my life although I don't want to be.

And that's where we get to the second part. INFPs are often romantics, I definitely am (the intense, hopeless kind). And over the years there has also grown a desire within me to give love. I really have a desire to share the love, emotions, passion and intimacy that I cultivate within my heart. It's not so much that I feel like I need someone to be complete, but that I really want an output for the good emotions that accumulate within me. It's not so much that I want to get my cheek stroked, but I want to stroke hers, not so much being told "I love you" than being able to whisper it in her ear, not so much having a shoulder to rest my head upon on a tough day but being there for her when she needs mine (of course I do like both sides).

It's nice being whole by yourself (not that I am there yet) but within me there is also desire to express it, to give it away. And that has a depth to it that can only really be expressed and lived out in an intimate relationship, a depth that cannot fully be satisfied by redirecting it towards friends or family members.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Personally I know I need both. I would put primary importance on solitude because this in my opinion is the primary means to become whole as a person. You gotta come to terms with yourself first, get "whole" as in healthy, develop a love and appreciation for yourself. So it's good to stay single because the independence can help you unfold. I see how this has taken place over the last years in my life. I can honestly say I love myself the way I am, even my weaknesses I find kinda "cute" (that sounds cheesier than I intended... :frustrating: but I hope you get the point). I could probably even stay single for the rest of my life although I don't want to be.

And that's where we get to the second part. INFPs are often romantics, I definitely am (the intense, hopeless kind). And over the years there has also grown a desire within me to give love. I really have a desire to share the love, emotions, passion and intimacy that I cultivate within my heart. It's not so much that I feel like I need someone to be complete, but that I really want an output for the good emotions that accumulate within me. It's not so much that I want to get my cheek stroked, but I want to stroke hers, not so much being told "I love you" than being able to whisper it in her ear, not so much having a shoulder to rest my head upon on a tough day but being there for her when she needs mine (of course I do like both sides).

It's nice being whole by yourself (not that I am there yet) but within me there is also desire to express it, to give it away. And that has a depth to it that can only really be expressed and lived out in an intimate relationship, a depth that cannot fully be satisfied by redirecting it towards friends or family members.
I really agree with this one. As I've developed to become healthier, I've gone from "please love me" to "let me love you!" Its not so important for me to get it in return, because I always have myself and simply the love for myself. I always longed for understanding but I know that if I let them, anyone can understand. Its only about me letting someone in. Usually, at least. So, having someone by your side would be nice. Not someone to dedicate your life to, just a little help and support along the way and that you could be the same in return.
 

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Well, I think you should rethink what your goals are. Are you trying to be a nun? Because solitude and the overcoming of nature is what religious people do in order to comprehend God. If that is not the case, you are denying your natural desire to fullfil your sexual needs. Perhaps because of fear. Union can be found within yourself, but not anytime-anywhere. It takes time and experience, experiences are out-there, not in-there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, I think you should rethink what your goals are. Are you trying to be a nun? Because solitude and the overcoming of nature is what religious people do in order to comprehend God. If that is not the case, you are denying your natural desire to fullfil your sexual needs. Perhaps because of fear. Union can be found within yourself, but not anytime-anywhere. It takes time and experience, experiences are out-there, not in-there.
I'm definetly not religious, and I still get to fulfill my sexual needs, believe me. You don't have to choose, its 2013! The only question is whether I choose to take someone into my life, which I don't desire right now. I'm pretty sure I will later in life, but right now it feels good to be alone. I don't have to compromise my freedom. Honestly I've never felt better. There is a time for everything. Right now my goal see and experience the world, so I can learn more and find ways to change. That has always been my goal. I want to give love to the world, I want to change it in my way. So I have to begin somewhere, and I begin with myself.
 

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I have contemplated this many times in my life. The only conclusion I seem to have had is that it requires a healthy mix of both to work properly.

I have an interesting analogy that I developed, which borrows from the glass is half empty and glass is half full perspective.

Think of the glass as your being and the water as your life. The water contains all the good, the bad, the troubles, the sadness, the happiness everything you have lived and experienced. Within this glass is your life energy essentially.

Now a person who is comfortable with their own solitude and accepts the good with the bad yet still carry's on with their lives will have a very clean and pure water. Not because it is clean and pure but because they choose to make it so by accepting the bad but working on the good.

A person who is not so comfortable with their solitude has a very dark and dispassionate water within their glass. They seek out people to pour their water into and gain the water of that other person. Now when this unhealthy person meets a more healthier person initially the relationship works out. Usually because the healthier individual is more than willing to share his/her water with the other person. But over time due to this sharing the more pure water is slowly corrupted by the more darker one because not only is this person giving it up but they are also not working to maintain their own as pure because of the burden of handling the impure.

In the meantime the other person is not working on their own happiness and continues to borrow from the other person until such time where either they collectively end up corrupting each other or they break apart.

Now for the duality to work, essentially both glasses need to have a clean and pure water, irrespective of past experiences, troubles and pains both persons must be able and willing to work on them alone and by themselves. The key here is to have someone who is willing and able to pour their water into the other persons glass and for that person to do the same when at a difficult situation in life. If both are in a difficult situation together they must collectively be able to work on it together to the benefit of both.

Ideally the theory might seem good but reality is quite harsh. There are so many overriding factors whether it be environment, social, beliefs or the simple fact that the pain someone has suffered in life is overwhelming and they are unable to bear it on their own. That being said it is still up to the person to make the decision of wanting to change for the better and working towards it or waiting to be changed for the better. One has to think which will be more beneficial to oneself in the long term.

wanting or waiting?
 
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