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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.

So, out of those, what do you want to choose? I would obviously choose the ENTJ one over the Fi dom one, obviously, nobody does want to associate themselves as someone who is oversensitive and melancholic. The issue is how Fi's actual qualities seem invisible and intangible, and are easily overshadowed by It's negative qualities, meanwhile Te qualities are visible in all It's glory and It's negative sides seem insignificant in comparison.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.

Many said that people will find their inferior function to be ashamed of it because It's their weakness, but I havent seen a single ENTJ, or ENTP, or ESTP being ashamed of their inferior function, and many of them still eitherway express how dealing with inferior Te person in their lives is the worst.
 
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The person making multiple insecure or negative posts about Fi doms would be yourself.
 

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It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.

So, out of those, what do you want to choose? I would obviously choose the ENTJ one over the Fi dom one, obviously, nobody does want to associate themselves as someone who is oversensitive and melancholic. The issue is how Fi's actual qualities seem invisible and intangible, and are easily overshadowed by It's negative qualities, meanwhile Te qualities are visible in all It's glory and It's negative sides seem insignificant in comparison.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.

Many said that people will find their inferior function to be ashamed of it because It's their weakness, but I haven't seen a single ENTJ, or ENTP, or ESTP being ashamed of their inferior function, and many of them still either way express how dealing with inferior Te person in their lives is the worst.
It is a fact that in order to attract people to yourself, you must outwardly project your most positive qualities.

If you are one of the introverted types, you can do this on an individual, one-on-one basis. You also depend heavily on your circumstances. That is, you need to be out and about in school or in a job where you can potentially interact with various types of people. (Situations that force you to be more extraverted) As an introvert, you go with the flow and take people as they come.

People who cut themselves off from social interaction tend to project more negative qualities. The reason is that as long as you're socially interacting there is always a sense of hope and hope overcomes negativity.

Extraverts are generally better at socializing because they don't invest themselves so heavily in each interaction. They give it just enough of their attention and then move on to the next thing.

The 4-letter, MBTI personality typing is just a snapshot of a person's preferred way of functioning. It doesn't dictate how attractive you are. How attractive people are to others is a separate aspect of their personality.

I (as an INFP) have found that knowing extraverts early in life helped me as an introvert to be able to extravert when necessary throughout my life due to having role models and practicing their techniques.
 

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It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.

So, out of those, what do you want to choose? I would obviously choose the ENTJ one over the Fi dom one, obviously, nobody does want to associate themselves as someone who is oversensitive and melancholic. The issue is how Fi's actual qualities seem invisible and intangible, and are easily overshadowed by It's negative qualities, meanwhile Te qualities are visible in all It's glory and It's negative sides seem insignificant in comparison.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.

Many said that people will find their inferior function to be ashamed of it because It's their weakness, but I havent seen a single ENTJ, or ENTP, or ESTP being ashamed of their inferior function, and many of them still eitherway express how dealing with inferior Te person in their lives is the worst.
Strength in character doesn't come in denying the efficacy of one of your functions. Strength comes from accepting and adapting with the changes, even if they are uncomfortable. Te can't exist without Fi, why is that do you think? and why is someone who is cognitively healthy, able to utilise both of these functions when called for?

You are trying to justify your insecurities by debasing a personality theory that's been constructed by the combined efforts of geniuses we'll never be. Can't you see these labels of 'cool'; 'hot' or 'new' are all meaningless! What matters in the end is how we feel about the world around us and what makes sense to us. I hope you are able to overcome your doubt like i'm trying to do, you don't have to be a slave to your own doubts forever, Charus!
 

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Why do people come here to criticize MBTI? If you don't agree with it, why not just ignore it and get on with your life?
He wants people to change their opinions about MBTI. I do too. So I can understand him from that perspective. It is why I keep coming back after quitting like 8000 times because I have some new insight to share that I (foolishly) think people will be interested in. It's a vicious cycle really.
 

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He wants people to change their opinions about MBTI. I do too. So I can understand him from that perspective. It is why I keep coming back after quitting like 8000 times because I have some new insight to share that I (foolishly) think people will be interested in. It's a vicious cycle really.
Ah vicious cycles with social media.
I too had a new insight yesterday on some server in the jungle out there.
Of course the people giving me the insight was unable to expand the scope beyond their silo,
so I thought of Perc...
but I guess you are right, no one really cares but me, this is yet another silo come to think of it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's trully sad that people prefer to remain ignorant of the issue. It does not matter how much you gaslight others into believing that this is not the issue, the issue will still remain, and that is a fact. Tell me, how it is fair when certain types simply are 'Bigger, better, faster, stronger' in almost every aspect?
 

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So, out of those, what do you want to choose?
Fortunately it isn't a matter of choice - by the current theory, cognitive functions describe one's cognition, which is inborn.
I know many have already told you this, but why focus on what you lack instead of making the best use of what you are dealt with? You cannot change it either way.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others
That depends on the individual's outlook. If someone values industriousness, certain types will seem cool. If someone values sensitivity, different types will seem cool. I'll commit heresy and say that for this sensitivity-valuing person the most powerful types will be Fi-doms.
Can't you see? The way one interprets a theory is up to the individual. "Coolness" is entirely subjective. I'll go further and say that there is no intrinsic value judgment in the theory, considering it merely lists neutral traits when discussing the types. That judgment will be cast by the consumer.
 

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It's trully sad that people prefer to remain ignorant of the issue. It does not matter how much you gaslight others into believing that this is not the issue, the issue will still remain, and that is a fact. Tell me, how it is fair when certain types simply are 'Bigger, better, faster, stronger' in almost every aspect?
Life isn't exactly fair now is it?
I mean wealth moves upwards to the 1%, some people get born into wealth while others are born into abject poverty.

The point of MBTI is to twist Jung into a socially acceptable theory from a somewhat behaviorist point of view.
Meaning that all qualities that are subjective and hidden, must take on a decidedly negative quality.
All the obvious and objective extroversion on the other hand will take the front seat as something to be admired.
So yeah the root is the theory, only in Jungian or Socionics theory do you get a somewhat fair representation of the types.

In the end, who cares, if the NPCs of the world want to live in ignorance, then that is their problem at the end of the day.
Cause we in the know can leverage this to our advantage if we wish, or we can fight a losing battle against the tide of ignorance.

To me your ideal of fairness is like the white house in this clip, it newer had a chance.

 

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You could erase MBTI out of existence and nothing would change about this, you'd still have types of people who would be seen as having "cooler" or more "powerful" personalities and traits than others.
If you want to seem cooler and more powerful, learn to accept yourself even if you're not one of these sorts of people. It's cool to chart your own path.
 

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The point of MBTI is to twist Jung into a socially acceptable theory from a somewhat behaviorist point of view.
Meaning that all qualities that are subjective and hidden, must take on a decidedly negative quality.
All the obvious and objective extroversion on the other hand will take the front seat as something to be admired.
So yeah the root is the theory, only in Jungian or Socionics theory do you get a somewhat fair representation of the types.
I like your take on this.
 
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Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.
What are the writer's motivations, and things happening behind the scenes affecting them when writing something, or choosing the words to describe something?
What are the reader's motivations, and things happening behind the scenes affecting them when interpreting said words?

If I know that I can be oversensitive and melancholic, then these descriptions wouldn't affect me at all. It's just a matter of fact, I have those sides to me, but being like that won't stop me from being many other things as well. Such as being organized, pragmatic, assertive, working hard, even being rude and blunt when needed. I can develop all kinds of skills that can help me accomplish whatever I want.

If these descriptions don't match with who I know I am, then they won't affect me either. I am what I am. People close to me know that, and others don't matter. There are people who judge me negatively without bothering to even talk to me, or figuring out what anything I say or do actually means. Their loss. I already know I can't please everybody, same as not everbody pleases me. That's life.
 

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It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.

So, out of those, what do you want to choose? I would obviously choose the ENTJ one over the Fi dom one, obviously, nobody does want to associate themselves as someone who is oversensitive and melancholic. The issue is how Fi's actual qualities seem invisible and intangible, and are easily overshadowed by It's negative qualities, meanwhile Te qualities are visible in all It's glory and It's negative sides seem insignificant in comparison.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.

Many said that people will find their inferior function to be ashamed of it because It's their weakness, but I havent seen a single ENTJ, or ENTP, or ESTP being ashamed of their inferior function, and many of them still eitherway express how dealing with inferior Te person in their lives is the worst.
I don't think the OP understands how the Feeling function works. The Feeling function is actually a very powerful function: It's a leadership function.

To split it up into Fe-Dom vs Fi-Dom:
--Fe Dom is about leadership by consensus.
--Fi Dom is about leadership by morals and values structured into hierarchies and authority.

The main trouble with the Feeling function is that it's about COMMUNITY leadership. It's about HOW PEOPLE RELATE TO EACH OTHER via morals and ethics and all that. And those talents don't usually develop until later in life.

To put it another way: Most Feelers who are into personality typing are young people. And younger adults are usually poor leaders because they are still trying to develop their social and community skills and find their place in society. So most young Feelers in the typology community are still at an "immature" level of Feeling. And the typology descriptions tend to reflect this "immature" level of young Feelers.

Again, to split it up into Fe-Dom vs Fi-Dom:
--Young "immature" Fe-Doms can appear as either people-pleasers or bullies.
--And young "immature" Fi-Doms can appear as either over-sensitive moralists or chilly, aloof, self-involved narcissists.

But once Feelers get older and solidify their position in society, then a more "mature" level of Feeling comes to the forefront. The Fe-Doms and the Fi-Doms get better at asserting themselves and their values. Fe-Doms become natural leaders by virtue of their natural extraversion skills; several US presidents have supposedly been Fe-Doms. And Fi-Doms, with their natural skills in community ethics, morals, hierarchy, structure, etc., become leaders in a broad range fields from psychology to bureaucracy to law, etc.

I myself was a troop handler (Sergeant) in the US Marines for several years, and then went on to become a mid-level executive in a big international bureaucracy. And a friend of mine once met a previous US Commandant of the Marine Corps (the highest rank in the Marine Corps) and found that he was an INFP.

Admittedly, Fi-Doms in particular face some unique difficulties. Feeling is all about COMMUNITY: It's about HOW PEOPLE RELATE TO EACH OTHER via morals and ethics and all that. For Fi-Doms in particular, that's kind of a contradiction in terms: Fi-Doms are introverts with natural skills in COMMUNITY leadership. In other words, if Fi-Doms want to eventually see their natural skills bear fruit, they have to bite the bullet and learn some social skills. Otherwise, if they remain aloof and isolated and go to extremes of introversion, they'll always remain at an "immature" level of Feeling.

By the way, if you want evidence of the natural leadership skills of Feelers, just look at the OP message. In the OP message @Charus is taking a COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP stance by asserting a position of moral judgment over the typology community. The OP is doing this in a rather "immature" Fi-Dom way, that is, by standing apart (Fi-Dom aloofness) and bullying and berating the community. But as the OP grows older and gets more experience of life and learns how to assert himself more effectively, he'll likely begin to gain some genuine leadership skills.

My advice: The OP should look ahead and start reading up on leadership and management skills, and maybe work on his Fe skills a bit. Start getting some experience in people-handling positions in the working world. With more self-confidence and better people-handling skills, he'll eventually blossom into a good leader of one sort or another.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't think the OP understands how the Feeling function works. The Feeling function is actually a very powerful function: It's a leadership function.

To split it up into Fe-Dom vs Fi-Dom:
--Fe Dom is about leadership by consensus.
--Fi Dom is about leadership by morals and values structured into hierarchies and authority.

The main trouble with the Feeling function is that it's about COMMUNITY leadership. It's about HOW PEOPLE RELATE TO EACH OTHER via morals and ethics and all that. And those talents don't usually develop until later in life.

To put it another way: Most Feelers who are into personality typing are young people. And younger adults are usually poor leaders because they are still trying to develop their social and community skills and find their place in society. So most young Feelers in the typology community are still at an "immature" level of Feeling. And the typology descriptions tend to reflect this "immature" level of young Feelers.

Again, to split it up into Fe-Dom vs Fi-Dom:
--Young "immature" Fe-Doms can appear as either people-pleasers or bullies.
--And young "immature" Fi-Doms can appear as either over-sensitive moralists or chilly, aloof, self-involved narcissists.

But once Feelers get older and solidify their position in society, then a more "mature" level of Feeling comes to the forefront. The Fe-Doms and the Fi-Doms get better at asserting themselves and their values. Fe-Doms become natural leaders by virtue of their natural extraversion skills; several US presidents have supposedly been Fe-Doms. And Fi-Doms, with their natural skills in community ethics, morals, hierarchy, structure, etc., become leaders in a broad range fields from psychology to bureaucracy to law, etc.

I myself was a troop handler (Sergeant) in the US Marines for several years, and then went on to become a mid-level executive in a big international bureaucracy. And a friend of mine once met a previous US Commandant of the Marine Corps (the highest rank in the Marine Corps) and found that he was an INFP.

Admittedly, Fi-Doms in particular face some unique difficulties. Feeling is all about COMMUNITY: It's about HOW PEOPLE RELATE TO EACH OTHER via morals and ethics and all that. For Fi-Doms in particular, that's kind of a contradiction in terms: Fi-Doms are introverts with natural skills in COMMUNITY leadership. In other words, if Fi-Doms want to eventually see their natural skills bear fruit, they have to bite the bullet and learn some social skills. Otherwise, if they remain aloof and isolated and go to extremes of introversion, they'll always remain at an "immature" level of Feeling.

By the way, if you want evidence of the natural leadership skills of Feelers, just look at the OP message. In the OP message @Charus is taking a COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP stance by asserting a position of moral judgment over the typology community. The OP is doing this in a rather "immature" Fi-Dom way, that is, by standing apart (Fi-Dom aloofness) and bullying and berating the community. But as the OP grows older and gets more experience of life and learns how to assert himself more effectively, he'll likely begin to gain some genuine leadership skills.

My advice: The OP should look ahead and start reading up on leadership and management skills, and maybe work on his Fe skills a bit. Start getting some experience in people-handling positions in the working world. With more self-confidence and better people-handling skills, he'll eventually blossom into a good leader of one sort or another.

Just my opinion, of course.
You missed one tiny little detail here.

I am an INTJ, Not Fi dom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Then quit whining and bitching about the Typology community like a weepy little "immature" Fi-Dom. :)
You missed another important detail.

INTJ's also USE Fi, in a pretty strong fashion almost as Fi doms.

INTJ's still have Fi, if you knew that, and It's pretty common for an INTJ to fall into an unhealthy Ni-Fi loop (I admit I am far from the healthiest people you'd find), and experience moralistic, black-white attitude because of issues such as being in an enviroment that didnt allow them to develop their Te to a healthy level, here I can provide source for what I am talking about:

Btw, You should look at your own post right now, you are the prime example of unhealthy Fi dom you've mentioned when your response sound exactly as the aloof, chilly, condescending little Fi dom you've mentioned. I'm not berating nor bully anyone here, I am using my Te-Fi to bring in change to the theory by pointing out It's obvious flaws and issues, you on the other hand projecting your own issues onto me.
 

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You missed another important detail.

INTJ's also USE Fi, in a pretty strong fashion almost as Fi doms.

INTJ's still have Fi, if you knew that, and It's pretty common for an INTJ to fall into an unhealthy Ni-Fi loop (I admit I am far from the healthiest people you'd find), and experience moralistic, black-white attitude because of issues such as being in an enviroment that didnt allow them to develop their Te to a healthy level, here I can provide source for what I am talking about:

Btw, You should look at your own post right now, you are the prime example of unhealthy Fi dom you've mentioned when your response sound exactly as the aloof, chilly, condescending little Fi dom you've mentioned. I'm not berating nor bully anyone here, I am using my Te-Fi to bring in change to the theory by pointing out It's obvious flaws and issues, you on the other hand projecting your own issues onto me.
Across the last year or two I've seen you start up a couple dozen of these same threads whining and weeping and bitching about how unfairly Fi-Doms are portrayed in the Typology community. You regularly start up these threads both here and at TypoC. And most of the time across the last couple years you either claimed to be an ISFP (that is, an Fi-Dom) or admitted that you had no clue what your personality type was. But one thing remained the same throughout: You constantly whined and wept and bitched about those silly Fi-Dom descriptions.

Well now you've suddenly decided that you're an INTJ. Fine, whatever. But nothing has changed. You're still whining and weeping and bitching about the Fi-Dom descriptions.

So whatever. Either way, my message to you remains the same. Fi-Dom is a strong function with lots of potential when the person grows up and becomes a proper adult. And I'm an Fi-Dom.

So keep on whining and bitching and weeping, whatever your type. But it just shows that you don't have the slightest clue about how Fi-Dom actually works.
 

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By the way, if you want evidence of the natural leadership skills of Feelers, just look at the OP message. In the OP message @Charus is taking a COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP stance by asserting a position of moral judgment over the typology community. The OP is doing this in a rather "immature" Fi-Dom way, that is, by standing apart (Fi-Dom aloofness) and bullying and berating the community. But as the OP grows older and gets more experience of life and learns how to assert himself more effectively, he'll likely begin to gain some genuine leadership skills.
This is a really good point. Sorry if I'm making assumptions, but everytime Charus creates this kind of thread, he always gather a lot of attention. And while most people have criticised him, they end up visiting his threads anyways. I would say that this is a form of unpolished charisma.

And again, sorry if I'm making wild assumptions, but most people here don't really disagree with Charus' views. They disagree with his attitude towards his views. That person includes myself. Dare I say, most likely it's because what Charus says really does resonate with all of us, and we feel that it is indeed a valid point.

We can't deny that society tend to obsess over a single, supposedly superior archetype. Not just in personality typing, but in almost any kinds of setting.

Some cultures obsess over pale skin, and they deem people with pale skin to be superior, and would go through all lengths to avoid the sun. Some cultures believe that people with specific profession have higher status than the rest. Some culture have beauty standards where if you have these specific eye shapes (phoenix, dragon, tiger, duke, etc), then you're automatically good looking even when you've lost all your teeth and have grown a massive pimple on your nose. Some culture believe that people born on a certain year are the "superior, dominant" people, destined to be a "leader". How ridiculous could we get?

In Harari's book Deus, he mentioned about data religion, which implies that collectively, humankind is basically a perfection-seeking organism, where each of its cell obsess over what's the "best" and being the "best", even when it means we stop being human. And it couldn't be further from the truth. Everywhere I go, I see people coming up with tier lists. I'm afraid that at this point, we should just come up with the "superior" dish and have a diet that consists solely of that dish. Every single other dishes ever invented are inferior and it's blasphemy to even think of eating them.

I believe that if one day, hypothetically speaking, robots really do end up replacing humans, it's due to our own faulty views. If we insist on behaving like we're running optimization algorithm all the time, then of course we can find someone who's better than us in doing that: robots and AI.

And to reply to the thread title, the root cause is not the theory itself. The root cause is, unfortunately, humans.
 
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