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if most people looked into Enneagram, the sexual instinct would probably be the one most people would want to be, but honestly? I feel like it is kind of made fun of, stigmatized, viewed as "awkward" or even shunned in American culture.
- if two people show each other any kind of affection or experience real intimacy, people automatically assume they're dating and everyone makes a fuss about it and immediately starts gossiping
- if two members of the same sex have a strong bond, people seem to assume they're homosexual or bi
- displays of sexual energy or even talking about sexual topics in most social settings is considered "awkward"
- women who like to be sexy and graceful are viewed as "fast" or even "whores"
- men who are more sensual are viewed either as a) effeminate and probably gay or b) a misogynistic, chest thumping bastard (depending on the style of sexuality displayed. they might assume the former for an INFP 9w1 and the latter for an ESTP 7w8)
- people freak out at the very thought of nudity. I'm not saying everyone should want to see everyone naked, but why is it even a big deal if you accidently see someone's butt?
- people tend to think passionate, intense relationships are "moving too fast". my thoughts are, if a relationship is heating up quickly, that's a good thing. it means you will have a meaningful relationship and a hot sex life sooner.
- sexual roles are so...ritualized. it seems like most sexual things in today's culture is extremely premeditated, artificial and lack spontaneity.

thoughts?
 

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Not sold on the heating up quickly part but otherwise this post is pretty spot on. Passionate and intense relationships can be a good thing, but not always. It really depends a lot on who's with who, what they bring to the relationship, and how they respond to their lover's wants or needs.
 

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Yeah I don't think it's fun to be a sexual instinct person at all. You are always looking outside of yourself to find purpose or meaning and you can never stay content with what just is. You are constantly searching for depth and true immersion while most are content with simply the surface of the relationship. You end up simply having aquaintences when all that you desire are true blood friends you would do anything for and who would do anything for you. The constant yearning and unsatisfaction in relationships is a true killer. You are always the one pushing for more and you don't want to be clingy but the truth is the other doesn't desire what you do at the same level. It's so hard to find the truth in the superficial and you can't say anything about it because it's as if you are talking about unicorns or something that doesn't exist to those around you. It's often dramatized maybe even idealized but I often think that it's not truly valued in a lot of ways. The no living in mediums and only living in extremes thing is quite polarizing to many and it seems a lot of times no one truly understands or get that it's not just a craving or a phase. For you it's breathing,it's truth, it's life. The disappointment never dulls and the elation never stops burning. It's standing on the edge waiting, yearning for life to begin.
 

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You probably won't believe it, but I agree with you on a lot of those things.

It's weird how American culture advertises and glorifies sex (sex sells lol) but then condemns it at the same time, making it 'taboo' and thusly a topic of fascination rather than an otherwise normal act. o_O

It also can get very awkward having that variant tho...especially when one is a demisexual like me which sometimes results in friendship and love being blurred. I stay loyal to my partner, but there are people who wonder regardless which just drives me bonkers.
 

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Yeah I don't think it's fun to be a sexual instinct person at all.
I don't think so either. It's like you are admitting to an addiction, yet find solace that there are others like you. But even yet, you must strive to not be totally like you.

We are creepers of this earth. We exist to find connection. I feel like my lover has finally put the needle under my arm in order to give me connection and and intensity. *slow boom*

Finding others of this variant means it's okay
 

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Yeah I don't think it's fun to be a sexual instinct person at all. You are always looking outside of yourself to find purpose or meaning and you can never stay content with what just is. You are constantly searching for depth and true immersion while most are content with simply the surface of the relationship. You end up simply having aquaintences when all that you desire are true blood friends you would do anything for and who would do anything for you. The constant yearning and unsatisfaction in relationships is a true killer. You are always the one pushing for more and you don't want to be clingy but the truth is the other doesn't desire what you do at the same level. It's so hard to find the truth in the superficial and you can't say anything about it because it's as if you are talking about unicorns or something that doesn't exist to those around you. It's often dramatized maybe even idealized but I often think that it's not truly valued in a lot of ways. The no living in mediums and only living in extremes thing is quite polarizing to many and it seems a lot of times no one truly understands or get that it's not just a craving or a phase. For you it's breathing,it's truth, it's life. The disappointment never dulls and the elation never stops burning. It's standing on the edge waiting, yearning for life to begin.
I relate so much with this post it's like you stared into my soul. It's scary. °_°
 

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Yeah I don't think it's fun to be a sexual instinct person at all. You are always looking outside of yourself to find purpose or meaning and you can never stay content with what just is. You are constantly searching for depth and true immersion while most are content with simply the surface of the relationship. You end up simply having aquaintences when all that you desire are true blood friends you would do anything for and who would do anything for you. The constant yearning and unsatisfaction in relationships is a true killer. You are always the one pushing for more and you don't want to be clingy but the truth is the other doesn't desire what you do at the same level. It's so hard to find the truth in the superficial and you can't say anything about it because it's as if you are talking about unicorns or something that doesn't exist to those around you. It's often dramatized maybe even idealized but I often think that it's not truly valued in a lot of ways. The no living in mediums and only living in extremes thing is quite polarizing to many and it seems a lot of times no one truly understands or get that it's not just a craving or a phase. For you it's breathing,it's truth, it's life. The disappointment never dulls and the elation never stops burning. It's standing on the edge waiting, yearning for life to begin.
I'm not sure how to respond here, but I'll give it my best shot, first of all I come from a vegetarian meat minimalist background, so if people think the horrors, relax breathe?

I think this post reeks of arrogance, it's a lot like saying vegetarianism is environmentalism. To be an environmentalist is to be a moral person, therefore only vegetarians are moral people. And then one puts on 'we mean vegans.' The fact that the rest of the world can't be moral people escapes them entirely. How does one define superficial? I could easy say a type 4 needs to have alcohol to release their superego and relax and have their inhibitions run wild. There's a feeling of uptight and wound, that follows the 4, 'don't do that' 'don't do this?' Introverted people can be such bores. Can there be other people from other types that have values , who don't personalize right and wrong? I would hope so I'd like to think of myself as more substance. I just carry it differently that the type 4.
 

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I think this post reeks of arrogance, it's a lot like saying 4.
I dont know what you are trying to tell me. I never said that another enneagram type couldn't feel what I was feeling. I am also almost certain I said nothing about type 4 in my post. I was simply referencing my experience as a sexual first subtype and how it feels first and foremost for myself. I don't understand what you are upset about. There was no expression of superiority or referencing of right and wrong in my post. Where did I say other types don't have values?
 

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Yeah I don't think it's fun to be a sexual instinct person at all. You are always looking outside of yourself to find purpose or meaning and you can never stay content with what just is. You are constantly searching for depth and true immersion while most are content with simply the surface of the relationship. You end up simply having aquaintences when all that you desire are true blood friends you would do anything for and who would do anything for you. The constant yearning and unsatisfaction in relationships is a true killer. You are always the one pushing for more and you don't want to be clingy but the truth is the other doesn't desire what you do at the same level. It's so hard to find the truth in the superficial and you can't say anything about it because it's as if you are talking about unicorns or something that doesn't exist to those around you. It's often dramatized maybe even idealized but I often think that it's not truly valued in a lot of ways. The no living in mediums and only living in extremes thing is quite polarizing to many and it seems a lot of times no one truly understands or get that it's not just a craving or a phase. For you it's breathing,it's truth, it's life. The disappointment never dulls and the elation never stops burning. It's standing on the edge waiting, yearning for life to begin.
I can relate to some of this, being an sp/sx, but not all of it. I think that last sentence is really spot on — I feel like that pretty often, especially when my sp comforts are all met and things are going well... and yet I lack that connection, and it drives me fucking crazy.


I'm not sure how to respond here, but I'll give it my best shot, first of all I come from a vegetarian meat minimalist background, so if people think the horrors, relax breathe?

I think this post reeks of arrogance, it's a lot like saying vegetarianism is environmentalism. To be an environmentalist is to be a moral person, therefore only vegetarians are moral people. And then one puts on 'we mean vegans.' The fact that the rest of the world can't be moral people escapes them entirely. How does one define superficial? I could easy say a type 4 needs to have alcohol to release their superego and relax and have their inhibitions run wild. There's a feeling of uptight and wound, that follows the 4, 'don't do that' 'don't do this?' Introverted people can be such bores. Can there be other people from other types that have values , who don't personalize right and wrong? I would hope so I'd like to think of myself as more substance. I just carry it differently that the type 4.
You realize we're talking about instinctual subtypes right? That means that it transcends the types, because the subtypes exist in each type, for each wing. Your comment is moot. =\
 

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To be honest, I wouldn't trade the dominant SX for anything else.

The first step to really understanding yourself is to accept that you can fall prey to your own devices.

Instead of fighting your urges, accept them and know the pitfalls. Frankly most of American society can f*ck itself, there is so much wrong in this world that sometimes I wish people understood how out of touch with reality they really are.

We're most in touch with our weaknesses and we're also the ones who can push ourselves the hardest to overcome these weaknesses. Most people in this world aren't and are content with where they fall. Frankly I am not and want to continue bettering myself for better or for worse.

First thing to accept is, I will never be satisfied in my search for answers and the best part of it is the more I learn the more I don't know. I've accepted that the process of finding peace brings me peace and I'll never be able to satiate that drive.

SX/SP: Most conflicted bah humbug, I find peace in being conflicted and frankly I will build a mountain of things I am 100% sure of up until the day that I die ultimately making me stronger and more resilient in the process.
 

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I dont know what you are trying to tell me. I never said that another enneagram type couldn't feel what I was feeling. I am also almost certain I said nothing about type 4 in my post. I was simply referencing my experience as a sexual first subtype and how it feels first and foremost for myself. I don't understand what you are upset about. There was no expression of superiority or referencing of right and wrong in my post. Where did I say other types don't have values?

I've got to get to work, but I also said 'I'm not sure how to respond here' so I'm already proceeding with caution. And I'm not sure how to reply here, but it's good that you're clarifying what you meant,because I didn't know.
 

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It's weird how American culture advertises and glorifies sex (sex sells lol) but then condemns it at the same time, making it 'taboo' and thusly a topic of fascination rather than an otherwise normal act. o_O
I find this rather funny/ironic too. But it's one more hypocrisy I've had to accept the existence of.

Of course, I'm not sure if it's right to call sex an 'otherwise normal' act. What about the asexual community? Do they have to be considered abnormal because they don't have a sex drive? I accept the act itself as natural, but why is 'natural' always better? Just like anything artificial, there's always a risk of an unhealthy addiction. In the same vein, there's always a risk of losing most of your self-control when you see something/someone you crave. Is it right to accept an addiction, or is it better to get it under control?

Personally, I defend people's right to have an addiction by defending real liberty. Does that mean I think they should have one? Not really, but I can't bring myself to stop others before they do end up with one. It's their choice in the end, and I think everyone should have that choice. So there's my internal 'hypocrisy' - believing people should avoid addictions, yet also believing they can do whatever they want. :confused:
 

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So there's my internal 'hypocrisy' - believing people should avoid addictions, yet also believing they can do whatever they want. :confused:
It just looks like one belief overrides the other in strength - "should" is weaker than "can", making freedom the more foundational belief in your set. That is not automatically hypocritical, as the two do not directly conflict - supporting someone's right to have an addiction does not force them into one.

With some of the sexual stuff, you have something more akin to doublethink, sex accepted (of necessity! how else does our species continue?) but disdained for its nature at the same time. I've often wondered how many people experience cognitive dissonance on this front because of the influence of others' thinking and opinions.
 

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With some of the sexual stuff, you have something more akin to doublethink, sex accepted (of necessity! how else does our species continue?) but disdained for its nature at the same time. I've often wondered how many people experience cognitive dissonance on this front because of the influence of others' thinking and opinions.
That would suggest groupthink more than doublethink, wouldn't you think?

I don't have any disdain for it, but I don't have a passion for it either. The near lack of a sex drive makes it so I'm more naturally capable of not giving a damn. I see flaws just about everywhere, but I also tend to see the beauty in a lot of things. Nature is just as flawed as the artificial, human-made things. People claiming nature is better are sorely ignorant of it's flaws (or too accepting of them), just as people claiming the artificial is better are equally short-sighted. Neither is particularly good or bad, they just ARE. It's like when asked if I think people are good or bad (or can be) - I respond "I just see them as people". It's not 'good' and/or 'bad' they're capable of (per say), but rather nature and/or artificiality.

I always thought that seemed too limiting though. I would love to find something alternative to both the natural AND the unnatural. Unfortunately, though, the human conscious is too limited, and the universe isn't any less so. Me? I choose to try and balance small amounts of both, admittedly rejecting the majority except where necessary to adopt it. Otherwise, I just simply accept that both exist, most people will live in the extremes of either (or both), and my miniscule thoughts will have no effect on the way the universe and the human conscious behaves. All I can do is just be honest with myself and with others, then hope for the best.
 

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That would suggest groupthink more than doublethink, wouldn't you think?
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In this case it's groupthink-derived opinions conflicting with natural urges. I was more apt to call it doublethink because I don't think you can opine away your instincts that simply, though it's not explicitly so.
 

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The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In this case it's groupthink-derived opinions conflicting with natural urges. I was more apt to call it doublethink because I don't think you can opine away your instincts that simply, though it's not explicitly so.
Depends on the instincts; surprisingly enough, they don't exist in ALL human beings. Also, there have been a few interesting Buddhist monks throughout history that may have overcome their base instincts, but getting concrete information on that would be difficult. I believe it's possible, it's just not probable. Why even bother overcoming your instincts if you see your instincts as not leading you into any sort of difficult position?

It's like personality types. They're not strictly defined; people have a natural tendency toward certain mindsets because of their functions. Therefore, it's the TENDENCY that one has to bear in mind when discussing types, just as it is with instincts.
 

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Depends on the instincts; surprisingly enough, they don't exist in ALL human beings. Also, there have been a few interesting Buddhist monks throughout history that may have overcome their base instincts, but getting concrete information on that would be difficult. I believe it's possible, it's just not probable. Why even bother overcoming your instincts if you see your instincts as not leading you into any sort of difficult position?

It's like personality types. They're not strictly defined; people have a natural tendency toward certain mindsets because of their functions. Therefore, it's the TENDENCY that one has to bear in mind when discussing types, just as it is with instincts.
I'm not trying to claim we all have those instincts, just talking about a lot of people who do. I am sp/so; my own sx is tiny, if extant.

Nor that people don't/can't overcome their instincts. But repressing it doesn't seem like a good way to achieve that - rather, it would be better to face the fact of your overriding instinct directly, to see it in its full capacity and potential and consider its ramifications for yourself.
 

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Nor that people don't/can't overcome their instincts. But repressing it doesn't seem like a good way to achieve that - rather, it would be better to face the fact of your overriding instinct directly, to see it in its full capacity and potential and consider its ramifications for yourself.
I agree to an extent, although that would be putting the individual at risk. That said, life is full of risks; however, it's rare not to find others with the 'overriding instincts' in question, in which case, why can you not learn anything from their experiences? It's important to consider the ramifications, and you could potentially find alternatives that may help keep you safe from both others' and your own overriding instincts, however, the choices are actually quite limited. Don't deny your own instincts, yes - in fact, admitting they exist is an important step to getting them under control so they don't end up controlling you. The next step is to put your conclusions together, devise a list of pros and cons, and be aware of when the instinct starts to get the better of you.

You know how some people recommend outlets? They recommend these to people with other potentially-instinctual impulses. In Buddhism, it's important to direct your attention to a clear mind. From there, you gather the facts on all sides of the matter. Compare them, find and pick out the flaws, solve the contradictions, and then make your choice. With all the other experiences you can build off of, why is it so important to experience things directly? Perhaps you believe the individual's experience would be too unique to take anything useful out of other experiences, but that ignores the similar driving instincts groups of people tend to share. Maybe you think they can only take small amounts of information from other experiences, but if that's the case, why are therapy and group therapy sessions more successful in getting the same results with less risk than natural experience?

Both the natural and 'therapeutic' means of learning take nearly an equal amount of time to be effective, and when natural experience takes less time to work, the risk is increased because the experience tends to be more intense. I know a former prostitute at my college who only worked for a year before realizing that her life needed to change, but she was forced into a gang before she could escape over ten years later - she had a LOT of experience having sex with a vast multitude of people, but she increased the chances of getting involved in something particularly dangerous because of it. It's like increasing the chances of yourself getting into a wreck by driving as often as possible (and to further increase the chances, get onto a highway!)
 
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