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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen severe representations of supraficiality on this very forum that I believe comes from potentially real youngish intjs. The shock comes from this: I've never ever met a single shallow intj in my real life. Even the xntj partygirls we traders used to invite to our boats when younger were not light butterflies. Not even near to anything shallow. Thats smt that just simply never happened.

So my question is this. Are the materialistic/techno/modern/brainless culture trends so strong they really put the seemingly rootless 20-35 y-o INTJs in full depersonalisation?

The statement is hardish, and many intj here are more the brains rather than the pinkies. But why so many pinkies?

I hope Im the most wrong about this, but as a trained sociologist, I really admire the work of fellow colleagues if they were able to perform outcomes of this particular maginitude. It means we, as a race really are .. doomed

Sometimes Im sad cause Im very sick, sometimes, when I take a glance around, and so few care, my disease makes me think my time here is as limited as is the time of the rest

What a loss
 

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What you experience of INTJs on this forum is a mixture of;

A) mistyped people. INTJ by description is fairly attractive. Many people stick with it because who doesn't like having their ego stroked with the title of mastermind and by being told how rare/smart/special they are. An especially attractive proposition to young people which leads to...

B) young/immature INTJs. This is the internet. The primary demographic is teens and underemployed 20 - somethings. These demographics are still young/naive/self-centered and inexperienced. They might occasionally hint at or poke at something deeper or more intellectual but the lack of experience in the subject and in having actual discussions (a skill that must be developed like all ) will come off as shallow or lacking depth to an older person. This ties into...

C) you are older. By your own admission a scholar of some sort and with plenty of life experiences under the belt. It's likely the XNTJ girls in your time were just as shallow but you percieved them as more complex because you were less complex at the time. If you're over the age of 40 and trying to connect intellectually with a demographic primarily composed of disillusioned 20 - somethings you're gonna have problems or need to form discussions based on very niche advanced topics that the demographic may have covered due to personal interest or for school. There are a limited # of hours in a day, days in a week, etc and one needs to learn or experience things in temporal space to discuss it at length. Depth of personality and interaction comes from accumulated knowledge and the breadth of knowledge. A 22 year old INTJ may be well thought out in a specific topic of interest (maybe 2 or 3) but not be able to hold conversations on more broad intellectual topics that they haven't had time to explore. Talk to the current shallow INTJ in 20 years and they'll likely present themselves much better and appear to have more depth, because they'd have accumulated more knowledge.

D) Finally this is the internet. Most people just spill their stream of consciousness out onto their keyboard and hit post without a second thought. In person they'd be more thoughtful and careful with what they say and may be able to verbalize ideas better then they do online. You can find some interesting conversations on typology or good theories on that here, but in the political and philosophy boards you'll encounter a slew of young people who think they have the universe figured out(myself included).

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Pinkie is our id!
:tongue:
ego stroked with the title of mastermind
Actually, it can have the opposite effect for some of us because it gives us the impression that we're somehow "supposed" to live up to that lofty standard/stereotype.

and by being told how rare/smart/special they are.
That can inculcate a feeling of isolation in some people.

An especially attractive proposition to young people
Narcissists, you mean. Most of us aren't that.

you are older.
Is 37 "old?"

a scholar of some sort
One of my buddies says I'm a "Sage." I like that.
:proud:
trying to connect intellectually with a demographic
I don't judge people by their demographic.

Most people just spill their stream of consciousness out onto their keyboard
Catharsis.

In person they'd be more thoughtful and careful with what they say and may be able to verbalize ideas better then they do online.
I've always found one-on-one communication more intuitive.

in the political and philosophy boards you'll encounter a slew of young people who think they have the universe figured out (myself included).
"A person should not believe in an 'ism'. They should believe in themself." ~Ferris Bueller
 

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Pinkie is our id!
:tongue:

Actually, it can have the opposite effect for some of us because it gives us the impression that we're somehow "supposed" to live up to that lofty standard/stereotype.


That can inculcate a feeling of isolation in some people.


Narcissists, you mean. Most of us aren't that.


Is 37 "old?"


One of my buddies says I'm a "Sage." I like that.
:proud:

I don't judge people by their demographic.


Catharsis.


I've always found one-on-one communication more intuitive.


"A person should not believe in an 'ism'. They should believe in themself." ~Ferris Bueller
I am on phone so direct quoting will be harder. I'll address your main points in what I hope is the relevant order.

The amount of people who may be turned off a type due to inherent self-doubt will likely still identify as the type. They might grapple with feelings of failure but will still enjoy the stroked ego. These aren't mutually exclusive ideas or feelings.

Most of us are narcissistic (young and old). This isn't a bad thing, some narcissistic behaviours are healthy and necessary. Younger people tend to score higher on narcissism than old people, likely due to less external real world experience and more of a focus on internal subjective experience. Narcissism is also more likely/common in INTJs due to the self-assuredness Ni-Te gives them.

37 isn't old but you're definitely not a fresh spring chicken. Even by jungs standards you have started to exercise your inferior function and are, if we were to liken you to a fruit, close to being ripe or already ripened. More concretely you have 15 years of experience on me, that's nearly double my total time of existence. You're probably gonna have some deeper insights into the world than me.

Judging people by demographic =/= acknowledging demographic trends. There's a reason most people frown or dissaprove of large age differences in relationships, esp if the younger party is under 35, generally the younger party is more inexperienced and likely to be taken advantage of. This doesn't mean that there aren't individual 20 somethings who are mature and we'll read and we'll spoken or that there aren't 60 year old naive dunces, simply that the reverse is more likely. As op stated, they have interacted with "deep" INTJs on this forum, they are simply surprised by the amount of seemingly shallow INTJs on this board. Demographics do play a role in that.

I think we are in full agreement regarding D. No further discussion is needed there. :)

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Where can I get some of that?


My Ni-Te must not be working right. At least not when it comes to that sort of thing.
Maybe you just haven't been right often enough. Maybe you're a mistyped ISTJ, the s is for stupid dontyaknow? /jk

Generally the Newtons and Teslas of the world know they're right and don't question it, doesn't mean there aren't more turbulent INTJS who are more self-critical.

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Maybe you're a mistyped ISTJ
INFP or ISFJ more likely.

Generally the Newtons and Teslas of the world know they're right and don't question it, doesn't mean there aren't more turbulent INTJs who are more self-critical.
That's the key difference - assertive versus turbulent. I'm...not assertive.
 
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What you experience of INTJs on this forum is a mixture of;

A) mistyped people. INTJ by description is fairly attractive. Many people stick with it because who doesn't like having their ego stroked with the title of mastermind and by being told how rare/smart/special they are. An especially attractive proposition to young people which leads to...

B) young/immature INTJs. This is the internet. The primary demographic is teens and underemployed 20 - somethings. These demographics are still young/naive/self-centered and inexperienced. They might occasionally hint at or poke at something deeper or more intellectual but the lack of experience in the subject and in having actual discussions (a skill that must be developed like all ) will come off as shallow or lacking depth to an older person. This ties into...

C) you are older. By your own admission a scholar of some sort and with plenty of life experiences under the belt. It's likely the XNTJ girls in your time were just as shallow but you percieved them as more complex because you were less complex at the time. If you're over the age of 40 and trying to connect intellectually with a demographic primarily composed of disillusioned 20 - somethings you're gonna have problems or need to form discussions based on very niche advanced topics that the demographic may have covered due to personal interest or for school. There are a limited # of hours in a day, days in a week, etc and one needs to learn or experience things in temporal space to discuss it at length. Depth of personality and interaction comes from accumulated knowledge and the breadth of knowledge. A 22 year old INTJ may be well thought out in a specific topic of interest (maybe 2 or 3) but not be able to hold conversations on more broad intellectual topics that they haven't had time to explore. Talk to the current shallow INTJ in 20 years and they'll likely present themselves much better and appear to have more depth, because they'd have accumulated more knowledge.

D) Finally this is the internet. Most people just spill their stream of consciousness out onto their keyboard and hit post without a second thought. In person they'd be more thoughtful and careful with what they say and may be able to verbalize ideas better then they do online. You can find some interesting conversations on typology or good theories on that here, but in the political and philosophy boards you'll encounter a slew of young people who think they have the universe figured out(myself included).

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As a twenty-year old who is still trying to prove myself in the world, I can definitely agree with your assessment of the forum.

That being said, I recall that INTJs do like materialistic, sensory things, especially when stressed. For me, I like good music and fine food. I'm even willing to try the strangest of things, which included beef tendon, chicken feet, and even frog legs.
 

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I get where you’re coming from anomalia. It’s kinda sad that not all INTJs live up to their potential. But it’s important to realize that every INTJ’s potential is different. This reminds me of a thread from a month or so ago that asked a similar type question.

A variety of factors play into not every INTJ being a CEO or genius scientist or president or whatever. IQ, ambition, drive, Enneagram, life circumstances, emotional maturity etc. It’s important to realize that every INTJ isn’t going to be the next Tesla, Newton, or Musk. Or X world changing genius. Those people are 1 in millions to start.

Most INTJs settle and end up living more or less normal lives. But I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that INTJs are way overrepresented at the top of society, particularly among self made men or women. They certainly have been among the greats of history. Those INTJs are probably more similar to the fictional INTJs you see in the media to the ones you’ll find here. It wouldn’t surprise me either if a lot of those INTJs were really healthy and had higher Te and maybe rarer Enneagram combos then what is the norm. And maybe a great partner too.

INTJs (and ENTJs) do posses great gifts that can do a lot for them personally, and for the world at large. One of the major things that hold a lot of INTJs back is all wrapped up with their relationship to other people and their introversion. Especially when unhealthy.

A surprising amount of younger INTJs also suffer from anxiety, particularly social anxiety. Most INTJs are also 5s, which lends itself to being fearful, passive, or withdrawn than take action. Not a recipe for greatness, but those are things that can be improved or overcome. A lot of INTJs aren’t as confident as descriptions would have you believe.

The key, in my opinion, is strong Te backed by strong Fi. That’s how an INTJ can succeed. That combo gives you the self control, confidence, independence, “master of my own fate” attitude, and the charisma to carry yourself wherever you need to go.

Strong Te gives you the skill and drive to do well and Fi gives you a little heart, makes it so you you’re not miserable, and hopefully makes sure you’re doing the things you value and love. Something about that really speaks to the right people.

As distasteful as it might be to some, you can’t really go anywhere in life if you don’t at least play the game.

What others said about the forum populace is true as well. There’s a 20-somethings trying to figure themselves out and a few older ones who I have a lot of respect for. Plus a few ambitious young hopefuls like myself that are gearing up for college and the real world.

I want to be one of the INTJs who really leaves a mark on this world.

If you want to set up a trust fund to help INTJs reach their potential feel free.
 

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B) young/immature INTJs. This is the internet. The primary demographic is teens and underemployed 20 - somethings. These demographics are still young/naive/self-centered and inexperienced. They might occasionally hint at or poke at something deeper or more intellectual but the lack of experience in the subject and in having actual discussions (a skill that must be developed like all ) will come off as shallow or lacking depth to an older person. This ties into...
Not sure they exist. When I was a kid, I was way more serious than now and heavily into debating, finding the truth etc. My moral convictions were probably a bit more black and white.
My INTJ friend was the same when he was younger.
If you read some of the posts by 20-something INTJs on here, they'll sound like they are a wise old 80.
Now (35) I can hardly be bothered with any academic endevaour that doesn't have a practical application; a lot of the time, I concentrate on things that I can influence and neglect to be interested in the larger world for stretches of time; I'm far sillier and more playful than I was as a kid.
 

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As a twenty-year old who is still trying to prove myself in the world, I can definitely agree with your assessment of the forum.

That being said, I recall that INTJs do like materialistic, sensory things, especially when stressed. For me, I like good music and fine food. I'm even willing to try the strangest of things, which included beef tendon, chicken feet, and even frog legs.

I had Sichuan style frog legs a while ago ... twice. Best thing ever.
 

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Where can I get some of that?


My Ni-Te must not be working right. At least not when it comes to that sort of thing.

I think it depends on what kind of self-assuredness he meant. If he meant an "I'm always right" and "told you so" mentality, that could be due to Ni-Te or Si-Te.
If he meant 'presence', 'charisma' etc, that's Se and it's not surprising that an INTJ's Se would be volatile or completely lacking, it being our inferior function.

Actually, A LOT of the nonsense that is often ascribed to INTJs has to do with Se more than anything. Some of it will be manifestations of healthy Se, some unhealthy/ inferior Se and a lot of it will not be typical of INTJs at all.
 

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I believe that many INTJs (especially teens-young adults) try to appear more superficial and "chill" in order to be more likeable. I don't believe it's possible for an INTJ to be actually superficial tbh
 

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Not sure they exist. When I was a kid, I was way more serious than now and heavily into debating, finding the truth etc. My moral convictions were probably a bit more black and white.
My INTJ friend was the same when he was younger.
If you read some of the posts by 20-something INTJs on here, they'll sound like they are a wise old 80.
Now (35) I can hardly be bothered with any academic endevaour that doesn't have a practical application; a lot of the time, I concentrate on things that I can influence and neglect to be interested in the larger world for stretches of time; I'm far sillier and more playful than I was as a kid.
I would think what the author of the comment you referred to meant was not interests but abilities.

I'm also more playful now than I was as a kid.

But my analytical skills were much worse 10 years ago than they are now. I sometimes used to see just one side of things and take some things for granted. My intuition wasn't that developed. Now I'm much more careful in my assessments - not because I'm trying not to hurt anyone, but because I've gone through so much and I've seen so much and I've been proved correct - but also wrong - so many times that my "analytical imagination" is quite big.

I agree with the first reply on this thread that there seem to be many mistyped and immature people on here.
 

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Ah, yes—the occasional:

"Everyone sucks but me,"

"Most people are superficial, unlike me,"

"Why are people so shallow? Unlike me,"

"All other (NT)'s are mistyped, except me,"

"That person is 'mistyed' because I feel it is so,"

"Most people are ignorant, much more than me!"



Common youngling and/or elderly (NT) cognitive biases. :bwink:
 

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I can see that positively:
If people want to be INTJs, they'll act like INTJs.
So I can see it as an improvement and a good thing.
They'll "bring up the potential" of themselves and do everything (I hope) to follow the INTJ-stereotype. (Be smarter, more intellectual and more analytical and objective.)

Elaboration:
 
You see, I don't care about titles. I don't mind if people call themselves INTJs, it's not like they say they're me. In fact, I don't even care if they say they're me. But the matter is: There are many INTJs anyway (dozens of millions. Though I don't find them around me.). But when folks call themselves INTJs, I don't feel like they take something from me. (I have felt like they do, for hours, but then...) I realized I don't own the "INTJ" term. I've always been and knew myself, regardless of the MBTI. The MBTI just describes some of my features. I never bought this personality. And I have nothing to do with this knowledge (spoiler).

 
Well I use this knowledge but only to be here to improve my English.


So everyone can be INTJs imo. They can be shallow. They can be whatever they want, that doesn't bother me. They don't ruin my impression on myself or anything anyway. And I honestly don't care if they will bring up the potential of themselves, but that's not wrong to try.
--
The topic "Top 5 Things INTJ Men Prefer in Women"... ay...
 

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Not sure they exist. When I was a kid, I was way more serious than now and heavily into debating, finding the truth etc. My moral convictions were probably a bit more black and white.
My INTJ friend was the same when he was younger.
If you read some of the posts by 20-something INTJs on here, they'll sound like they are a wise old 80.
Now (35) I can hardly be bothered with any academic endevaour that doesn't have a practical application; a lot of the time, I concentrate on things that I can influence and neglect to be interested in the larger world for stretches of time; I'm far sillier and more playful than I was as a kid.
I don't think young INTJs are any less immature than young people of other types, I think our maturation just takes a path that seems backward because a lot of what people see as "immaturity" can be conflated with Se behavior at a glance, and young INTJs are still repressing their inferior hard. Their "responsibility" is as much pretension and fear of incompetence or of being emotionally transparent as it is practical, and their lack of wild behavior is as much caused by inability to engage Fi and Se in a measured way as it is the result of genuine good judgment. That's also, I think, why younger INTJs frequently appear drier and more controlled and more self-serious than older INTJs. The ones still letting on like they have everything figured out who haven't yet really learned to laugh at themselves are the least mature of the bunch.

I seemed rather mature to adults as a kid, but looking back that's hardly true. I did the "correct" things for immature reasons and kept myself from experimenting and making mistakes that are best made and learned from young.

Anyway, Se is the key here. Inferior Se can absolutely lead right to superficiality of various kinds, often a secret weakness for "cool" stuff or physical beauty or status. The most sexually superficial man I've known was an INTJ. Hell, my XNTJ type 1 younger sister, who is more overtly TJ- seeming than me and who maintained a very polished and "mature" public facade, used to have private meltdowns when someone picked up the wrong hair product for her.
 

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I had Sichuan style frog legs a while ago ... twice. Best thing ever.
Indeed! I had mine with black bean sauce. They really do taste like chicken!
 
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