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Discussion Starter #1
If I achieve any success all appreciation earned through it is appreciation of what I can do, not of me. I don't want that, I want to be appreciated for what I am not what I've done. Yet without achieving something there's nothing to appreciate, so I hide behind a nonchelant facade and a web of pointless lies to ensure I'll forever be less than average. When someone can accept me at my worst perhaps I'll truly engage life but it's not going to happen because they'll still be liking what they see, which isn't me :frustrating:
 

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Hmm... this quote from my past seems relevant to this typing, if you want to call it that.
But let me state very plainly, that there are positive and negative 3s. The positive 3s are the ones that can be all things to all people, and want to be winners. The negative 3s want to not alienate people or be sounseemly so as to offend. The negative 3 wants to avoid loss.

I'm noted for being very blunt and out spoken, but it would be extremely dishonest to claim that I'm not consciously managing my " image " ( as a no-nonsense, tells it like it is, person! ) She could be a negative 3, who wants to avoid loss. And I might remind you, that Claudio Naranjo claims that the core of E 3, is the belief that they can only count on themselves, and that love is inconstant.... That is why E 3 is one of the aggressive Ennea types, and why is why a 3 can turn to ruthlessness, it can be seen as a necessity, a tool for survival.
what I should have said, is the 3's life to be expansive and maximize, or the 3 is to be defensive and minimize.... Does the 3 risk much, or try to reduce risk to the barest minimum? Many 3s are in a small pond, with little room to shine. Many 3s have the mindset, but no great gifts and talents, to actually reach the heights. ( Yes, many 3s are just like the rest of us, good at somethings and average at others! ) So, avoiding loss, defeat, and avoid seeming to be a loser is the 3 minimizer's goal.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks, I was thinking backwards 3 but don't remember reading about that side of the type. Most 3 stuff seems inapropriate but the OP is me and if that's 3 so be it.
 

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Lol, a Three. Wanna also try to figure out your wing?
Answer these questions.

1.) Do you feel that you are naturally separated from the world and withdraw from it or do you constantly try to connect with other people?
2.) Are you ever inclined towards uncooperative individualism?
3.) Do you place a lot of importance on being liked? Does the idea of being "disliked because of being extraordinary" seem appealing to you at all?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
BroNerd said:
Lol, a Three. Wanna also try to figure out your wing?
Honestly? No. I'd rather do anything that sit here for another day wallowing in self reflection on a wasted life, but as I have nothing better to do I'd may as well answer your questions. They are hard...

Do you feel that you are naturally separated from the world and withdraw from it or do you constantly try to connect with other people?
I'm separate, the outward lack of desire to want or acknowledge doing normal things leaves me little to talk about with most people. No one would think me an extravert, me included. I even keep my headphones on at all times in the gym to avoid conversation.

I do love connecting with people but offline I come off as disinterested (I don't know you let alone your brother, it's hard to care that he's going on holiday) and I'm way too private to be interesting myself so connection doesn't happen. I'm better online but even then I don't accept random friend requests on here and the idea of sites like facebook is repulsive. I'm picky about who I connect with.

2.) Are you ever inclined towards uncooperative individualism?
I'm failing to frame this so can't answer it. Can you explain, or give an example?

3.) Do you place a lot of importance on being liked? Does the idea of being "disliked because of being extraordinary" seem appealing to you at all?
If I could see something extraordinary in a positive way about myself I wouldn't mind being disliked for it - it is me, you will accept it. Trouble is, I don't really have a strong self image so I'm very flexible and 'normal' about almost everything so everyone takes away a somewhat positive impression of me. Not positive enough to ask if I'm not there the next time the same group are doing the same thing but enough that if I am there I'm remembered. I will have forgotten all of them which is not endearing...

If put in a room with 100 people I never have to see again I'd be far happier taking away one close friend from the gathering than leaving a positive impression on everyone if that's the angle you were considering?


Any of that any use?
 

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Honestly? No. I'd rather do anything that sit here for another day wallowing in self reflection on a wasted life, but as I have nothing better to do I'd may as well answer your questions. They are hard...

Do you feel that you are naturally separated from the world and withdraw from it or do you constantly try to connect with other people?
I'm separate, the outward lack of desire to want or acknowledge doing normal things leaves me little to talk about with most people. No one would think me an extravert, me included. I even keep my headphones on at all times in the gym to avoid conversation.

I do love connecting with people but offline I come off as disinterested (I don't know you let alone your brother, it's hard to care that he's going on holiday) and I'm way too private to be interesting myself so connection doesn't happen. I'm better online but even then I don't accept random friend requests on here and the idea of sites like facebook is repulsive. I'm picky about who I connect with.

2.) Are you ever inclined towards uncooperative individualism?
I'm failing to frame this so can't answer it. Can you explain, or give an example?

3.) Do you place a lot of importance on being liked? Does the idea of being "disliked because of being extraordinary" seem appealing to you at all?
If I could see something extraordinary in a positive way about myself I wouldn't mind being disliked for it - it is me, you will accept it. Trouble is, I don't really have a strong self image so I'm very flexible and 'normal' about almost everything so everyone takes away a somewhat positive impression of me. Not positive enough to ask if I'm not there the next time the same group are doing the same thing but enough that if I am there I'm remembered. I will have forgotten all of them which is not endearing...

If put in a room with 100 people I never have to see again I'd be far happier taking away one close friend from the gathering than leaving a positive impression on everyone if that's the angle you were considering?


Any of that any use?
I'm really thinking 3w4.
As for "uncooperative individualism", this simply means that you are unwilling to help others out while sacrificing your own "sense of individualism".

But regardless of your answer.. [3w2's never act like this while 3w4's sometimes do but many don't]..I'd say 3w4 for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
As for "uncooperative individualism", this simply means that you are unwilling to help others out while sacrificing your own "sense of individualism".
I've been thinking about this for well over an hour and can't even think of a way it could come up, it certainly hasn't in my life.

Despite my disconection from most people I am very helpful and have been guilty of putting the needs of others before my own, like at uni where I fixed people's computer problems so they could work when I should have been working myself. I didn't even know the names of some of those I helped. Unfortunately I don't remember if this was due to wanting to be seen as helpful/competent or just because real world problems are where I'm at my best, which is not helpful when typing myself. I have lots of spare time and helping someone else is more rewarding than pursuing achievements that I don't want (see OP).

But regardless of your answer.. [3w2's never act like this while 3w4's sometimes do but many don't]..I'd say 3w4 for you.
Oh good, I guess. I'll have to have a read to confirm of course but thanks for your thoughts :happy:
 

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First post seems to be describing something a bit passive-aggressive. Sort of like a "if you're not going to love me at my worst, I'm not going to try to be something good." which doesn't sound very 3. But I don't really know.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
First post seems to be describing something a bit passive-aggressive. Sort of like a "if you're not going to love me at my worst, I'm not going to try to be something good." which doesn't sound very 3. But I don't really know.
Interesting observation, but thankfully wrong (I think)

I actually bend far too much when someone does get nearly close, I try to become what I think they want me to be so they wont lose interest (though they never had any in the first place because I didn't have a running start on being what they want). If they value tidy I'll get my hair cut and shave more often, one said I was thin so I joined a gym, another said if I liked animals so much how could I eat meat so I've now been a vegetarian for 18 months... It's pathetic really. Where is the real me in any of this?

Then I berate myself for falling back in to this old pattern and vow to "do" less, hoping that by being true to myself I will be truly appreciated. But I don't know what that is. Or maybe that is passive-aggressive, it's certainly passive... :unsure:
 

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First post seems to be describing something a bit passive-aggressive. Sort of like a "if you're not going to love me at my worst, I'm not going to try to be something good." which doesn't sound very 3. But I don't really know.
Interesting point. I had actually misread the OP as saying" I hide behind a web of lies to ensure I'll never be average". That changes a lot of things.

There is a clear disconnect between the self and the constructed image of success which people ultimately admire, leaving the person within feeling empty. The earned appreciation is directed at the "human doing" not the human being. That's what he seemed to be talking about. The web of lies to ensure he'll forever be average sounds self-defeating (3s hate being average). But, a depressed and disillusioned 3 may very well end up feeling that way. OR Op is a 9. The whole..I help people at my own expense doesn't sound like something a 3 would say.

1. asmit, why are you helping to this extent? Do you always put other people's needs first? That part was incredibly 9ish.


I want you to answer the questionnaire~ Do it! lol This type my lovely lil paragraph thing was a novel idea. But, I need a lot more information from you. The questionnaire was created for a reason, so utilize it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Interesting point. I had actually misread the OP as saying" I hide behind a web of lies to ensure I'll never be average". That changes a lot of things.

I want you to answer the questionnaire~ Do it! lol This type my lovely lil paragraph thing was a novel idea. But, I need a lot more information from you. The questionnaire was created for a reason, so utilize it.
You couldn't read a couple of sentences so you want a whole essay? That makes no sense and sounds like a waste of time.

Fortunately though I spent most of Friday trying to answer the questionairre (which I still don't like - I criticised it during production so I can say that :tongue:) so I'd may as well spend a little longer polishing the answers. More words written means more chance of them being misinterpreted though, so I don't hold much hope for not spending the next week clarifying. The limitation of words frustrate me no end and the aforementioned misreading does nothing to alleviate this.
 

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As for the "misreading", it would help you to keep in mind that I have a life. A very busy life. All my attention isn't reserved for type me threads on this forum. Anyone who thinks that all accurate typing takes is a measly paragraph doesn't know what they're talking about. It's commonsensical that detailed, thoughtful responses allow typers to provide more meaningful analyses. Your condescension is incredibly juvenile. Try harder next time.

If you don't want to answer the questionnaire, don't do it. You're not doing me any favours. Besides, it's not like you came up with any worthwhile suggestions while the questionnaire was being created so it doesn't matter one bit if you aren't a fan. ;)

That you want to "polish" the answers tells me that you're not approaching it honestly. It would be a big fat waste of my time to read it, given your attitude towards the questionnaire and the typing process. I will save myself the trouble, so should you. *laugh*
 
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