[teddy564339]

I have this one friend from back in college, and while I'm not 100% sure he's an ESTJ, that's what I pegged him as, and then when he took a personality test he got ESTJ too, so I'm pretty sure.

He's very outgoing, loves to meet and interact with all kinds of people, and he loves new experiences in life. He's very much a "guy's guy" and he likes to socially drink, loves sports, and likes sexual humor. He was also quite popular back in college.

In addition, he's an obsessively hard worker, putting in tons and tons of hours at work (he worked almost full time when he was in college, too). He's extremely busy, and he has a hard time fitting everything in...he works so much, but he wants to experience so much of life too. He likes to map and plan things out a lot, which led me to peg him as an SJ (I thought his openness to new things would make him more of a P, but I think it's more due to his extraversion, since he likes structure and planning so much).


I've read a lot of threads talking about ESTJ men (especially older men) being these firm, tough drill sergeant type people, who are very strict and adhere to the policy "my way or the highway). I do think this has a lot to do with them being older and more conservative, but still, it seems like that tends to be the stereotype.


But here's what I find so fascinating about this friend of mine. Usually, with people like him, I tend to not get along with because I get intimidated (I'm an ISFJ, so that's not too hard to imagine ), and I don't become friends with them. But even though at first I kind of felt that way about him, he's always seemed to have sort of a "softer" side. He likes to joke around a lot, but unlike a lot of NT's I know, you can tell he means no harm and just wants to have fun. He's easy to talk to, and he always has a way of making me (and a lot of people he knows) feel comfortable, especially when talking one-on-one.

He does like to give advice a lot, and he's not very touchy-feely with his words...he's pretty straight to the point and doesn't unnecessarily sugar-coat things. But at the same time he's very open, supportive and friendly.



I do think I remember that he tested as only a somewhat slight T, so I can't help but think that maybe he has more of a feeling side that a lot of ESTJ's. I don't picture him being an ESFJ, however....not only does he have a lot of ESTJ traits, but I always picture ESFJ's as being very protective and motherly, and he doesn't strike me like that at all.






So for you ESTJ's (especially males), do you find that you have a "softer" side that you show people once you get to know them, or do you think my friend just has less of a thinking preference than your average ESTJ?




In addition, it may just be because we're guys, but sometimes I get afraid of showing too much emotion towards him, in fear that he'll think that I'm "too soft". Do you ESTJ's have any advice on the best way to let an ESTJ know you care without overwhelming them with emotion? I'm always trying to walk that line with him and I get confused sometimes.

 

[WickedQueen]

So for you ESTJ's (especially males), do you find that you have a "softer" side that you show people once you get to know them, or do you think my friend just has less of a thinking preference than your average ESTJ?

I never let anyone get closer, even my best friends have their limits. But yes, I think I do have a softer side. At least that's what my exes told me.

In addition, it may just be because we're guys, but sometimes I get afraid of showing too much emotion towards him, in fear that he'll think that I'm "too soft". Do you ESTJ's have any advice on the best way to let an ESTJ know you care without overwhelming them with emotion? I'm always trying to walk that line with him and I get confused sometimes.

We don't talk about our "soft" emotions. We just show it, most of the times in very subtle way that not everyone can "get" it or get the meaning behind our actions. And I think ESTJs expect others to treat us the same way.

There's a lot more to say, but I'm in a hurry right now. I'll continue when I get a chance.

 

[Inflexus]

We all have soft sides. Everyone does. I think that we don't try to show it, I only talk to intimate friends about my intrinsic issues, but I can tell anyone about other more physical or materialistic problems. I don't fear being vulnerable to my friends because they know I'm a hardcore crazy-ass mother lover, and we all understand that everyone has vulnerabilities.

My best friends are ENFP, ISTJ, and INFJ themselves, so... they tend to be a little better about understanding than I am. And they get that I'm just all about the whole "no bull, no excuses, no lazyness, just get crap over with" kind of attitude. I'll be honest though, I'm the one who's doing the best in terms of money and employment and in terms of a 10 year plan, I'm going to go the furthest in terms of material success. They're kind of forced to accept my opinion because I have that on them, but they hate when I even mention it because they feel I'm being egotistical and they know how well I'm doing.

I know that's a bit of a tangent... but yeah. They may not always sympathise with you because you are so different, but I think they will take sharing your feelings as a very high gesture of respect.

 

[Splitty]

We have a soft side, we're not machines. But the people we show the soft side to are few and far between. I really only have 2-3 people that I will talk to about personal issues. I can listen to my friend's problems but I'm trying to figure out what advice I can give them and what I can do to help. I can almost guarantee that a true ESTJ will not empathize with you or take part in a pity party. And definitely don't tell us if you caused whatever situation you're in, we will probably fail in resisting to point that out. I can only speak for myself but when I see someone getting all emotional over something it kinda gets under my skin. I think to myself that they should get a grip, control the situation and deal with it. But I keep that to myself because I know people deal with things differently.

 

[teddy564339]

We have a soft side, we're not machines. But the people we show the soft side to are few and far between. I really only have 2-3 people that I will talk to about personal issues. I can listen to my friend's problems but I'm trying to figure out what advice I can give them and what I can do to help. I can almost guarantee that a true ESTJ will not empathize with you or take part in a pity party. And definitely don't tell us if you caused whatever situation you're in, we will probably fail in resisting to point that out. I can only speak for myself but when I see someone getting all emotional over something it kinda gets under my skin. I think to myself that they should get a grip, control the situation and deal with it. But I keep that to myself because I know people deal with things differently.

You know, you saying that is extremely interesting.


I remember about a year ago that I lost my job and had recently gotten a new one and that I was having a hard time adapting to it. I knew that my ESTJ friend had recently moved to a new city and was going into grad school (though this was something that was completely his choice). I was having a really hard time, and I thought maybe he could relate some because he was going through a transition in his life too.

I was really down in the dumps about the whole thing, and I just kind of needed to let all of my emotions out. I told him about all of it in an email, but I was afraid of coming across as too whiny (though I actually mentioned that in the email in hopes that if I did, I was at least aware of it, a typical ISFJ move ).

And his response was really interesting...he seemed genuinely sympathetic, but at the same he offered the same advice you just said...he said pretty much that I would have to deal with it. He even said that he had been through a lot of transitions in life and that it was best to try to look at the new situation as an opportunity and to make the most out of it.


So he seemed to feel the same way that you do (that when things get tough, you just have to suck it up and move on), but he worded it in a really nice way. He not only confirmed that he knew it was tough, but he also tended to put the emphasis on his own experiences rather than me. He kept saying things like "When I've had to go through transitions in the past, I've found that they've helped me and I'm grateful for the new people I've met". So it seems like he felt the way you did...he wanted to help me and give me advice, but at the same time I think he also may have thought that I needed to just deal with the situation and move on.



Ha ha...so now I don't know which way to feel about it now that I look back on it...should I feel bad that I came across as over-dramatic about something he thought I should have just sucked up and dealt with, or should I feel good that we're good enough friends that he still gave the advice gently and nicely?

It doesn't matter anyway, since I'm sure he's forgotten about the whole thing and doesn't remember what I said or the advice he gave. That's typical Si and Fe on my part....remembering the details and caring about what others feel.


Either way, thanks for the input, it's really fascinating! And I appreciated the input of WickedQueen and Inflexus, too, I just couldn't think of anything to respond to it with. I know not all ESTJ's are the same, but I've gotten some great insight about them.

 

[Splitty]

You know, you saying that is extremely interesting.
Ha ha...so now I don't know which way to feel about it now that I look back on it...should I feel bad that I came across as over-dramatic about something he thought I should have just sucked up and dealt with, or should I feel good that we're good enough friends that he still gave the advice gently and nicely?

It doesn't matter anyway, since I'm sure he's forgotten about the whole thing and doesn't remember what I said or the advice he gave. That's typical Si and Fe on my part....remembering the details and caring about what others feel.

First off, never apologize for who you are. Accept who you are and damn the ones who don't, can't or won't. I guarantee that your ESTJ friend was honored and humbled that you confided in him and probably felt like you two were now closer friends because of it. If he didn't feel that way he probably would have:
A. not been as friendly in his word choice
B. avoided talking to you until you figured out your problems on your own

Be happy that you have a mature ESTJ friend who has your back. They're good to have. :happy:

 

[teddy564339]

First off, never apologize for who you are. Accept who you are and damn the ones who don't, can't or won't. I guarantee that your ESTJ friend was honored and humbled that you confided in him and probably felt like you two were now closer friends because of it. If he didn't feel that way he probably would have:
A. not been as friendly in his word choice
B. avoided talking to you until you figured out your problems on your own

Be happy that you have a mature ESTJ friend who has your back. They're good to have. :happy:

Ha ha, that's what's awesome about you ESTJ's...your blunt, straightforward "kick-in-the-ass" way of putting things is sometimes just what I need.

Thanks again, what you've said has actually made me feel a lot better about this. I tend to over worry about things and create worst-case scenarios in my head, and getting support from others really helps me to overcome those and feel more relaxed, at peace, and happier. I'll have to remember this thread and come back to it when my mind starts playing tricks on me again. So yeah, you've been very helpful!

 

[WickedQueen]

So he seemed to feel the same way that you do (that when things get tough, you just have to suck it up and move on), but he worded it in a really nice way. He not only confirmed that he knew it was tough, but he also tended to put the emphasis on his own experiences rather than me. He kept saying things like "When I've had to go through transitions in the past, I've found that they've helped me and I'm grateful for the new people I've met". So it seems like he felt the way you did...he wanted to help me and give me advice, but at the same time I think he also may have thought that I needed to just deal with the situation and move on.

Yeah, that's my typical way of giving advice too. I don't like giving direct advices, like : "You should do this..." or "you shouldn't do that..." or "that's not right" or "you're wrong". My intention is not to give advice, but to share my experience, with hope that the person can take example from my action and find a similar way to do it in his own way.

 

[Mutatio NOmenis]

ESTJ's have plenty of soft in them, but you often have to earn the right to behold it.

 

[KrystRay]

lol. Earn it. You just have to prove that you're worth our time. We don't like wasting our words on people who don't listen to rational advice.

 

[laly37]

I think the other ESTJs have sum it all up. If you have a friend as a ESTJ I don't think you have to pretend anything. Just be yourself. If they are still around and treat you well, they care about you.

 

[teddy564339]

I think the other ESTJs have sum it all up. If you have a friend as a ESTJ I don't think you have to pretend anything. Just be yourself. If they are still around and treat you well, they care about you.

This is a very simple way to put it but is actually extremely helpful to me.

I actually just talked to this ESTJ friend of mine on the phone earlier today...I hadn't talked to him other than on email for about 9 months. We didn't talk long, only 15 minutes or so, but hearing what you guys have said has made me feel really good about it.

Because the thing is...he's a friend I've always really respected and admired. Even though it's stupid, I've always felt like he was "cooler" than me. He's always struck me as very confident, very social, has a lot of friends, and has a lot of experience in life. It doesn't seem like anything ever really bothers him much, and he just knows how to work very hard but also have a lot of fun in life.

I, on the other hand, tend to be very sensitive, shy, and sheltered. I also am a very hard worker and I'm an extremely kind hearted person...but these traits don't necessarily give a very "cool" vibe.


But he's always treated me extremely nicely and been a good friend to me. I've kind of opened up some about my feelings about this to him on email. It's funny, I once told him that I used to think that he was "cooler" than me (though I acted like it was something all in the past) and that I had always appreciated being as nice as he was to me. I also told him some of the things that I admired about him. It felt pretty awkward to say, partly because we're both guys, but it was a lot easier over email.

His response was that he had always viewed me as a friend, the thought of him being "cooler" hadn't crossed his mind, and he thanked me for the kind words I said about him.

But it's just always felt kind of funny, because I'm always so deep and touchy-feely about things. His responses were always pretty short and to the point, so it's always made me feel weird about opening up so much...I've never wanted to overwhelm him with emotion or get too touchy-feely for his taste. And because he doesn't show as much emotion, it's just been hard to gauge his true feelings.


So that's why you guys have been so helpful to me. I know not all ISFJ's and ESTJ's are the same, but I've really learned so much about how people operate differently. I've read how natural it is for ISFJ's to over worry about things, to create worst case scenarios in our heads, and to freak ourselves out to the point where it hurts our self confidence and makes us feel bad about ourselves.

And learning from you guys about how ESTJ's show their appreciation through people just through simple acts of friendship and kindness rather than a lot of deep, touchy-feely words, has made me realize that I over-analyze and worry about all of this in a way that my friend just doesn't. I've learned that I don't have to be like him for us to be friends, and that he simply just values our friendship, even if I am the more shy and sensitive of us.



So it's really cool...you guys really have helped me out a lot and helped set my mind at ease about a lot of things. I just need to make sure I remember all of this as I go forward. Thanks again!