The (stream of conscious?) venting thread for INTPs

Hello sir,

I will support your effort as I deem it an altruistic cause. I was also doing some attention seeking trolling myself, trying to decide if there were a thread missing that our forum direly needed. Alas I saw your post with zero replies and thought I'd help a brother out. Oh, doesn't it suck when you make a new topic and nobody responds for over a day? I know that INTP and high IQ doesn't go hand-in-hand (hmm or maybe only the smart ones realize that they're INTP and find INTP forums?). It's plausible that INTP's online are over represented in the high IQ department and that the other INTP's are just clueless as to why they feel so outcast.

I've never taken a legitimate IQ test but I am self guesstimating that mine hovers around the 155 range give or take. I know this might be wishful thinking as well but I'm being realistic about it. 135 range just seems too low as people in this range I deem "above average" yet their logic still "pisses me off" sometimes. I've realized that my emotion of getting "pissed off" is actually meaning "frustrated" because I have to explain to someone else in detail what I already know to be true.

When someone proposes a conjecture which I have already theorized and dropped as impossible-- it leads me to believe they are only behind in the race to the solution. My mind is fast and can hold many thoughts simultaneously. My sequential memory is not the best, especially because I smoke so much weed, but my ability to pull pertinent information out of past and current events is unbeatable.

I can instantly make analogies between the most incompatible subjects to elaborate my point and drive it home. The analogies come to me almost in a divine way, as the answer popped into my head. Except, I know the real working mechanism is that my brain can tap itself very easily horizontally, like I have tons of ram, I can process lots of information at once-- but storing that information is another thing.

Shen an intuitive turns on his/her "sensing" abilities-- it is impossible to store every external event as a memory. Especially when sensing is new for us and it's like a barrage of info coming at once. We can only filter and process and store what's relevant at the given time.

//end transmission.

If I read one more manga or comic, watch one more anime, TV show, or movie, where one of the very few women on the cast does the "Slap of Sense Into My Love Interest", I'm going to buy a gun, and I am going to shoot every man in the crotch.

NO MORE. NO MORE OF THIS. FUCK'S SAKE, WOMAN, IS A SLAP ALL YOU'VE GOT?

It's probably no big deal, but I hate it. Every time I see the Sense Slap, I get a sick feeling in my stomach, and fierce need to break things. Am I supposed to take it as, "Look! These men are insanely powerful, but she made him think just by slapping him omgwtfbbq wimmenz is so powerful derp."
I realize, women are not as strong as men IRL, and blah blah blah, but if you have a comic where people are flying around, or they're fighting with darkness and light themselves, &c, I think it's safe to bend the rules a bit more.


Some days, I just want to see a lady punch a whole in the wall and have it be 'No Big D'. I'd like to see her do something epic, and have it be epic because IT IS EPIC, and not because she is a wimmenz in a gaiz wurld. Is that so bad?


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:3
I love your signature, Zombie Jesus.

Valiums said:

If I read one more manga or comic, watch one more anime, TV show, or movie, where one of the very few women on the cast does the "Slap of Sense Into My Love Interest", I'm going to buy a gun, and I am going to shoot every man in the crotch.

NO MORE. NO MORE OF THIS. FUCK'S SAKE, WOMAN, IS A SLAP ALL YOU'VE GOT?

It's probably no big deal, but I hate it. Every time I see the Sense Slap, I get a sick feeling in my stomach, and fierce need to break things. Am I supposed to take it as, "Look! These men are insanely powerful, but she made him think just by slapping him omgwtfbbq wimmenz is so powerful derp."
I realize, women are not as strong as men IRL, and blah blah blah, but if you have a comic where people are flying around, or they're fighting with darkness and light themselves, &c, I think it's safe to bend the rules a bit more.


Some days, I just want to see a lady punch a whole in the wall and have it be 'No Big D'. I'd like to see her do something epic, and have it be epic because IT IS EPIC, and not because she is a wimmenz in a gaiz wurld. Is that so bad?


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:3
I love your signature, Zombie Jesus.

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[video=hulu;_niRm9jgUMgt2yFfM6jliA]http://www.hulu.com/watch/35923/death-note-rebirth[/video]

the two girls in deathnote have the ability to kill! wouldn't that be nice

Latest idiotic personal theory: There's a correlation in countries between parliamentary governments and the prevalence of squat toilets. Causation remains unproven, but doubted.

And this thought occurred yesterday (it rained here): What if someone made a candle that smelled like wet dog? Better yet, a whole line of gross smelling candles? You might be asking "Who would buy that?" and "How would you make money at it?".
My reasoning: a)The concept has novel appeal. b) People are inclined to buy things that possess novel appeal at least once c) Therefore, people would buy my shit-candles at least once. So, if priced appropriately, with low overhead (outsourcing/child labor/both), I could turn a fairly reasonable profit.


It then occurred to me that I have no idea how candles are made or what causes wet dog smell. I researched both. The entire process would be pretty involved and difficult, which is okay because I have no intention of doing any of this.


Finally, prolly is not a word. It was never a word. The word that is making a slurred attempt to escape your plaque ridden toothless mouth or being typed with your feces incrusted finger is “probably”. That’s a word. That’s a real word. Use it, for when you say or type “prolly” you sound like a meth addict who lives in West Virginia with ’84 Camarro out back which may or may not be on cinder blocks.

@Valiums, I agree. And when women in manga/anime are all powerful and stuff, they are usually inhuman beings that are simply female in form, but really they could look like a fuchsia baboon-head cat and would still be the same.

And thanks :happy:

@RogueWave, I haven't seen many squat toilets here in Australia... or are you staing it's an inverse correlation?

When I was at art school, there was a girl who made a series of various gross soaps for her final work. There was an onion one, one with toenails... (it was transparent so you could see the bits). My mum bought the onion one (which was funny since the final year show wasn't an "art sale" sort of exhibition). So there might be a market for gross candles... At least my mum might buy one :crazy:

Gah! Prolly! This is one of those "I kill your face!" sorts of things people say, along with "irregardless", or "I could care less" (although this is more grammatical, don't they realize they're saying the opposite of what they mean?!).

It's hard trying to contemplate the world as a whole because for one extreme, there's always another extreme in the opposite direction to balance it out, and when you try to take in all the information available in the world trying to run simulations in your head with all the data that you gathered via empathy and intuition, your mind itself ends up being split in two.

Luckily for me, I managed to combine my fractured psyche somewhere in the middle, and now I feel...neutral.

Some days I'm all like "hmm, I'm going to go check out some of the other subforums on here and see what everyone else is all about" since like, so many other types post in the INTP forum, so it's not like any forum is really that exclusive, right? But then I read some of them and I'm like, "well, I guess that doesn't really apply to me since I'm not XXXX type, so I won't respond" and then I come back here, but I have read all these ones already and lost interest so why can't I just go over there and answer some other questions that interest me, would that be so wrong? But it's like showing up at your neighbors' house uninvited because you heard they're having a party. At least, that's how I'm thinking about it, but that's probably just the introvert overanalyzer talking.

So anyway, after that I'm thinking, "well, I could just go to the general trends forums, or the enneagram forums" but the enneagram ones always bore me for some reason... I just can't get that big into the numbers, even though I like numbers, mostly. Maybe it's because it's a single number and not a complex number with four digits. I can always think of the MBTI as four numbers, or like binary numbers, which is awesome because they're just on/off switches, which is how I think my emotions work too! On/Off, On/Off, etc. MBTI types as binary...hmm... 1001... 1010....1011...0101... could be cool.

Anyway, back to trends. Sometimes I read them and they just seem dull, dull like the generation forums, jezuz I can't imagine anything more boring than those, but maybe it's just because I only read the Gen Y one? (Sticking to one category again....)


....


Got bored with writing this, so the rant ends here. Oh yeah, I'm fighting ennui tonight.

I found a way to not let my überfeminazism ruin a game; it's the same method I use to enjoy a Harry Potter movie.

"Remember that this is a MOVIE, not a book. This is not the book as you imagined it but on the big screen. These are SEPERATE entities. There will be differences."

I applied it while watching some Bayonetta gameplay.

"Remember that that is VIDEO GAME character. These are not actual women as you see them but on the screen. These are SEPARATE entities. There will be differences."

The only downside is that suddenly there are very, very few females in games at all.
But! Look at the way that boobèd thing moves! Double pistols are awesome.



















<< Surprisingly useful.

SaiKick said:

I know that INTP and high IQ doesn't go hand-in-hand (hmm or maybe only the smart ones realize that they're INTP and find INTP forums?). It's plausible that INTP's online are over represented in the high IQ department and that the other INTP's are just clueless as to why they feel so outcast.

I've never taken a legitimate IQ test but I am self guesstimating that mine hovers around the 155 range give or take. I know this might be wishful thinking as well but I'm being realistic about it. 135 range just seems too low as people in this range I deem "above average" yet their logic still "pisses me off" sometimes. I've realized that my emotion of getting "pissed off" is actually meaning "frustrated" because I have to explain to someone else in detail what I already know to be true.

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Remember that the SD of the IQ bell curve is 15 points centered on 100, with 95% occupying 2 deviations in each direction. In other words, an IQ of 135 is still considered Mensa justifiable and within the top 2% of the population. Also remember that some tests have sub-tests, so scoring above average in one section can and will significantly lower the score you get, no matter what your other subtests say.

SaiKick said:

When someone proposes a conjecture which I have already theorized and dropped as impossible-- it leads me to believe they are only behind in the race to the solution. My mind is fast and can hold many thoughts simultaneously. My sequential memory is not the best, especially because I smoke so much weed, but my ability to pull pertinent information out of past and current events is unbeatable.

I can instantly make analogies between the most incompatible subjects to elaborate my point and drive it home. The analogies come to me almost in a divine way, as the answer popped into my head. Except, I know the real working mechanism is that my brain can tap itself very easily horizontally, like I have tons of ram, I can process lots of information at once-- but storing that information is another thing.

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Very true, and worded very appropriately aka followable. When thinking of my thought process, I do indeed see it as a computer with loads of ram (most likely 64-bit lol) and a multiple cores. Then there's virtual machines which can mimic the operating system of other people (chameleon anybody?) at the expense of hogging up some of the ram.

On the other hand (still agreeing with you {for some reason realized that i love parenthesis {{or is that parenthesi?}}) it seems like the harddrive is always powered off. so whenever i need to pull up information that isn't stored in the gigs and gigs of ram, it takes a while for the drive to spin up and for the appropriate file/schema/memory/whatever to be found. Making sense still?

Sidenote: you mentioned smoking. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to smoke for 2 months or so, but up until then I was smoking everyday. I found that my horizontal thinking was "overclocked" when high, much to my enjoyment. Being sober has given me the chance to think more linearly, but the increase in this areas is not as marked as the increase in the lateral thinking while stoned. /sidenote

And unfortunately, everyone i run into (with the exception of PerC folks, but I don't technically run into them) is just too slow. Thy're running outdated processors, still on WinXP. Always playing the catch-up game.

Here is where the irony sets in: If everyone is catching up, doesn't that make the one ahead the detriment to the group? Because if you don't intend on leaving everyone behind, which I do quite occasionally when it's obvious the person won't get it or when it won't help to explain, then you have to either wait for them to meet up with you on this metaphorical trail or else you have to back-track in the hopes of showing them the way, but expending your own personal energy. Either way, it's just inefficient.

SaiKick said:

Shen an intuitive turns on his/her "sensing" abilities-- it is impossible to store every external event as a memory. Especially when sensing is new for us and it's like a barrage of info coming at once. We can only filter and process and store what's relevant at the given time.

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Using the computer analogy, I would say it is similar to using just a keyboard and a mouse. You can do everything you need to do with these, yet some people augment them with touchpads, drawing pads, webcams, microphones, etc. These allow for different, and simultaneous input, versus wherever the cursor is located. Maybe that was a good analogy, maybe not.

Attempt #2 at crazy weird analogy: Clicking multiple files in quick succession knowing that they will open as the computer processes them, vs. clicking on them one at a time and waiting for each one to open (N vs. S). Sure, you get the same result, but are they really identical? The first method processes everything simultaneously, but the chances of an error or mis-clicking are significantly higher than the slower but more tried and true method of opening them one at a time. I can think of many times in which I've rapid-fire clicked and dragged and done the whole works only to be disappointed that one of the files I thought I moved 10 or 12 clicks back didn't actually go to the recycle bin.

After typing this last section, I see that it has no bearing to what I quoted, yet is still relevant enough to be included.

Just because other forums posted this as "steam of conscious" doesn't mean you have to continue the stupid error. Aiya.

Noctuloquor said:

Just because other forums posted this as "steam of conscious" doesn't mean you have to continue the stupid error. Aiya.

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I quite like the stream of consciousness aspect. I think it's quite suitable for the INTP forum, as seen in the rambling posts posted thus far.

SaiKick said:

I can instantly make analogies between the most incompatible subjects to elaborate my point and drive it home. The analogies come to me almost in a divine way, as the answer popped into my head. Except, I know the real working mechanism is that my brain can tap itself very easily horizontally, like I have tons of ram, I can process lots of information at once-- but storing that information is another thing.

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Pelao said:

On the other hand it seems like the harddrive is always powered off. so whenever i need to pull up information that isn't stored in the gigs and gigs of ram, it takes a while for the drive to spin up and for the appropriate file/schema/memory/whatever to be found.

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If you've a capacity for lateral thinking and intercomparing various systems/contexts but not so great of a memory, I'd suggest that perhaps you are too young to have properly developed your Introverted Sensing but developed your Introverted Thinking and Extraverted iNtuition quite well. It may also be possible that you're an ENTP who has Introverted Sensing as an inferior trait which isn't passively working. An INTP should be able to use Extraverted iNtuition to quickly make an assessment, use his Introverted Thinking to extemporaneously come up with a response, and call upon his Introverted Sensing to draw upon hindsight or recall relevant details.

I've noticed INFPs can go through a process which superficially resembles ours, but because of their lack of Introverted Sensing they'll often have trouble coming up with their own original insights and have trouble with more subtle distinctions and concept mastery. I've actually had an INFP go to great lengths to mimic me, but relied solely on his Ne and Si to do so; he would use his Ne to spot an opportunity for an interjection or snarky quip and call upon his Introverted Sensing for some canned response. Unfortunately, he would often do things like use words with inappropriate connotation or shoehorn something in — he didn't always have the best judgment when it came to his selection, even though he was able to spot an opportunity.

It actually bewildered me because he tested as an INTP and I recognized his use of the Ne and Si functions, but couldn't understand why he had trouble grasping certain concepts and struggled with nuance. I would imagine an ENTP would resemble an INTP in that they would have excellent use of Ne and Ti, but they wouldn't have seamless access to their Si "hard drive".

Zombie Jesus said:

I quite like the stream of consciousness aspect. I think it's quite suitable for the INTP forum, as seen in the rambling posts posted thus far.

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I'm talking about the phrase "stream of conscious". It's incorrect and makes no sense. The actual idea is fine.

Katmandu said:

If you've a capacity for lateral thinking and intercomparing various systems/contexts but not so great of a memory, I'd suggest that perhaps you are too young to have properly developed your Introverted Sensing but developed your Introverted Thinking and Extraverted iNtuition quite well. It may also be possible that you're an ENTP who has Introverted Sensing as an inferior trait which isn't passively working. An INTP should be able to use Extraverted iNtuition to quickly make an assessment, use his Introverted Thinking to extemporaneously come up with a response, and call upon his Introverted Sensing to draw upon hindsight or recall relevant details.

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thank you for this analysis, I can tell you have well above average understanding of the functions-- and more importantly how the functions relate to real word application; since it's more of my "self reporting" my memory-- it's very likely I'm just not giving myself enough credit; I think it is correct that my introverted Sensing abilities are underdeveloped; I'm 28 and only started paying attention to that half of my brain in the last year or so; only in the last year have I become aware of my creative and feeling side-- very much so; I now have the capacity to feel and communicate as an INFP and often the athletic urges of an ISTP. A lot of my personality flipping can be attributed to ADHD-symptoms, but I'm a hardcore introvert at heart, extremely intuitive, 95% openminded and 70% plus on the Thinking vs feeling factor; but I do believe I have large capacity in the other directions too

I'm interested in how you can quickly recognize the patterns of what is "going on." For example you can tell when your INFP friend is going through the process that "resembles ours." It's interesting how you (and INTP's in general) can be surgically accurate in recognizing a pattern immediately and defining it concisely--

so-- I am interested then, in how an INTP would "mimic" an INFP; the inverse situation of which you mention; you've made me think that I am either often doing this, mimicking an INFP-- what would be an example of mimicked INFP behavior vs real INFP behavior?

SaiKick said:

thank you for this analysis, I can tell you have well above average understanding of the functions-- and more importantly how the functions relate to real word application

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Honestly, I just learned about the functions just recently. But I believe I have a pretty good approach when it comes to learning and was fascinated by the functions.

I'm 28 and only started paying attention to that half of my brain in the last year or so; only in the last year have I become aware of my creative and feeling side-- very much so

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It's quite possible you've simply squandered your potential by depending too heavily on your first two functions, or maybe you just recognize the Si process but see how it pales in comparison to your mastery of Si.

I'm in my early twenties and didn't learn to really utilize my Fe function until a couple of years ago, either. I would say an INTP really needs to have the proper conditions to flourish; he needs to pursue his own interests and be self-motivated, then he'll naturally have questions and his curiosity will serve as an impetus. If you really find something which intrigues you, you'll use your Ne to gather information, use your Ti function to play with it like Legos, then go back out searching for more little pieces because you've an idea what you need next for your structure — it's a self-perpetuating cycle which will continue until there's no more mystery left and interest wanes.

There may be some unproductive stretches or times where you have to deal with bothersome practical concerns, but if you want to continue to grow then you need to find a new abstraction in which to envelop yourself. When an INTP has genuine interest in a subject, he'll make inexorable progress until he's sated his curiosity.

so-- I am interested then, in how an INTP would "mimic" an INFP; the inverse situation of which you mention; you've made me think that I am either often doing this, mimicking an INFP-- what would be an example of mimicked INFP behavior vs real INFP behavior?

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Well, the INFP could copy things he's seen or read and store it into his Si for later use. You could likely memorize certain behavioral patterns and phrases, spot an opportunity with your Ne to react in a way you think an INFP would — in this case, it would likely be making a value judgment, which could possibly be replicated with the Ti process — which would entail tapping into your Si's store of memorized shibboleths and affectations. The problem is that it may come across as contrived, but thankfully, as I understand it, individuals with Fi seem to be somewhat stolid and NT-like in their lack of outward expression, so it may be possible to pull off. Replicating an Fe process would require natural fluidity — I'd hazard you'd need to rehearse quite a bit, and even then may not be able to achieve a level of sprezzatura to be convincing.

So, I would guess the process of imitating an INFP would look like this:
- scrutinize a statement
- rather than be ambivalent or indecisive, take a side and make a judgment about this
- be consistent with your assumed value system and always see if something is in line with it
- look for opportunities to point out hypocrisy or tergiversations
- be judgmental; your Fi would feel a certain way about something which isn't congruent with your beliefs, and your inferior Te may make you want to take control of your environment to impose this value system, as people can be "wrong" and reproof is in order
- remember that you're constantly struggling with internal turmoil because you have strong views about how the way the world should be… and, of course, it isn't that way

You may also want to study INFP subjects for quite some time.

I'm not entirely sure why you would want to do something like this, but I don't mind entertaining hypotheticals.

Katmandu said:

Honestly, I just learned about the functions just recently. But I believe I have a pretty good approach when it comes to learning and was fascinated by the functions.

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How did you learn it?

Chrysantheist said:

How did you learn it?

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I glanced over the cognitive processes site (Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes) and extrapolated the implications of these processes in my own mind. I was really interested in it, and so I kept coming up with hypotheses and tested these hypotheses by seeing what matched theory and observation. I also drew upon my memories to analyze things I've observed for a retrospective interpretation of these patterns, fitting them into the framework of the Jung/MBTI theory. I also tend to think about these things throughout the day, so I'm always "working on" it, so to speak; I'm a space cadet who'll just go through the motions to get through the day, but my mind is always someplace else.

This is a non-lexical explanation, but you should be able to see for yourself how this could be explained by the INTP functions. I'd actually advise you do this if you wish to gain an better understanding — as an INTP, it would behoove you to take an active, non-linear approach to learning, following your own intuition.

Noctuloquor said:

I'm talking about the phrase "stream of conscious". It's incorrect and makes no sense. The actual idea is fine.

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Damn. I didn't even notice. I just read the meaning and not the spelling...

Katmandu said:

You may also want to study INFP subjects for quite some time.

I'm not entirely sure why you would want to do something like this, but I don't mind entertaining hypotheticals.

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I spent the years after college, 22-28 working as a commercial real estate salesperson and also starting my own business. The salesperson experience was extremely tough initially. As you can imagine, being an INTP and being forced to mingle and build rapport did not come naturally-- but this experience is responsible for my inverse INTP-abilities: sensing & feeling. I had to immediately "sense" over the phone what was going on with the person and respond immediately w/ feeling or else I'd get hung up on.Then I had to sell myself in person to get the deal...

I have found that my raw potential personality plus my new found passion for healing would make me a great therapist. I am considering going back to school for a psychology degree (or two) or maybe just jumping into a field where I can start making use of my skills immediately-- like a fringe spirituality based psychoanalysis where heavy degrees and licensure is not required.

I'm more of a hardcore INTP who is very empathic. I am very in tune to others' emotions and I'm more able to respond with tact and care for others' feelings than before. As I have matured, I have valued "being right" less and less, and I am valuing "getting along" more and more. This is besides the point.

to answer your question-- I believe a good therapist should possess the deductive abilities of an INTP-- but should also possess the empathy and people skills of an INFP. My INTP skills are honed very well since I've had a lifetime to practice them; but I am only recently learning the art of communicating with feeling; I'd rather not act like I'm "pretending"-- but often a skill comes with emulation until it becomes second nature; for example, I kind of hate people in general-- yet building rapport is almost automatic if I'm in a group setting. I can temporarily become an extravert if the situation calls for it, but I will be drained afterwards-- I will still put on a good show for everyone though! i guess because I am an entertainer at heart.

so, i'm kind of stuck at a turning point in my life/career but I am very drawn to being a healer now-- as previously was entrepreneu-ing